236 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

It's amazing how much stuff one can mine from TT rules that'd be adoptable here.

Rifles. Mortars in the current timeline.

MG variants later. Light AC's (and Protomech AC's) later on as well.

But seriously. Rifles.

Edited by wanderer, 20 September 2015 - 01:42 PM.

[Lykaon]

TELEFORCE, on 24 December 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

I'd like to see machine guns do the same DPS as an AC/2. They both did 2 points of damage a turn on tabletop.

I don't think it would be too much of a problem due to their short range.

As a Huggin pilot I can assure you that would be a problem. 4x MG would be 8 DPS a single AC 20 is only 5.

[Funkin Disher]

If you have the moxie to run up to someone in a light mech armed with only SRMs and MGs then proceed to face them the entire time with said weapons you deserve that kill.

Having viable MGs would serve as a good reason to reduce the SRM quirks on the Huggin back to reasonable levels too.

Edited by Funkin Disher, 20 September 2015 - 05:44 PM.

[MischiefSC]

AC2s have a DPS of 3. A MG DPS of 3 would be broke as ****.

I could make a Mauler build with 2xAC20, 4xMGs, 2xLL with a cool running and easy to maintain DPS of 28.

Yeah, that would be utterly broke as ****.

I'm all for MGs with a steady 1 DPS and no CoF for IS and narrower one for Clans. That would be good. Maybe a small ammo reduction per ton so the total damage/ton is preserved.

[Mcgral18]

MischiefSC, on 20 September 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:

AC2s have a DPS of 3. A MG DPS of 3 would be broke as ****.

I could make a Mauler build with 2xAC20, 4xMGs, 2xLL with a cool running and easy to maintain DPS of 28.

Yeah, that would be utterly broke as ****.

I'm all for MGs with a steady 1 DPS and no CoF for IS and narrower one for Clans. That would be good. Maybe a small ammo reduction per ton so the total damage/ton is preserved.

I'd like to keep the 200 Dam/ton. Still half the TT 400/ton, and the short range does meet the same SRM 200 Damage/ton.

Mechs that use MGs tend not to have much spare tonnage. Lights and Meds mainly.

[Funkin Disher]

Agreed on 200 damage per ton of ammo, all weapons should follow that rule (Gauss notwithstanding).

[Khobai]

Quote

Agreed on 200 damage per ton of ammo, all weapons should follow that rule (Gauss notwithstanding).

200 damage per ton is a good starting place.

Some weapons like the AC/10 just need more ammo per ton to help make up for their other deficiencies though.

[Funkin Disher]

I don't see whats really wrong about the AC/10, seems in a good spot to balance around ATM.

[MischiefSC]

Funkin Disher, on 20 September 2015 - 08:42 PM, said:

I don't see whats really wrong about the AC/10, seems in a good spot to balance around ATM.

.....

Pretty much inferior in every way to AC5s. Ballistic drop, inaccurate at moderate range, slow projectile, 50% heavier than an AC5 in return for less accuracy and only a 33% damage increase (not offsetting the accuracy). You're better off with 2xAC5s, which is 50% more DPS than an AC10 at better range and significantly more accurate at longer ranges while providing the same 10pt hits, all for just 6 more tons.

In every single way AC10 is inferior to either 2xAC5s or 1xAC20.

LB10X is one of the ways that PGI likes to mock us. It's in game so PGI can say they have an LB10X. It is however in every single other way without exception utterly and completely, totally inferior to even a single AC5.

All so that it doesn't invalidate a regular AC10. The result? AC10 and LB10X are both bad choices as a given rule to, well, just about anything.

[FupDup]

MischiefSC, on 20 September 2015 - 08:55 PM, said:

.....

Pretty much inferior in every way to AC5s. Ballistic drop, inaccurate at moderate range, slow projectile, 50% heavier than an AC5 in return for less accuracy and only a 33% damage increase (not offsetting the accuracy). You're better off with 2xAC5s, which is 50% more DPS than an AC10 at better range and significantly more accurate at longer ranges while providing the same 10pt hits, all for just 6 more tons.

In every single way AC10 is inferior to either 2xAC5s or 1xAC20.

LB10X is one of the ways that PGI likes to mock us. It's in game so PGI can say they have an LB10X. It is however in every single other way without exception utterly and completely, totally inferior to even a single AC5.

All so that it doesn't invalidate a regular AC10. The result? AC10 and LB10X are both bad choices as a given rule to, well, just about anything.

The AC/10 isn't sub-par because of the AC/5, it's sub-par because of itself. If you removed the AC/5 from the game it would still be just as mediocre as it always has been.

