47 replies to this topic

[CDLord HHGD]

I ran my crow as an LRM striker with 1 LL in the CT and NARC. It was brutal.

I ran my nova almost stock, swapped three MLs in each arm for SLs which gave me better sustained fire.

Both mechs were mastered in less than a week. Both mechs are fine. Just gotta play them differently.

[Crotch RockIt]

The Nova doesn't need Endo, Ferro, or optional JJ. While helpful for the Nova, it would be bad for the game and set a bad precedent. Omnimechs are built differently than IS mechs. Deal with it and move on.

What the Nova desperately needs is laser quirks. The Prime CT should get -30% heat generation for ERML (-15% for general energy weapons), and the C variant should get -30% heat generation for ERMPL (-15% for general energy weapons), and the B variant should get -20% heat generation for general energy weapons. The percentages can be tweaked after testing, but this is a good start.

[Fate 6]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 December 2014 - 04:12 AM, said:

You people say this like it is some kind of epiphany! The fact that a Stormcrow is better than a Nova is over 2 decades old. Welcome to the 80s kids!

If ghost heat didn't exist the Nova would be on the same level. As it is now already I can 1v1 basically any mech in the game with my Nova, it has the highest DPS of any mech I've seen.

[That Dawg]

mechanically I dont think ghost heat is being applied the same across the board.
i'll break out the stop watch, caustic valley, and both mechs if I can come up with something standardized

[Fate 6]

Unfortunately PGI has basically proclaimed their hate for anything that boats one weapon, and the Nova is exactly that by default. It's just not going to be useful until they make it able to withstand firing more than 6 lasers at a time without instantly overheating.

Possible changes:
-Quirk that removes its ghost heat
-Quirks that increase heat dissipation/reduce heat generation
-Quirks that massively increase small laser effectiveness (range, dissipation, more range)
-Quirk to increase JJ jump distance
-Quirk to increase speed (like Summoner)

This is a mech that should be a skirmisher, but because it's not as fast as some other mechs and can't even alpha strike it just falls short.

[Ultimax]

That Dawg, on 23 December 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

mechanically I dont think ghost heat is being applied the same across the board.
i'll break out the stop watch, caustic valley, and both mechs if I can come up with something standardized

I think you first should tell us what it is you are trying to test, because I'm convinced most posters don't actually understand what Ghost Heat is or what it does. It's like a boogie man at this point.

[Revis Volek]

I love my Nova's! Had a great 3 kill, 750dmg game in it last night before bed! My two fav builds are the 5xMG and 6x ER Med laser build (Prime (I)) or my B which has 6x Er Med (3 on each arm) and 4 Er Sm Lasers (2 on each arm) as well as 4x Mg's.

Its a shredder! If i see an assault with its back to me after i hit them with an 82 pt alpha they fall down! HARD!

The Nopeva is more of a sideline hunter and mid range sniper....they dont brawl well due to being HUGE! They also dont spread dmg well since its all arms and legs until they get blown off. The Stormcrow can be the exact opposite but can actually fill many roles due to the FF and Endo options and having the speed to be more versatile.

But yea...Blackhawks are for Nostalgia purposes in this game lol.

Edited by DarthRevis, 23 December 2014 - 10:26 AM.

[Roadkill]

33% vs 37% heat efficiency (per Smurfy) is a huge difference for a laser vomit build. I normally try to keep mine above 40%... 37% is very borderline to me. 33% definitely falls below the "hot" line.

[verybad]

*meh* if the Nova eventually gets some even minor quirks helping it in lasers it's;; be nasty *shrugs*

[Ultimax]

Roadkill, on 23 December 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

33% vs 37% heat efficiency (per Smurfy) is a huge difference for a laser vomit build. I normally try to keep mine above 40%... 37% is very borderline to me. 33% definitely falls below the "hot" line.

Even the typicaly TBR version runs at 37%.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1904846ff168c9d

All laser vomit builds are very hot builds.


If the Nova had Endo and Ferro it would lose 14 slots, with 6x CERMLAS 1 Lower Arm & Hand Actuator, you'd hit a limit of about 20 total DHS (no targeting comp) anyway due to 5 slots already going to JJs.


