27 replies to this topic

[Red October911]

I had heard that when the BattleTech universe was created, they based their factions off of real world countries. Is this true?

I've heard:

Davion= North america

Steiner= Western europe

FFR= Norway/sweden/finland

Those i'm not sure:

Liao= communist states

Kurita= Japan

Marik:???? Eastern europe? Middle East?

Clans:???? Maybe just a BattleTech specific faction w/o connection to the real world

Just curious about all this and would like to get some knowledge on BT lore

Edited by Red October911, 22 December 2014 - 09:56 AM.

[Brody319]

Liao - china.
FRR - space vikings

[KraftySOT]

No, no, no, no, and no.

But youre almost right:

Davion = southern Holy Roman Empire states
Steiner = The Hansetic League, northern HRE states, electors, and cardinals
Laio = Ming dynasty
Kurita = Shogunate east Asia
Marik = Eastern Empire, Byzantium, with a little French and Arabic influence, (Ottoman, Grenada)
FRR = Kalmar Union
Clans = Mongol hordes, white, red, golden, blue, and timurs hordes are pretty much by color, their respective factions within it
Comstar = Vatican, seat of the HRE

They were all mostly history and poly sci majors.

Edited by KraftySOT, 22 December 2014 - 10:00 AM.

[Rhaythe]

All Relative during the Clan Invasions:

Davion - "Western" culture ruled by a man that promised the destruction of another Great House as a wedding present to his bride.

Steiner - "Western" culture that married off its leader to Davion to merge both houses into one powerhouse.

Kurita - "Eastern" Japanese culture that still practices the Bushido code and believes fervently in honor. The Yakuza are still alive and well and piloting mechs. People commit sepuku when they fail too hard.

Liao - Buncha nutcases. I'd put them more along the lines of North Korea than China.

Marik - Marshal law state. Pretty sure everyone in power expects to be overthrown in short order.

Comstar - Vatican City, essentially

[KraftySOT]

^ not correct, but hitting some points.

The Davion line is actually based on the Ferdinand line, that started in 1503, and ruled Austria for a considerably time until the Hapsburgs (with some others strewn in)

The Steiner line is based on the Albert line, from Bavaria, that put up a few popes.

Everyone also has famous names. Hans Davion to Anastacious Focht.

The real Focht served under Napoleon. The real Hans Davion, was a Landsheken Mercenacy captain.

Edited by KraftySOT, 22 December 2014 - 10:05 AM.

[KraftySOT]

And of course Kerensky was the general of the White forces during the Russian Revolution.

The FedCom civil war is based on the War of the Roses...

Extra points if anyone knows what Btech conflict represents the Hundred Years War and the Seven Years War.

And super duper awesome bad ass points if you can tell me what Word of Blake represents. (Hint, its NOT Martin Luther and the reformation, which seems like it would be.)

Edited by KraftySOT, 22 December 2014 - 10:16 AM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Davion is largely Franco-British.

Steiner is mostly Germanic but with some Irish minorities.

FRR is Scandinavian.

Kurita is Japanese and Arab.

Liao is Sino-Russian.

Marik is an odd combination of the Balkans and the United States (if the US Civil War had gone differently and led to a weaker union with a militarized presidency).

[Bishop Steiner]

KraftySOT, on 22 December 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

And of course Kerensky was the general of the White forces during the Russian Revolution.

The FedCom civil war is based on the War of the Roses...

Extra points if anyone knows what Btech conflict represents the Hundred Years War and the Seven Years War.

And super duper awesome bad ass points if you can tell me what Word of Blake represents. (Hint, its NOT Martin Luther and the reformation, which seems like it would be.)

one thing to keep in mind, is that some are compound analogues, drawing from more than one real life inspiration.

As for the Martin Luther and Reformation thing, people look to the Jihad as an Islamic inspired thing (and it might have seeds based in it, form modern context) but the Jihad tactics were very much practiced by many reformed branches such as the Calvinists.

The holy wars of the Middle Ages were anything but holy.

