614 replies to this topic

[Havoc2]

I much prefer 1st person, but I ran 3rd person in MW4 because of the advantage that it gave (see above hills, around buildings etc).

I preferred matches that were FFP.

On a side note, it was funny to listen to all the crying of the hill humpers abusing the MW4 bug that allowed weapons to fire through the terrain as long as the target reticule was on the enemy once that bug was fixed.

Edited by }{avoc, 14 November 2011 - 11:41 AM.

[Alkero]

BEFORE I SAY ANYTHING ELSE LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR: I'M FOR 1st PERSON, BUT NOT ONLY 1st PERSON

With that said, for those of you who DO complain about 3rd Person and it's "unfair advantage" around hills, buildings and "cover" (if you can use such a word in reference to massive walking machines of doom ;D) I just want to remind you, YOU TOO can switch to 3rd person, it's entirely a choice, not only this but also, do not the Clans fight in a way that limits their abilities? and does not the Inner Sphere take advantage of that fact when they fight the Clans? So maybe that 3rd person user is just using better tactics than you I know that I switch between views in order to get tactical awareness

[Havoc2]

Attacking a planet that has a garrison of 100 'Mechs with 60 'Mechs is a Clan's "tactic". They handicap themselves in a way to showcase their superior skills.

Telling people to use 3rd person so that someone who may be using 3rd person doesn't have an advantage just tells everyone to use 3rd person.

That's like solving the "Cone of Fire" threads by saying, "Everyone just use lasers".

[Cronicus]

I would rather have a great first person view then third person. MechWarrior games where always great because of the simulator feel that a good first person view grants. If we have to choose One ohh please by jupiter's **** let it be a first person view.

[CyBerkut]

If a 3PV capability is be be included, it should be a server side option to disallow it (ala MW4). If PG / IGP is handling all of the server hosting for it, then they should provide 1PV only servers for those who wish to play more in the spirit of simulation. That may mean that they would have to have stats / ranking / leveling for 3PV allowed play that is separate from those that are 1PV only.

As for the 360 degree view compressed into a HUD in the neuro-helmet's face plate... That could be cool. Nothing there that lets the pilot see over hills, or around corners, without exposing the mech to fire (as that would be fed from mech mounted cameras). They could even include damage modelling that sometimes has a camera for a quadrant knocked out when the camera's location on the mech has taken a high enough amount of damage. Having that compressed 360 degree view floating in front of your face (on your face plate) as you turn you head and look around inside your cockpit could take some getting used to... but probably would be totally worth it if it was well implemented. I'd say make that a pilot selectable option.

I'd always thought there should be an option for a 360 view bar along the top of the display, and had mentioned it in some other thread. I was unaware that actually was BT cannon.

1PV makes sense for the folks who want this to be a simulator, but for MWO's stated goals it takes on even more importance. Information Warfare is to be prominently featured / depended upon in this incarnation. With a 1PV cockpit view, to get an outside perspective view you will need to depend upon a video feed from some other source (a scout mech, or a drone, or a satellite, whatever they give us to use). A 3PV option detracts from the need to use feeds from outside sources, so it would be counter-productive to the goal to make Information Warfare an important part of gameplay.

[Kohzak]

barcode, on 14 November 2011 - 11:30 AM, said:

Third-person view is less immersive and provides an advantage based on the improved field of view. Let's keep it in-cockpit, please.

I just like it because, well, I just like it. Someone above was talking about how the hud is being projected through the helmet, and thats great if you want to pretend, but I prefer 3rd person because you get to see the Mech in its entirety, its movements, the amount of detail put into it. When I'm in the cockpit, I feel like I'm being constricted and that I am only allowed to see what is being shown on screen, when there is actually so much more going on. I want to see a huge battle raging on in the distance and know that is where I need to go.

To me, Immersiveness should be based on what the game delivers, not just on whether its First or 3rd person. Because after all the wannabe Micheal Bay games that have come out, I am less immersed and just waiting for the next Helicopter ride that will just end abruptly when some guy with an RPG blows us out of the sky (for the fifth time). I am talking about those "Oh god! Oh God! We're all going to die!" moments that Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries had where you fought off a group of light mechs, then a whole batallion appears with ECM and 4 Assult mechs in back. To me thats how you know if a game is immersive, if it can generate an emotional reaction from the player.

I say make the camera a option that one can control by pressing a key.

Edited by Kohzak, 15 November 2011 - 07:20 AM.