Endo and Ferro would give you more tonnage, but you'd be hard pressed to do much with it with just CERMLAS and would need to swap in heavier weapons (which also cost more heat to fire, thus lowering efficiency)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...320fcaabb2f93d9

That's roughly what it would look like (imagining the empty slots as endo/ff), except you'd have even more tonnage you'd need to figure out how to use, Likely 1 CLPL or 1CERLLAS swap in for one of the CERMLAS.

Either way, you're efficiency with a Laser Vomit build would still hit a wall of about 38%.


All of that extra tonnage is best devoted to a bigger engine, which you can't change on the Nova anyway - but is exactly what the SCR and TBR end up with for their weight savings.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 23 December 2014 - 01:11 PM.

[Zordicron]

How to fix:

Add quirks that negate or nearly so the JJ heat for the Nova. This way there is no breaking of the standard for fixed JJ on the clans, but that bit of heat(actually a lot when you use the JJ in a fight) would certainly help, and hey! we made a new quirk that can be used on any JJ mech we want PGI! BONUS.

More omnipods. A major part of any underachiever mech on the theorycraft forums is lack of ability to fit weapon systems players want to use, or feel comfy using. I am OK with some mechs not fitting into some roles( IMO it should be that way) and even some being better then others with similar loadouts. but I doubt having a missile pod on ech arm would kill any balance. ECM Nova would also make it a tempting addition to a CW deck then over a crow, all else being similar.

Crows have broken hitbox. Like Spiders, but bigger. Somehow, arms take dmg when you shoot them in the guts, legs take dmg when you hit them in the arms, etc. HSR and PING affect this, but outside spiders and FS9, I can;t think of another mech besides the Crow that is as bad at hitbox shinanigans. As such is the case, comparing durability to a crow is sort of moot. Looking at the Nova of it's own performance without looking at it's neighbors is a better idea. IMO, only arms and legs on a Nova has any issue.

Buff Nova arm armor, first by a little. then evaluate, and see if people still grip about being disarmed so easily.

Reduce the fall dmg some how, to allow more height from the JJ without taking leg dmg. IMO, the Nova is right on that line where the JJ can be really useful for getting around and more importantly- escaping- but you take leg dmg, and combined with inherent dmg taken from enemy fire as you jump on legs(because that is the reality, people hit your legs more when you are flying through the air) the JJ quikly become a liability on the mech.

TL;DR- quirks to remove JJ heat, fall dmg, and buff arm armor in stages. Add some more pods for some flex in loadouts available, just nothing crazy like allowing Nova missile boats etc.

Edited by Eldagore, 23 December 2014 - 01:22 PM.

[Roadkill]

Ultimatum X, on 23 December 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

Even the typicaly TBR version runs at 37%.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1904846ff168c9d

All laser vomit builds are very hot builds.

Yes, and that's a borderline build to me also. Like I said, I try to keep mine above 40%. But then I have no trigger discipline and fire repeatedly even when I shouldn't.

4 x MPL, 2 x SPL, and an ER Large runs 40%.

[Escef]

zortesh, on 22 December 2014 - 11:49 PM, said:

Or remove the forced jumpjets....

5 extra heatsinks would help any nova to an amazing degree............

You're not getting 5 sinks by removing 2.5 tons of jets.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Ultimatum X, on 22 December 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

The primary differences are:

• Model Size
  
• Hitboxes
  
• Speed/Agility

And here you hit the nail on the head. Since MWO is pretty much a FPS, these factors are really more important than even hard points. I mean you can have a seriously bad hard point config on a mech but if the model, hitboxes and mobility are good, that mech is going to be a standout winner.

In the case of the Nova is is a huge model that happens to have a very easy to identify and hit CT which makes them squishy also because they are so big, the hit boxes are bigger and thus easier to concentrate damage on or really just accidentally hit where on mechs like the Stormcrow, shots just miss. The lack of agility is another factor. Nova has a very small engine and in MWO engine size is directly tied to a mechs agility and torso twist.

