614 replies to this topic

[Neutron IX]

MaddMaxx, on 12 November 2011 - 06:40 AM, said:

I can only add, that if the Neurohelmet was the means by which a pilot viewed the battlefield (360 < 160) then why did almost every Mech have a clear view port (windshield) to actually look out of using their EYES? Here is excerpt about a helmet.

But not every mech did have this nice wide open clear viewport, and certainly not every mech that did have one had one created the equal of some others.

Yes, it is clearly established that some mechs have ferro-glass canopies that are not unlike what we see in modern attack helicopters, but it is equally true that there are many that according to lore/fluff, have very small viewports with very limited field of view. How do these mechs function on an equal footing with their counterparts?

I would suggest it is because the mechwarrior does not depend on the viewports as his primary source of visual information, as has been mentioned before. Rather, the mechwarrior uses the data on the screens and readouts, and especially uses the 360 degree view projected onto his neurohelmet faceplate by EXTERNAL cameras and sensors. As I recall, if I can find the quote, it has even been established that learning to adjust to that same compressed 360 degree field of view, and read and translate what you are seeing correctly, is supposed to be one of the more difficult aspects of mechwarrior training.

Now, I'm as much of a lore/canon junkie as the next guy, but I would absolutely NOT want to play with a compressed 360 degree field of view gathered from external camera and sensors, projected onto my screen overlaying anything else I might be able to see.

[Thejusttired]

Quote

the faceplate of the neurohelmet projects a 360 degree field of view mere inches in front of your nose

Word!! I totally agree. I´ve never played the TT. But i´ve read a lot of the novels. And the 360 fov provided by the neurohelmet is mentioned a whole lot of times. As well the magnetometric view, IR, and stuff like that.

So i am totally against 3PV cause i don´t like it and it does´t fit the sim style i wanna play. in 3PV its not Mechwarrior, its Mecha...
And if the mech controls aren´t disabled in 3PV it gives an advantage to that particular player. If they want arcade, easy games they should get a console and stick to ****** Mechassault.

But i´m positive that the development team, lead by one of the bt universe founders will do a proper (refering to tt and novels ) Job.

[Sam Slade]

first or third person only will cost heaps of players. People want to see their mech. Jst about every mouse has a wheel on it... make it a zoom in and out function

[Cake Bandit]

That's reserved for changing firing groups.

[Sam Slade]

It's an example though... assign a hotkey to change view modes. Was fine in MW4.

Edited by Sam Slade, 13 November 2011 - 04:43 AM.

[Barbaric Soul]

Why not have both options, but make it so on FFP servers you have to play in FFP and in 3pv servers, you have to play in 3pv. Then the FFP players get thier immersive enviroment they want without having to worring about being at a disadvantage and the 3pv players get to play the way they want to play. Maybe even have two different ranking systems, one for when a player is on a FFP server and one for 3pv servers. That way everyone is happy.

[Angel Mortalitas]

Rip Snorgan, on 11 November 2011 - 08:59 PM, said:

Also, I should add for clarification, I'm fortunate in that I actually have found several games where 1PV was just fine (FPS only so far, no luck yet in cockpit perspective games to date ), and have played and enjoyed those games immensely.

And being such a Battletech canon/lore/immersion junky, the first time I launch the game, be it forced or not, I'll try out the 1PV and see how it feels. What I'm hoping for in my "best case scenario", is that it will feel awesome, and I can play unimpeded. What I'm fearing in my "worst case scenario", is that it will make me feel dizzy and sick, and that there will be no "second option" for me to switch to 3PV and continue to play.

And there are those out there who are afflicted even worse than I with this form of motion sickness. For at least some of them, I imagine that where there might be a slight chance that 1PV might work for me, there will perhaps be zero chance that it will work for them. I can't help but empathize, even if I do end up lucky enough to find the 1PV suitable.

I personally prefer FPV but in saying that I feel for those poor souls that suffer from motion sickness....I really do. I have a couple of friends that suffer this and I have felt ill whilst playing one of the earlier Wolfensteins, that was a frame rate issue but it was still unpleasant enough that I couldn't play for more than a few minutes at a time.

