104 replies to this topic

[LordKnightFandragon]

Viktor Drake, on 23 December 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

The thing is, your still basing everything on your opinion of how the numbers translate.

Lets look at the IS standard PPC vs the Clan ER PPC. At out to 540m I think, the IS PPC is clearly the better weapon. While it doesn't have the extra 5 damage spreading, as a pin point damage tool, it equals the Clan ER PPC in every way plus it is massively cooler.

Then when you consider that most combat takes place in the 200-500m range, you quickly find that the IS standard PPC is clearly the PPC to choose in the vast majority of combat situations in the game. Also because it is so much cooler than the Clan ER PPC, even though it weighs more than the Clan ER PPC, the Clan ER PPC requires significantly more tonnage devoted to DHS to bring them down to the same levels of heat. Overall when your talking total tonnage invested including taking into account heat management, the Clan ER PPC requires significantly more tonnage despite the weapon itself being lighter.

The point is you have to step beyond the numbers and evaluate based on the actual combat environment and when you do that, aside from a very few specific circumstances, Clan weapons barely hold their own against IS weapons, especially now that IS mechs are quirked to hell and back to make those weapons even better.

Just more reason it needs to be a 15/15 weapon. There is jsut absolutely no rhyme or reason to take it otherwise. That 2.5/2.5 spread is absolutely meaningless in the big picture.

CErPPC might be an unlimited ammo Gauss Rifle, but you cant fire it as much as the Gauss Rifle. After just a few blasts your forced to stop and cool off, which in some situations puts you at a serious disadvantage in the middle of a brawl or something.
about the only mechs in game that could mount enough CErPPC and DHS to make them seem at all OP would be the WHK and the DWF. Even a Timby trying to mount like 3 would be so hot it wouldnt really be worth it.

So PGI bring on the 15/15 CERPPC.

[The Boz]

Metus regem, on 23 December 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

But what happens to your definition of "apple" once the IS-ERML come in? Then we have a true apple to apple, IS-ERML 1ton 1slot vs cERML 1ton 1slot... The IS-ML would be a pear to keep up with the fruit metaphors, as it has no direct clan counter part, I would put it in a different category, giving it a blue box in all sections rather than mostly red against the cERML, that it is seeing currently.

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Sure, let's keep the game out of balance for eight more years (do you really think it'll last eight more years?).
Cross the IS ERML bridge when we get to it. Any thing else is dangerously close to the "it's not identical, so it can't be compared" idiocy.

DarthRevis, on 23 December 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

And what do we have? 1 or 2 mechs that can that do that? So because a few mechs can carry a ERPPC in the CT that makes the OP over the IS one? and worthy of making a chart to show how butt hurt you are about it?

I never said it was OP because of this. I said that it is a distinct advantage over the IS counterpart. If you think the IS ERPPC is superior to the C-ERPPC because of the two mechs that are quirked out the wazoo for it, then you must consider the C-ERPPC superior because of the two mechs that can chest-mount it, too.

Shar Wolf, on 23 December 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

Ah - so you are looking to start an argument - rather than actually try to discuss it.
As there are FAR more polite ways to start it up otherwise - rather than trying to begin it by mocking the other person.

Brilliant.

How the hell is questioning someone's bias mocking?! Is this something like "you disagree, therefor you are oppressing me"?

[The Boz]

KuroNyra, on 23 December 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

There is multiple way to see the Clans mech.

1. You only take the Stormcrow, the Timber Wolf and the Dire Wolf who are all doing very fine. (The Stormcrow is even better in my eyes than the Timber Wolf)
Completly forgeting the rest. Here, the Clans are "OP" (OLOLOLZ)

2. You only look at the others and then, you see that some of them are performing... Let's say they hold there ground.

Most people agree there is still work to do to balance them. But where some idiots want to see them all nerfed to death even since the recent quircks of the Inner Sphere. The other (and only real possible) solution would be to give the Clans also there own kind of quircks making them more viable...

Same could be said about IS mechs.

1. You only take The Quirkening metamechs who are all doing very fine. Completely forgeting the rest. Here, the IS mechs are "OP" (OLOLOLZ)

2. You only look at the others and then, you see some of them are performing... really really bad?

I never said "NERF ALL THE CLAM!" Ever. If you think i did, your reading comprehension is faulty.
The two things I maintain are "don't buff non-holy trinity clams to holy trinity levels" and "nerf the holy trinity".

[Demuder]

Hillslam, on 23 December 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

[/size]Tell me, what did you hate more: saying 8 is less than 11, or using colors?

