60 replies to this topic

[StillRadioactive]

Prophetic, on 24 December 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

So you admit Ghost dropping for planet caps by having no one to fight?

Your short term memory has also lead you to forget NS planets on your border until we as a house refocused on the Clans.

I guess no one can blame you from hiding from the clan front and attacking IS instead.



Ironic how we can say the same about Marik not knowing what it is like to be in our shoes.

Ironic how, being in the middle of the two of you, and handing a defeat to NS when they tried to zerg pre-nerf with borked hitreg... I can say that Marik is a harder opponent.

Socop, on 24 December 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:

If you want to assume offense where none is intended I can't stop you. I've spent my share of time pug and group dropping on the davion/kurita borders ever since CW opened and they're consistently the worst players I run into, both when I'm fighting them or stuck with them on my team on defense against clanners.

The continued chestbeating by random davs about what big boys they are for zerging every border they have (except conveniently the only other faction to rival them in raw numbers, steiner) has been one of the funnier things to watch over the holidays.

DAVION IS NOT FARMING AUTO-WINS!

Zerging the queue for auto-wins isn't even POSSIBLE. You know that 36 defenders locks up a planet, right? Because a match takes 30 minutes, matchmaker searches for 11 minutes for defenders, and IT WILL ONLY SEARCH FOR ONE MATCH AT A TIME.

This means that when there are 36 defenders and 72 attackers, there are 36 attackers in a match, 12 attackers locked into a game and searching for enemies, and 24 attackers watching the counter tick UP while they stare at a lobby full of "PILOT RECEIVING ORDERS."

Davion doesn't get auto-wins. Our queue times are HORRIBLE. We wait our turn to play REAL MATCHES, and that's what we get!

The only time auto-wins happen is when defenders flat-out REFUSE to show up... which happens with Kurita and Kurita alone.

Edited by StillRadioactive, 24 December 2014 - 04:45 PM.

[Scoops Kerensky]

StillRadioactive, on 24 December 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

Ironic how, being in the middle of the two of you, and handing a defeat to NS when they tried to zerg pre-nerf with borked hitreg... I can say that Marik is a harder opponent.

And of course you gain nothing by trying to stir the pot over petty infighting between marik and kurita units so this is just your opinion, right?

EDIT: you want to provide sources beyond anecdotes I'm all ears. Anecdotally I've gotten plenty of ghost drops against clanners when they were active on a planet, and the only thing I've heard is Russ's lone tweet about the 2-3% of matches which is statistically very significant and needs to be given with more context to be credible in any way.

Edited by Socop, 24 December 2014 - 04:48 PM.

[Prophetic]

StillRadioactive, on 24 December 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

Ironic how, being in the middle of the two of you, and handing a defeat to NS when they tried to zerg pre-nerf with borked hitreg... I can say that Marik is a harder opponent.

So you are hanging your hat on stopping a zerg light rush as an organized unit and then losing the match anyway? I don't ever remember losing to your unit. Ever. Maybe there were 5 of us derping?

Now I have seen it all.

I do remember your unit trying to hide spiders in the back of the cannon before it was fixed and still losing. Something we never stooped to.

Even worse is you lost that planet to us in the end because your 12 mans stopped dropping there.

Edited by Prophetic, 24 December 2014 - 04:57 PM.

[StillRadioactive]

Socop, on 24 December 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

And of course you gain nothing by trying to stir the pot over petty infighting between marik and kurita units so this is just your opinion, right?

EDIT: you want to provide sources beyond anecdotes I'm all ears. Anecdotally I've gotten plenty of ghost drops against clanners when they were active on a planet, and the only thing I've heard is Russ's lone tweet about the 2-3% of matches which is statistically very significant and needs to be given with more context to be credible in any way.

Do you want me to screenshot my 20+ minute queue times with full lobbies? Cause that's almost every freakin' match.