[Havoc2]

If 3rd person is allowed, it should be an outside shot of the 'Mech from behind ala MW4, BUT without any targeting reticule or information available from the HUD visible.

[Thomas Hogarth]

}{avoc, on 15 November 2011 - 08:26 AM, said:

If 3rd person is allowed, it should be an outside shot of the 'Mech from behind ala MW4, BUT without any targeting reticule or information available from the HUD visible.

Unfortunately, that would still allow people to see around corners or over hills. Now, match that with some sort of visibility rendering that only renders objects that can be seen from the cockpit, and you might be on to something.

But at that rate, it's easier for the devs to just force 1PV. Is it really worth the extra development time to allow people to look at their own 'Mech, when they can do that in the 'Mechlab?

[Kohzak]

}{avoc, on 15 November 2011 - 08:26 AM, said:

If 3rd person is allowed, it should be an outside shot of the 'Mech from behind ala MW4, BUT without any targeting reticule or information available from the HUD visible.

Sorry, but thats just unfair for people who prefer 3rd person over 1st. A player should not feel like he'she is being punished just because they like 3rd person. Bad Idea.

Thomas Hogarth, on 15 November 2011 - 08:49 AM, said:

Unfortunately, that would still allow people to see around corners or over hills. Now, match that with some sort of visibility rendering that only renders objects that can be seen from the cockpit, and you might be on to something.

Still a bad idea, and unrealistic

Edited by Kohzak, 15 November 2011 - 11:16 AM.

[Thomas Hogarth]

Kohzak, on 15 November 2011 - 11:14 AM, said:

Sorry, but thats just unfair for people who prefer 3rd person over 1st. A player should not feel like he'she is being punished just because they like 3rd person. Bad Idea.



Still a bad idea, and unrealistic

Flipside of that coin is that giving 3PV more information(which is what seeing around corners and over hills is) penalizes those who prefer to play in 1PV over 3PV. To quote you, "that's just unfair".

[Kohzak]

Thomas Hogarth, on 15 November 2011 - 02:26 PM, said:

Flipside of that coin is that giving 3PV more information(which is what seeing around corners and over hills is) penalizes those who prefer to play in 1PV over 3PV. To quote you, "that's just unfair".

And STALEMATE!

So what if in third person view you can see around corners, or over hills? I honestly fail to see how that is a problem.

[Neanot]

I am quite happy with a 3rd person camera view, but there shouldn't be any targeting recticle or firing solutions available, just views of the area, and the ability to select a target. You lose the feel and perspective of a 100 tonne mech when everything is seen from above.

There could also be line-of-sight issues for fighting in 3rd person against someone fighting 1st person, eg you can see them over the top of the building, and they can only see the building, so you shouldn't be able to fire weapons in 3rd person.

[Hodo]

Thejusttired, on 13 November 2011 - 02:12 AM, said:

Word!! I totally agree. I´ve never played the TT. But i´ve read a lot of the novels. And the 360 fov provided by the neurohelmet is mentioned a whole lot of times. As well the magnetometric view, IR, and stuff like that.

So i am totally against 3PV cause i don´t like it and it does´t fit the sim style i wanna play. in 3PV its not Mechwarrior, its Mecha...
And if the mech controls aren´t disabled in 3PV it gives an advantage to that particular player. If they want arcade, easy games they should get a console and stick to ****** Mechassault.

But i´m positive that the development team, lead by one of the bt universe founders will do a proper (refering to tt and novels ) Job.

What books are you all reading, because the last book I read, "Wolves On the Boarder" didnt mention this wonderful bit of tech ever. I remember reading about the Mag sensors, the IR, and Thermal systems. But the only mechs I had heard of that could do anything like what you talk about were Clans circa 3060s, and the Cyclops mech, which had the ability to tap into satellites overhead.

If they compressed the world view into the Neurohelmets like you say they did, then fine. But I can tell you now you will be a wall eyed SOB by the end of the day.

But all the fluff I have read, they talk about the 360 view being from the radar system on the mech, or the sensors. I have no problems with having backup cameras, and other view cameras available at all times. But a floating magic eye above or detached from the mech, NO, not only no but HELL NO!

[CG Anastasius Focht]

The problem with 3rd person view in MW4 was it could be exploited.
You could park your mech behind a hill or similar object, and use the 3rd person view to get Line Of Sight on your target, while they on the other hand had none.
This was used to get a missile lock while under complete cover, and once locked you poptart a round off.