Here's hoping, for those people, that the devs consider/implement a function where, like WoT and (to a certain extent) Eve, have the option to turn off camera shake. I have no real idea if this would alleviate sufferers symptoms but it might be something worth looking into.

[Neutron IX]

Angel Mortalitas, on 13 November 2011 - 06:52 AM, said:

I personally prefer FPV but in saying that I feel for those poor souls that suffer from motion sickness....I really do. I have a couple of friends that suffer this and I have felt ill whilst playing one of the earlier Wolfensteins, that was a frame rate issue but it was still unpleasant enough that I couldn't play for more than a few minutes at a time.

Here's hoping, for those people, that the devs consider/implement a function where, like WoT and (to a certain extent) Eve, have the option to turn off camera shake. I have no real idea if this would alleviate sufferers symptoms but it might be something worth looking into.

Well, from what I've seen, personally I have full faith in the devs willingness to at least consider all angles, and try things out to see what works and what doesn't. Brian Ekman and company have shown in these forums that they're paying attention, to reasonable suggestions, and it's appreciated.

And in the long run, I'm going to be quite excited for the finished product, pretty much regardless of how it shows up.

[SmuttyChiken]

Simply have the option at server hosting level, as it is now with the old MW4 and dirivatives version, so that who ever hosts a server can set their preference.

This is the way it has been for the 10+ years of MW4. If the game is supposed to be a mix of all the MW games from 2 to Mercs then the server hosting should be part of it. The variations on how to play this game from Vengeance onwards is what makes it so great. It caters for all tastes and not those of a selfish view point ...

If there is to be no hosting of servers, and everyone has to play on game admin hosted servers, then simply have 3rd person and FFP servers to choose from.

I played in NBT for nearly 4 years (FFP) and MWL 7 years (3rdP) so have nothing against either gameplay. After all if the server is where the option for the view is then everyone in the server have the same options.

I too tend to suffer motion sickness, that FFP's total immersion sometimes creates (getting old), so would like to see both options available.

Bawk!

Edited by SmuttyChiken, 13 November 2011 - 02:48 PM.

[phelanjkell]

I think what their team is trying to do is create the simulation feeling of YOU, the mechwarrior sitting inside this behemoth of a machine. You got computers flashing information at you, things calling your attention in the cockpit.

Now this being all said, it is a fundamental part of their game development, not to mention what they are trying to create. I think a 1st person perspective is a wonderful idea, with allot more detail put into it than the previous titles, it will look amazing!!

I don't want a jump snipe fest, not like Mechwarrior 4. BUT I do know allot of individuals like that option, so I think there are some options for them to do something and not give away tactical information such as:

• Top of left/right shoulder camera angle
  
• Left or right hip angle

Both give a unique perspective to the player, but do not allow them to get a tactical advantage like the previous titles. The DEV team could take it even further and remove all visual/HUD systems except for the reticle. Putting an emphasis on being in the cockpit, but allow you to choose yourselves.


It will be interesting to see what route they choose!!

Edited by phelanjkell, 13 November 2011 - 03:01 PM.

[Linkin]

I like both options. 3rd person is neat to be able to see the Mech and the environment immediately around it, however, I prefer the immersion of 1st person.

[Tygrys]

I just wanted to point out that as a customer I don't like my options being limited. Besides, sim or no, it's still just a game and I want to ENJOY my game. Getting mad about the inability of doing something because the devs did not give me the option to do it isn't exactly welcome. I don't see anything bad in having both options available. Most sims do have both of them so I don't the point of many people here.

As far as canon goes too 3rd person view isn't that bad either. I mean, it's easier to implement than, let's say, compressed 360 degree FOV in a neuro helmet.

Also I'd like to say I dislike the attitude of most of the 1st person view 'lovers' calling everyone 'kiddies' and what not. Grow up - it's a game and there's this thing called 'respecting ones opinions and choices' and insulting people doesn't really reflect that.

[Thejusttired]

Quote

People want to see their mech.

Right.. i understand that.. and they obviously will be able to look at their mech.... in the mechlab etc...