Prophetic, on 24 December 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

So you are hanging your hat on stopping a zerg light rush as an organized unit and then losing the match anyway? I don't ever remember losing to your unit. Ever. Maybe there were 5 of us derping?

Now I have seen it all.

I do remember your unit trying to hide spiders in the back of the cannon before it was fixed and still losing. Something we never stooped to.

Even worse is you lost that planet to us in the end because your 12 mans stopped dropping there.

Let me refresh your memory on how a 6-man of 22AL stopped a 9-man zerg rush of NS and won the match before hit-reg got fixed... and if you look carefully at the names, you'll see StillRadioactive on the winning side, and Prophetic on the losing side.

And no, you didn't take that planet. That was Tripoli.



EDIT: The TRULY remarkable thing about this is that I was struck by how good the sportsmanship in the match was at the time... and then you want to come into this thread and accuse my faction of zerging the queue for auto-wins WHICH ISN'T EVEN POSSIBLE WHEN DEFENDERS ARE PRESENT.

Edited by StillRadioactive, 24 December 2014 - 05:06 PM.

[Prophetic]

StillRadioactive, on 24 December 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

Do you want me to screenshot my 20+ minute queue times with full lobbies? Cause that's almost every freakin' match.



Let me refresh your memory on how a 6-man of 22AL stopped a 9-man zerg rush of NS and won the match before hit-reg got fixed... and if you look carefully at the names, you'll see StillRadioactive on the winning side, and Prophetic on the losing side.

And no, you didn't take that planet. That was Tripoli.



EDIT: The TRULY remarkable thing about this is that I was struck by how good the sportsmanship in the match was at the time... and then you want to come into this thread and accuse my faction of zerging the queue for auto-wins WHICH ISN'T EVEN POSSIBLE WHEN DEFENDERS ARE PRESENT.

Again that is not a unit vs unit match, but what ever helps you feel good about yourself.

You also cut off the match which you ended up losing. That is what I said in the first place. Not that u didn't stop a rush of some kind.

I look forward to your first win vs 12 of us. I'm sure it will happen eventually.

Edited by Prophetic, 24 December 2014 - 05:13 PM.

[StillRadioactive]

Prophetic, on 24 December 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

Again that is not a unit vs unit match, but what ever helps you feel good about yourself.

I look forward to your first win vs 12 of us. I'm sure it will happen eventually.

And STILL no comment on the fact that it's not possible to farm auto-wins when defenders are present.

[Prophetic]

StillRadioactive, on 24 December 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

And STILL no comment on the fact that it's not possible to farm auto-wins when defenders are present.

So why would there be any auto wins at all at 3% for the last three hours per Russ?

Davions are the experts when it comes to auto-wins so I defer to you.

StillRadioactive, on 24 December 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

And no, you didn't take that planet. That was Tripoli.

I seem to see 2 Tags on Tripoli so Kurita did in fact have the planet twice.

Edited by Prophetic, 24 December 2014 - 05:23 PM.

[StillRadioactive]

Prophetic, on 24 December 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

So why would there be any auto wins at all at 3% for the last three hours per Russ?

Davions are the experts when it comes to auto-wins so I defer to you.

When the ceasefire locks out the queues, if one faction has a leftover 12-man, that faction gets an auto-win because there are no defenders. This could work in either faction's favor, depending on how many players are in the queue at any given time.

Davion is up by 21 planets. I can count the number of nail-biter finishes we've had on one hand, and that includes planets we've narrowly lost... and I will admit there was ONE planet where we got the benefit of a single auto-win and took the planet by a single point.

That planet was Asuncion.

We're not winning because we're flooding the queues. Asuncion was an edge-case. It is one planet out of 21 that we've gained. The other 20 were fought out the hard way, and an equal percentage of our defenses were, too.

Frankly, it's unsporting to make baseless accusations that your opponent is exploiting the system just because you didn't see the results of every single match.

If you win a match, great! We'll congratulate you on a well-fought victory... but there could be 5 other matches going on at the same time that your side is losing.