I honestly always felt the Succession Wars (specifically the 3rd) were at least somewhat based off the 100 year war...whole lot of sword rattling and dying..not a lot actually being accomplished, lol. Though in General, I always assumed the Analogue for the Succession Wars to be based more on the Fall of the Roman Empire, period, and rise of European "Powers", etc. With the Mongol horde being the Clans invading just when some degree so "stability" was being achieved.

Can't say, despite my history buff nature to have tried too hard to connect them.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 December 2014 - 10:34 AM.

[KraftySOT]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

one thing to keep in mind, is that some are compound analogues, drawing from more than one real life inspiration.

As for the Martin Luther and Reformation thing, people look to the Jihad as an Islamic inspired thing (and it might have seeds based in it, form modern context) but the Jihad tactics were very much practiced by many reformed branches such as the Calvinists.

The holy wars of the Middle Ages were anything but holy.

I knew you'd win teh points.

Tried to trick people with the WoB thing. The Jihad is absolutely based on the Reformation, not the Islamic wars of the same century, crafty writers they are...at times. WoB originally represents this:

http://en.wikipedia....ter-Reformation

Then gets to play the Reformation 20 years later. I think thats just brilliant.

And yeah many people are a culmination of several real world figures. They tried to find like people across several generations. Like Kerensky both representing the Great Khan, AND the Terror of the Crimea.

Both were like minded generals, who both threatened from the eastern "uncivilized" provinces.

And down in Skye, the Jacobins are rattling their sabers again..

[KraftySOT]

Farnese and his campaign against the Dutch Calvinist revolt, is the inspiration for the Word of Blake specifically.

http://en.wikipedia....,_Duke_of_Parma

Theres your Jerome Blake. Leading his conservative army against the Calvinists reformers. Trying to return to the theocratical and pious ways of the church.

It was pure brilliance to shake up the power dynamic there. To make Waterly the "old pope" and Focht the reformer. To switch the roles of the reformation.

"What if the entire HRE reformed, instead of the reformers." Played out in a space opera.

Edited by KraftySOT, 22 December 2014 - 10:33 AM.

[KraftySOT]

And I think youre correct about the 3rd Succession War and the 100 Years war. It seems very obvious given the context. Same with the first Succession War being the 7 years war. Everyone who was someone was involved, it was short, and extremely violent.

And it resulted in the Treaty of Paris that spefically dealt with...you guessed it...conventions of warfare, namely poisoning towns during sieges and the operations of invading armies in seiges...sound alot like the Ares Convention?

Before the Napoleonic wars, the 7 years war was the most devastating in human history, with upwards of 3 million dead, combat and civilian. Which at the time, was....a heck of alot of people.

Edited by KraftySOT, 22 December 2014 - 10:42 AM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

one thing to keep in mind, is that some are compound analogues, drawing from more than one real life inspiration.

As for the Martin Luther and Reformation thing, people look to the Jihad as an Islamic inspired thing (and it might have seeds based in it, form modern context) but the Jihad tactics were very much practiced by many reformed branches such as the Calvinists.

The holy wars of the Middle Ages were anything but holy.

I honestly always felt the Succession Wars (specifically the 3rd) were at least somewhat based off the 100 year war...whole lot of sword rattling and dying..not a lot actually being accomplished, lol. Though in General, I always assumed the Analogue for the Succession Wars to be based more on the Fall of the Roman Empire, period, and rise of European "Powers", etc. With the Mongol horde being the Clans invading just when some degree so "stability" was being achieved.

Can't say, despite my history buff nature to have tried too hard to connect them.

You're not thinking early enough. The Succession Wars are based on the real-world Succession Wars, the Diadochi, who followed in the wake of Alexander the Great. You went from a single, unified government to a half dozen much smaller but much more prideful successors, with a series of unending wars that only came to a close when Rome intervened (usually either in retaliation or by invitation).

[Fishbulb333]

I've never really paid all that much attention to BT lore to be honest, as far as I'm concerned it's world war II, in space, with robots + lasers.

[Brody319]

Fishbulb333, on 22 December 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

I've never really paid all that much attention to BT lore to be honest, as far as I'm concerned it's world war II, in space, with robots + lasers.