So at the end of the day, Nova started with two things going for it. Jump Jets and firepower. Then they nerfed the JJ so that they perform about 1/2 as good on a Nova as they did when it first came out, then they upped the heat on all the lasers making you have to cut 20% or more of your firepower on the Nova or cook yourself. End result is a mech that is massively subpar.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Nova is definitely a tricky ******* to play.

I still think when it comes down to it, its the scale of the mech that is screwing it over.

Comparing the Nova geometry to the Stormcrow.. thats a stretch.

The stormcrow is nice and tight for RT/LT/CT, you can spread damage easily, and its arms are tall and shield well, you'll lose the arms fast, but your torso's will remain relatively in tact to keep fighting.

SC's one good weakness is same as most clan mechs, and that is legs.

Now the Nova, because of its inflated scale and the separation of its legs in the MWO design of the mech, the thing ended up being much wider than it should have, each section of the mech is also easily distinguishable and easy to focus on which makes the Nova even easier to hack apart, especially the arms and Dragon like CT.

The nova needs to have those extra Discs that attach its arms to the torso removed, as well as the discs on its Legs where it connects to the hip, which wouldn't require an entire Rescale of the model but just some clever editing of what exists there already.

Next problem up for the Nova is the JJ's, they're good to get where you're going, but you really can't use them in a fight because they nullify your heatsinks, even with 20 or 21 DHS, if you burn your 5 jets, you completely stop cooling down.

With regards to FF and Endo, I guess it would be nice to load some heavier weapons on it, PPC's would be a good candidate, but for its primary load of ERML or ERMPL, adding in crit slots will just restrict your DHS count, Nova is stuck between a rock and a hard place for what builds would even be viable for it.

With Endo and FF available, maybe some UAC builds would open up, and that could be good, but it does pull away from its novelty as an Energy boat.

I've found that if you just play your range, you can do well in the Nova, stay out of brawls, keep your distance and just keep pecking at your enemies and it does a pretty decent job.

Its a great ranger, just with poor hitboxes and layout.

Edited by Mister D, 23 December 2014 - 02:29 PM.

[Shredhead]

How about you try real 5 MPL builds? 6 is way too much anyway, even for Loki and Mad Cat:
Crow
Nova
Less HS in the arms of the Nova, because they get shot off so easily; also use the one torso crit slot for at least a bit of zombie capability.
With the Crow you have to watch out to get at least one Lower Arm Actuator, else you'll have no arm movement.

[Ultimax]

Roadkill, on 23 December 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

Yes, and that's a borderline build to me also. Like I said, I try to keep mine above 40%. But then I have no trigger discipline and fire repeatedly even when I shouldn't.

4 x MPL, 2 x SPL, and an ER Large runs 40%.

Well, the efficiency % assumes you will fire everything all the time - which I don't really recommend with any laser vomit build.

But as you said, you're a bit trigger happy so you're probably better off building around that.

[Kraegor]

Nova with 12 Small Pulse Lasers. 6 on each mouse button.

30 point pinpoint on each press. you can do it 3-4 times without overheating (less than 3 seconds)

120 pinpoint in 3 seconds is pretty damn good.

But hey, what do I know?

Assault backs are -not- safe from my Nova.

Edited by Kraegor, 24 December 2014 - 01:26 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Kraegor, on 24 December 2014 - 01:25 AM, said:

Nova with 12 Small Pulse Lasers. 6 on each mouse button.

30 point pinpoint on each press. you can do it 3-4 times without overheating (less than 3 seconds)

120 pinpoint in 3 seconds is pretty damn good.

But hey, what do I know?

Assault backs are -not- safe from my Nova.

36; they got a damage buff.



Now, try getting within 200M with a mech that big, that slow, which all the weapons are in gigantic low hanging arms.
I've done it, but it takes lots of patience and luck.

[That Dawg]

Maybe a trailer hitch, with a 4" ball, so you could trailer enough heat sinks behind it.
JCWhitney 3050 catalog

I like the suggestion about the -30% quirk heat reduction