I sit in the Davion command meetings every night, and I hear the results of every match run by our organized units as they come in during the ceasefire window. It's rare that any of them are reported as turret stomps... and now that we can see queue numbers, we know exactly when those rare turret stomps are happening, so it's not like the drop commanders can lie when they report their results.

Please... just stop making false accusations. It's bad enough that we have to wait orders of magnitude longer than any other faction to get a match, all we want is to see good sportsmanship in return for the effort we put into finding matches.

[Prophetic]

StillRadioactive, on 24 December 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

Frankly, it's unsporting to make baseless accusations that your opponent is exploiting the system just because you didn't see the results of every single match.

If you win a match, great! We'll congratulate you on a well-fought victory... but there could be 5 other matches going on at the same time that your side is losing.

I sit in the Davion command meetings every night, and I hear the results of every match run by our organized units as they come in during the ceasefire window. It's rare that any of them are reported as turret stomps... and now that we can see queue numbers, we know exactly when those rare turret stomps are happening, so it's not like the drop commanders can lie when they report their results.

Please... just stop making false accusations. It's bad enough that we have to wait orders of magnitude longer than any other faction to get a match, all we want is to see good sportsmanship in return for the effort we put into finding matches.

I'm not trying to make baseless accusations but when I see comments like

StillRadioactive, on 24 December 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

Ever since then, hardly anybody's been showing up to fight us. I can't blame you for making assumptions about our might when you haven't tasted our steel... so take it from someone who's had more than his fair share of Davion might:

I have to respond. We are constantly fighting on the Davion and clan front. If anything we are doing you the biggest favor by fighting the clans.

Your in a House Kurita section of CW spouting praise for everyone but HK. You are insinuating that HK dosen't have any strong units to face the might of Davion. In fact you belittle us by saying one of our non-aggression pact houses far outclasses our House.

Go tally up your victories, since you get battle reports all the time, vs NS or 9th Sword. See how many you come up with.
Give us some credit and the same credit will be given back.

If you show up to trash our house don't expect a warm welcome. On or off the battlefield.

We are all about showing our adversaries every bit of the honor they deserve.

We are more then willing to look past your transgressions if you would but change your outward tone.

Edited by Prophetic, 24 December 2014 - 05:44 PM.

[StillRadioactive]

Prophetic, on 24 December 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

I'm not trying to make baseless accusations but when I see comments like



I have to respond. We are constantly fighting on the Davion and clan front. If anything we are doing you the biggest favor by fighting the clans.

Your in a House Kurita section of CW spouting praise for everyone but HK. You are insinuating that HK dosen't have any strong units to face the might of Davion. In fact you belittle us by saying one of our non-aggression pact houses far outclasses our House.

Go tally up your victories, since you get battle reports all the time, vs NS or 9th Sword. See how many you come up with.
Give us some credit and the same credit will be given back.

If you show up to trash our house don't expect a warm welcome. On or off the battlefield.

We are all about showing our adversaries every bit of the honor they deserve.

We are more then willing to look past your transgressions if you would but change your outward tone.

Very well. I flew off the handle when I saw the insinuation by Socop that Davion is gaming the system by having a large player base.

It's something that I see in nearly every thread (even from people coming into Davion's forum) and it's frayed my nerves to the breaking point... this is merely the thread where I exploded, and for that I apologize.

As for the wins vs individual opponents, that's not something that I track... we just get the count of how many matches are still ongoing at the ceasefire window, then we track down the units involved on our side and get the likelihood of a win or loss so that we can determine a little bit early whether or not we'll carry a planet.

For example: If, at the ceasefire tonight, we're defending planet Borat with 7 attacker wins and we have 3 matches still going on, we'll try to determine the total point change on that planet while the battles are still raging. If it's a turret stomp, that information is reported immediately so that we know we have that point 100% guaranteed. This is very rarely the case.