Its just giant robots shooting each other for no real reason. I guess thats why so many of my suggestions break lore because I'm just looking at it from a gameplay standpoint and not so much the "lore-zi" side of things.

[KraftySOT]

Teh lore is deep though. Thats why this IP persists.

Otherwise it would have gone the way of Shadowrun, or Rifts.

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 22 December 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

You're not thinking early enough. The Succession Wars are based on the real-world Succession Wars, the Diadochi, who followed in the wake of Alexander the Great. You went from a single, unified government to a half dozen much smaller but much more prideful successors, with a series of unending wars that only came to a close when Rome intervened (usually either in retaliation or by invitation).

Thats an interesting theory I havent heard before. Ill have to check that out.

[Bishop Steiner]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 22 December 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

You're not thinking early enough. The Succession Wars are based on the real-world Succession Wars, the Diadochi, who followed in the wake of Alexander the Great. You went from a single, unified government to a half dozen much smaller but much more prideful successors, with a series of unending wars that only came to a close when Rome intervened (usually either in retaliation or by invitation).

similar governmental diaspora happened many times over the the centuries.

The descent into utter chaos of the Succession Wars is much more analogous to the descent to utter barbarity of the Dark Ages, (replete with their legendary saviour figures like Charlemagne and Arthur), and the eventual, slow grind back that led to the eventual Renaissance (the Republic of the Sphere), all the way through the eventual strengthening and relative stagnation of the various realms, the increase of lost knowledge being fought by Comstar (much as the Roman Catholic Church did it's best to destroy knowledge in the hands of the masses), the the late middle ages when realms were "stable" but then faced the outside invader, the Mongols, that none could initially beat back. Aka, the Clans.

Heck, the Roman expansion is closer to the Reunification wars than Alexanders raids were.

The Hellenic Diaspora of Alexander's 4 generals really does not have many of the other hallmarks seen in the Battletech storyline.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 December 2014 - 11:22 AM.

[CycKath]

KraftySOT, on 22 December 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

Teh lore is deep though. Thats why this IP persists.

Otherwise it would have gone the way of Shadowrun, or Rifts.

You do know that Shadowrun distressingly/depressingly outsells BattleTech by a wide margin nowadays right?

[KraftySOT]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

similar governmental diaspora happened over the the centuries.

The descent into utter chaos of the Succession Wars is much more analogous to the descent to utter barbarity of the Dark Ages, (replete with their legendary saviour figures like Charlemagne and Arthur), and the eventual, slow grind back that led to the eventual Renaissance (the Republic of the Sphere), all the way through the eventual strengthening and relative stagnation of the various realms, the increase of lost knowledge being fought by Comstar (much as the Roman Catholic Church did it's best to destroy knowledge in the hands of the masses), the the late middle ages when realms were "stable" but then faced the outside invader, the Mongols, that none could initially beat back. Aka, the Clans.

Yeah thats pretty much who ive seen it, forevers. I was just out of the army and using my college money at UCLA, doing political science and history and reading about the same things, when I really got into the lore of Btech. I had played it for a few years and not thought much about it. Then the clans were about to happen and that intrigued me. Then I noticed names in the books and canon that I was reading about in classes.

Then it was on like donkey kong.

[Bishop Steiner]

Brody319, on 22 December 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

Its just giant robots shooting each other for no real reason. I guess thats why so many of my suggestions break lore because I'm just looking at it from a gameplay standpoint and not so much the "lore-zi" side of things.

and thus you are doomed to failure, sith lord!

[KraftySOT]

CycKath, on 22 December 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

You do know that Shadowrun distressingly/depressingly outsells BattleTech by a wide margin nowadays right?

Yes and no. Its also an issue with the statistics gathering. Shadowrun, all the money is currently going to one company. Btech stuff is still split up across quite a few.

Buy a Ral Partha...it still goes to Ral Partha.

Actual shadowrun "stuff" is pretty scarce besides rule books. Which outsell CBT rule books.

Thats really all thats tracked.