[size=4]

Uhm, I must be not that smart, because I don't get either of that. I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with refuting my points though. I guess it's one of those threads that the original poster creates so that he can get a chance to troll the people spending time to reply. Meh.

Or, in the parallel universe you live in - you know, the one where cohesion of data sample, data analysis, statistical methodology and integrity, even simple understanding of addition and subtraction, etc, etc are a lost, mystical art - those are funny.

Edited by Demuder, 24 December 2014 - 02:04 AM.

[KuroNyra]

The Boz, on 23 December 2014 - 11:18 PM, said:

Same could be said about IS mechs.

1. You only take The Quirkening metamechs who are all doing very fine. Completely forgeting the rest. Here, the IS mechs are "OP" (OLOLOLZ)

2. You only look at the others and then, you see some of them are performing... really really bad?


3. I never said "NERF ALL THE CLAM!" Ever. If you think i did, your reading comprehension is faulty.
The two things I maintain are "don't buff non-holy trinity clams to holy trinity levels" and "nerf the holy trinity".

1. Surely you must see the stupidity of this. Yet thats what whiners use to claims Clans are OP.

2. But here, thanks to the quircks, there situation is much better than it used to be. Just look at the Locust. You see plenty of them now.

3. And that's where you got it completly wrong. Mechs like the Ice Ferret, the Mist Lynx or the Summoner NEED some help if you want them (but IF you want them, wich is not the case apparently) to be efficient on the battlefields in his globality. Wich is not the case for them.

The Holy Trinity need some change, especially for the Stormcrow, the Timber Wolf is that dangerous once you know the beast (but you have to bought it in order to know it... Something you did not do.) and the Dire Wolf is already fine, his firepower is part of the Lore, that mech was intended from the start to be a dreaded mech in the battlefield, that's why they are constantly focus and attacked by everyone. Let's not talk about the fact they are LRMS juicy targets.


The Timber Wolf need some slight rework.
The Stormcrow need some big ones.
The Dire Wolf is already nerfed by itself.

But again, you must know theses mech in order to know how to fight them, and that include the fact you muse bought them. And if guys like you refuse to use what a guy said, don't be surprised to being constantly rap3d.

Quote

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
TD;LR: Know the ennemy and his capacity, and know yourself. This way, you will kick some shining metal @ss.
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

In every game, there has been balance problem. But in every game there also has been situation like this where you had a group constantly wanting to nerf stuff they did not possess, and each freaking time one of them bought the "OP stuff" in question. He soon realised that the thing is not has dangerous he thought it was and from that moment knew how to destroy it with less difficultys.


It happened in War Thunder, World of Tank, Hawken, Star Trek Online, in also already happened in MWO during the CBT.
Heck, even in MW Living Legend.


If you have problem to deal with a particular opponent, get the said opponent and learn his capacity. You will be much more efficient against it.



I know that the Dire Wolf is incredibly slow and I have to avoid front contact against it by anymean necessary. And if I cannot, I must use my usually superior agility and speed to get him in dangerous position, even if that include sacrifice myself.

Make him turn away from your allies -this way he give his back to your allies.- And that's just one of the things you can do against it.




I know the Timber Wolf usually got hotbuild and that his weapons tend to spread the damage. That is why I always let him attack first when I am in a comparable mech able to survive him with no real troubles. Then it depend on the skill and you have to make each attack count. And spread the damage the best you can when he's attacking. Of course, try to stay away when he is boating SRM. But the same can be said about the splatcatapult.
And when is got LRMS. Get the closer you can, his LRMS deal almost not damage and if he is stupid enought to use them. He will build tremendous heat and you will be likely to see him overheat and shut down.

For the stormcrow, I did not have really troubles to deal with them. Call that BS. I call that impression, I'm usually the one standing up at the end of the battle. (Only to be rap3d by the Locust who sneaked on my butt after that... I stopped to count how many times it has happened.... Nerf Locust?)


But all the others Clans mech, I have 0 problem to deal with them and I am in fact sorry to fight them. X')
Using my Quickdraw I have no fear of facing a Summoner, in my Centurion or My Hunchback I have no worries when facing a Nova.
(and when in a Light IS vs a Light Clan... I have an evil smile popping in my face. The amount of Mist Lynx, Adder and Kit Fox killed... Brrrrrrr.... I almost feel guilty.)
I won't left the combat unscratched, but I am usually sur that no matter the outcome, my opponent will be has good has dead. (Usually the later)

Edited by KuroNyra, 24 December 2014 - 04:21 AM.