As for NS, I've personally had one match against any sizeable force of your players, and that was in the video that I linked. The vast majority of my drops on the Kurita border were against 228 while they were under Kurita contract.

The drop against NS was hard-fought, and your guys made a valiant effort to try and pull out a win after the zerg rush was stopped, but you were simply unable to overcome the 12-mech deficit that you accumulated with the zerg rush.

I talked about that match for several days afterwards whenever other Davion leaders wanted information on units fighting at the Kurita border.

As for recent experience there, house loyalists like myself have very little... because for this week, we've had a mercenary unit crank the planets up to 11 during euro hours, and we don't see much motion in the opposite direction for the rest of the day. The report that I get from the mercs is that there is often zero opposition. If this is not the case, I apologize for being misinformed.

Now, the reason I give the edge to Marik in a head-to-head comparison is simply that Marik is able to focus 100% of their attention on us. I've come across 3rd Takata Lancers multiple times, and they pushed us just as hard in individual matches as any Marik unit ever has, but the multi-front nature of your war means that they're unable to STAY on our border and keep us grinding full-strength for 8 days like Marik has on Wazan.

Now... now that we've both had a few deep breaths... I'd like to say that I'm working on a post that will explain exactly how matchmaker works and why zerging the queue is impossible. Roadbeer has already done something similar, which Russ confirmed as correct, so it would be very helpful if everyone - from all factions - could disseminate the information as widely as possible.

Because all this animosity that's building up, from various factions claiming that Davion is exploiting the system and Davion players (rightfully) being frustrated with having their hard work dismissed as merely cheating... it's not good for the game. It's the sort of thing that can make people on both sides rage-quit and not come back to CW.

[Prophetic]

StillRadioactive, on 24 December 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

Very well. I flew off the handle when I saw the insinuation by Socop that Davion is gaming the system by having a large player base.

It's something that I see in nearly every thread (even from people coming into Davion's forum) and it's frayed my nerves to the breaking point... this is merely the thread where I exploded, and for that I apologize.

As for the wins vs individual opponents, that's not something that I track... we just get the count of how many matches are still ongoing at the ceasefire window, then we track down the units involved on our side and get the likelihood of a win or loss so that we can determine a little bit early whether or not we'll carry a planet.

For example: If, at the ceasefire tonight, we're defending planet Borat with 7 attacker wins and we have 3 matches still going on, we'll try to determine the total point change on that planet while the battles are still raging. If it's a turret stomp, that information is reported immediately so that we know we have that point 100% guaranteed. This is very rarely the case.

As for NS, I've personally had one match against any sizeable force of your players, and that was in the video that I linked. The vast majority of my drops on the Kurita border were against 228 while they were under Kurita contract.

The drop against NS was hard-fought, and your guys made a valiant effort to try and pull out a win after the zerg rush was stopped, but you were simply unable to overcome the 12-mech deficit that you accumulated with the zerg rush.

I talked about that match for several days afterwards whenever other Davion leaders wanted information on units fighting at the Kurita border.

As for recent experience there, house loyalists like myself have very little... because for this week, we've had a mercenary unit crank the planets up to 11 during euro hours, and we don't see much motion in the opposite direction for the rest of the day. The report that I get from the mercs is that there is often zero opposition. If this is not the case, I apologize for being misinformed.

Now, the reason I give the edge to Marik in a head-to-head comparison is simply that Marik is able to focus 100% of their attention on us. I've come across 3rd Takata Lancers multiple times, and they pushed us just as hard in individual matches as any Marik unit ever has, but the multi-front nature of your war means that they're unable to STAY on our border and keep us grinding full-strength for 8 days like Marik has on Wazan.

Now... now that we've both had a few deep breaths... I'd like to say that I'm working on a post that will explain exactly how matchmaker works and why zerging the queue is impossible. Roadbeer has already done something similar, which Russ confirmed as correct, so it would be very helpful if everyone - from all factions - could disseminate the information as widely as possible.