[Johann Devalis]

While I do like to see my mech moving around from an exterior view, for me it was never a good combat view and ended up fighting in 1st person...

I think the camera during play should be locked in 1st person but cockpit motion should be optional for those that get sick - but this does not help with easier targeting and such... Say the reticle still moves around from mech motion.
Then there should be a replay after each battle that has some awesome cinematic camera work! (really want this!!!)

[MaddMaxx]

Rip Snorgan, on 13 November 2011 - 02:04 AM, said:

But not every mech did have this nice wide open clear viewport, and certainly not every mech that did have one had one created the equal of some others.

Yes, it is clearly established that some mechs have ferro-glass canopies that are not unlike what we see in modern attack helicopters, but it is equally true that there are many that according to lore/fluff, have very small viewports with very limited field of view. How do these mechs function on an equal footing with their counterparts?

I would suggest it is because the mechwarrior does not depend on the viewports as his primary source of visual information, as has been mentioned before. Rather, the mechwarrior uses the data on the screens and readouts, and especially uses the 360 degree view projected onto his neurohelmet faceplate by EXTERNAL cameras and sensors. As I recall, if I can find the quote, it has even been established that learning to adjust to that same compressed 360 degree field of view, and read and translate what you are seeing correctly, is supposed to be one of the more difficult aspects of mechwarrior training.

Now, I'm as much of a lore/canon junkie as the next guy, but I would absolutely NOT want to play with a compressed 360 degree field of view gathered from external camera and sensors, projected onto my screen overlaying anything else I might be able to see.

I should have stated Only Means as even the excerpt indicates the helmets had limited functionality after being the means by which a pilot could stabilize a walking monster to the point it could run at extreme speeds.

I didn't note this as I was unsure but I thought I remembered the compressed view being 360 > 270 but that was the Video Games surely and not TT.

Either way the Canon Neuro helmet may have added visual aids but apparently was not specifically designed as the only means for a pilot to see his outside his Mech. And like a fighter pilot, the Helmets screen itself is likely tinted, not sight blocking.

Just as a note. It seems counter productive for the DEV to design a super cool looking, and functional In-Cockpit environment (1st Person)
and then provide a button so the Pilot can sit on its shoulder while driving. (that is just me though)

[Thomas Hogarth]

If one wants to look at their 'Mech, there is plenty of time to do that in the 'Mechlab.

I get the feeling that at least some of the 3PV supporters are looking for a MW4-style "look over hills" type advantage.

Yes, the technology exists, today, to have a UAV that orbits a unit to provide a birds eye view. Let's ignore the fact that this UAV would be able to be shot down rather easily, and would not provide such a close view of the action for a moment. We also have missiles that can be launched against targets hundreds of miles away. Hell, tank gun ranges in WW2 vastly out-perform stated Battlemech weapon ranges. Should we include the OSK weapons just because they exist today? No. That would suck, and it wouldn't fit the setting. Same with 3PV.

(edit) Furthermore, armed superlight primitive industrialmechs should be surprised when they turn the corner and run into a solid medium like a Highlander.

Edited by Thomas Hogarth, 14 November 2011 - 10:37 AM.

[Kohzak]

I kinda hope they give the the ability to press the 'V' key in order to jump into third person. I like being able to see the mech, just out of personal preferance. Plus there are just to many FPS out there already, I kinda want to see someone give us the option to switch camara angles.

[Bansheedragon75]

I prefer 1st person only, never like the 3rd person view in these games.

What I would like to see though, is the ability to launch say a camera drone and have it show in a screen in the cockpit showing me the immediate area surrounding my mech.
It should have a limited lifespan though and be possible for enemy mechs to shoot down.

[Kohzak]

Dragonlord, on 14 November 2011 - 11:06 AM, said:

I prefer 1st person only, never like the 3rd person view in these games.

What I would like to see though, is the ability to launch say a camera drone and have it show in a screen in the cockpit showing me the immediate area surrounding my mech.
It should have a limited lifespan though and be possible for enemy mechs to shoot down.

They already have that, according to the trailer at least.

[barcode]

Third-person view is less immersive and provides an advantage based on the improved field of view. Let's keep it in-cockpit, please.