[Akenatum Malthus]

First things first I haven't read all of this thread.

With that said and in mind I'd like to say that I prefer first person view in saying that I'd like to mention that i also suffer from motion sickness playing first person games/flight sims (only time I suffer it fine at sea in a plan in a car or train all while reading a book or looking out the window) and get violent migraines and dizzyness if I play for more than an hour +/- 5-10 minutes depending on the game quality.

Now I can't speak to how fast others get sick while playing these game types but I'd deffinetly hope that there would be options for say running in a pve environment to have a 3rd person mode active for that if wanted for things like end game (if released) content but making pvp instances forced first person (disclaimer pvp is my most favourte part of games even though i'm bad at it usually) Something like that might help too keep the game palyable for those like myself who do start to get sick playing in first person mode all the time.

[Alkero]

Thomas Hogarth, on 15 November 2011 - 02:26 PM, said:

Flipside of that coin is that giving 3PV more information(which is what seeing around corners and over hills is) penalizes those who prefer to play in 1PV over 3PV. To quote you, "that's just unfair".

Seeing as this issue will NEVER be solved, let's just have dedicated servers? it is seriously the best option and promotes equality AND "fairness" ;D anywhoo, i like 3rd person because i get to see my Atlas standing a whole head and shoulders above some puny Medium or better yet a light ;D

[Datum]

Love first person. Please keep it that way. I want a Mech Simulator, not a third-person-shooter.

[Thomas Hogarth]

Kohzak, on 15 November 2011 - 03:39 PM, said:

And STALEMATE!

So what if in third person view you can see around corners, or over hills? I honestly fail to see how that is a problem.

Wait, you don't see how being able to see around corners or over hills without a proper UAV is a problem?

Okay, well, let's break it down. Let's say you're in a city fight. You decide not to camp it up and actually engage in combat. You're marching down an avenue. Three blocks in front of you is a 'Mech that you cannot see or detect, but he can see you due to being in 3PV. Not knowing you're being watched, since there's no UAVs up or any other indication to the surveillance, you torso twist right to look down an intersection before crossing. Seeing your every move, he sees your momentary weakness, steps out of cover, and fires. You're hit, and before you can twist back and return fire, he's moved back behind cover.

In other words, it gives an unreasonable advantage to the camper. I can't think of any game that has done well online because it gave unreasonable advantages to campers.

[edit] To be clear, 3PV would not grant this advantage to you, if you were using it. Think about it, you're only able to see around building/hills that you yourself are close to.

Edited by Thomas Hogarth, 15 November 2011 - 09:34 PM.

[Kohzak]

Thomas Hogarth, on 15 November 2011 - 09:33 PM, said:

Wait, you don't see how being able to see around corners or over hills without a proper UAV is a problem?

Okay, well, let's break it down. Let's say you're in a city fight. You decide not to camp it up and actually engage in combat. You're marching down an avenue. Three blocks in front of you is a 'Mech that you cannot see or detect, but he can see you due to being in 3PV. Not knowing you're being watched, since there's no UAVs up or any other indication to the surveillance, you torso twist right to look down an intersection before crossing. Seeing your every move, he sees your momentary weakness, steps out of cover, and fires. You're hit, and before you can twist back and return fire, he's moved back behind cover.

In other words, it gives an unreasonable advantage to the camper. I can't think of any game that has done well online because it gave unreasonable advantages to campers.

[edit] To be clear, 3PV would not grant this advantage to you, if you were using it. Think about it, you're only able to see around building/hills that you yourself are close to.

You make it sound like people who play in first person are so unbelieveably hopless and frail that they are incapable of backing off quickly when a barrage of LRMs come rising over a hill top or a pulse laser streaks by their cockpit from behind and quickly crouching behind cover, then initiating an attack of their own.

In first person and third you will always have blind spots. If you remember in MW4M, there is a camera button that allows you to look behind you (which I thought was pointless) and down, while left and right controlled your arms. if you just take out the function that allows you to look behind you, a player is limited to a 180 degree field of view when he is looking forward, 270 if his torso is turned all the way around and aiming to the side with his weapon, even then a player is blind on one side of the his body at all times. This opens the possibility of sneak attacks.

[Taemien]

First person only.

If you get motion sickness playing video games, I'm going to recommend a different hobby. There's been warnings in instruction manuals for the last 25 years about that sort of thing.

And believe me, I know what it means not being able to do what you like to do because of a physical limitation. Thankfully you all have medications to cope. Not everyone is so lucky.