Because all this animosity that's building up, from various factions claiming that Davion is exploiting the system and Davion players (rightfully) being frustrated with having their hard work dismissed as merely cheating... it's not good for the game. It's the sort of thing that can make people on both sides rage-quit and not come back to CW.

We appreciate your coming to reason and recognizing the poor direction this type of discussion encourages.

We all have our point of views and it's ok to not agree.

On your video though, it shows 10 kills not 12 and the gen is 1/2 health. 9 lights rushing and a few pugs is prob not enough to get the gen all the way down especially with 3 pugs literally first dropping and shooting the gate to open it.

The first wave is not designed for kills, the next 2 are.

Again that is not a match we would have lost with the gen health being down that far since doing dmg was the only real objective.

While I could be wrong i am almost positive that match went in our favor. If you ever want to drop vs us in force feel free to setup some 12v12s through our website nstalkers.com or pick a planet and we will meet u there.

All in good fun of course.

Edited by Prophetic, 24 December 2014 - 06:43 PM.

[StillRadioactive]

Yeah, I have the whole match shadowplayed in 3 sections. That specific part was put on youtube because it was in the first few days when everyone on /r/outreachhpg thought light zerg was a silver bullet that could never fail to deliver an attacker win, and I wanted to give people hope that it could be done. I didn't upload the rest because it takes forever to get 9 gigs of video up on youtube.

Here's the end of round screen:


And here's how we remember NS:


As for 12v12, we're a small unit and most of our guys have very irregular schedules. It makes it very hard to get 12 together even for pug play. We'll definitely try to swing your way in CW when we have 12 though.

[Prophetic]

Thank you for posting that. I would never have believed it.

Please swing our way soon

[MischiefSC]

Was that the match were I likened that brutal match to feeling like I'd been trying to peckerslap a rabid badger for 20 minutes? That was an epic match.

[Lord Ikka]

The 9th Sword will happily fight the 22nd as well- we like honorable opponents, and breaking our necks fighting Clans all the time is getting slightly old...

[pwnface]

I remember that match vividly as it was our first defeat. Our normal light mech zerg rush was much less effective because we had uncooperative pugs and a disconnected pilot during the first wave. You guys did a great job on defense nonetheless. I remember talking to MischiefSC about the DRG-1N sexy times.

[vandalhooch]

Edited out the post. I misunderstood your understanding of CW matchmaker.

Edited by vandalhooch, 25 December 2014 - 02:34 AM.

[MischiefSC]

pwnface, on 24 December 2014 - 11:24 PM, said:

I remember that match vividly as it was our first defeat. Our normal light mech zerg rush was much less effective because we had uncooperative pugs and a disconnected pilot during the first wave. You guys did a great job on defense nonetheless. I remember talking to MischiefSC about the DRG-1N sexy times.

Speaking of which -

How do you deal with those people who keep shooting your right arm off?

[cranect]

You block the whole right side with the CT obviously lol. That's what I tried anyway it didn't normally work out for the best... I need to fight the clans more but I can attest that the marik davion border has some crazy good fights. I know in the seraphim more than a few of us might be crazy but that's ok. I personally cant wait to see the fights at more than 10 fps... Anyway I know that we are starting to fight the clans so maybe we will end up helping you out up there Kurita. Unless Asuncion becomes up for grabs again then we will be there.

[Darth Buddha]

StillRadioactive, on 24 December 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

And STILL no comment on the fact that it's not possible to farm auto-wins when defenders are present.

I don't really want to get in a forum spat,,, but

The reason why you guys get auto wins, We do to every now and than, is BECAUSE their is not enough people...

No one is saying that any one gets Auto Wins when their are defenders... "I am not saying"

WE GET AUTO WINS TOO SOME TIMES...

So don't say it does not happen. Thats all I have to say...

Don't be all "How dare you insult" I am not insulting anyone just stating a point...

Edited by Darth Buddha, 26 December 2014 - 05:03 AM.