I would rather use 2 Large Lasers for the same tonnage as AC/10 + ammo, heck I might even be able to squeeze in a 3rd laser for that weight heh. The AC/10 just pays too much for what it gives. It's too heavy to be a secondary weapon, and not punchy enough to be a primary weapon for the weight it takes. Heck, I'd rather use a single Ultra 5 than an AC/10.

Side-note: I also think the IS AC/5 is mediocre, too.

Edited by FupDup, 20 September 2015 - 09:12 PM.

[MischiefSC]

FupDup, on 20 September 2015 - 09:11 PM, said:

The AC/10 isn't sub-par because of the AC/5, it's sub-par because of itself. If you removed the AC/5 from the game it would still be just as mediocre as it always has been.

I would rather use 2 Large Lasers for the same tonnage as AC/10 + ammo, heck I might even be able to squeeze in a 3rd laser for that weight heh. The AC/10 just pays too much for what it gives. It's too heavy to be a secondary weapon, and not punchy enough to be a primary weapon for the weight it takes. Heck, I'd rather use a single Ultra 5 than an AC/10.

Side-note: I also think the IS AC/5 is mediocre, too.

Yep, was just saying compared to other ACs. Lasers > dakka anyway.

The AC10 is an example of all the worst compromises. Ballistic drop, slow projectile speed, mediocre range, slow refire, high weight.

[Funkin Disher]

I must be in a lower skill bracket than you guys, I vastly prefer my hunchy with an AC/10 over a /20.

Its definitely a compromise weapon though, so not very handy given the specialization-build meta.

Edit: As far as range is concerned, I think lowering the max range from 2x to ~1.5 for IS and ~1.25 for clan might help that. Another universal tweak I am wholeheartedly behind.

Edited by Funkin Disher, 20 September 2015 - 09:58 PM.

[LordNothing]

il settle for 0.9 myself.

[Kmieciu]

MischiefSC, on 20 September 2015 - 09:22 PM, said:

Yep, was just saying compared to other ACs. Lasers > dakka anyway.

The AC10 is an example of all the worst compromises. Ballistic drop, slow projectile speed, mediocre range, slow refire, high weight.

Let's not change the subject here. Machineguns are so ineffective, that I prefer to take a DHS or a TC instead of 4xcMG. Machineguns make you do stupid things like charging the enemy when your're running hot (instead of hiding), or staring at the enemy (instead of torso twisting).

I used to have 4xMG on a Nova, but now I know it was a mistake. I got best results during the rounds I did not use them at all.

If you want a close range build, just take 10xSPL. You can jump and deal 60 pinpoint damage before you land. With 10 machineguns, that would take 7.5 seconds of point-blank firing.

If we want the machineguns to be unique, they need to have an enormous crit chance multiplayer. One second burst should be able to destroy all weapons and internal equipment. Because right now, a small or small pulse laser is better both against armor and internal structure.

Edited by Kmieciu, 21 September 2015 - 01:26 AM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

buff pls.

[Karl Streiger]

MischiefSC, on 20 September 2015 - 09:22 PM, said:

Yep, was just saying compared to other ACs. Lasers > dakka anyway.

The AC10 is an example of all the worst compromises. Ballistic drop, slow projectile speed, mediocre range, slow refire, high weight.

Serious?
Advantage of the AC 10 vs AC 5:
better range/speed ration -don't need >1sec to reach max range
AC 10 build run much cooler
you have a adequate alpha in combination with short face time

the only real problematic IS AC weapon is the AC 2 - not enough range to overcome heat and damage problems

[Tahribator]

MischiefSC, on 20 September 2015 - 09:22 PM, said:

The AC10 is an example of all the worst compromises. Ballistic drop, slow projectile speed, mediocre range, slow refire, high weight.

This. It has a rate of fire just high enough to force you to stare at your opponent between shots, but not enough damage to grant it. The shell speed is still annoying and can't be aimed properly at components outside close ranges.

Even the HBK-4H with its ridiculous AC10 quirks never catched on, the weapon is that flawed. People rather go for the 4G or the GI.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Mg's sitting at 1.0 dps would be fine with me.

You guys have to keep in mind. that to get that 1.0 dps you have to be 128 meters.. and you have to be staring at your enemy the entire time, neither of which gives you an advantage unless you have alot of speed, or alot of armor.

[Soldier91]

Davegt27, on 24 December 2014 - 02:49 AM, said:

what is really needed is a weapon in between the MG and the AC2/Cac2 and UAC2

one or two ton weight double the pwr of the MG

There already is, it's clan tech though. Machineguns are pretty sweet though I really like those things.

[xXBagheeraXx]

not sure what you mean, Ive seen lots of new arrows running around murdering people with opened externals in a matter of seconds...Watched one guy that was nearly ct cored drop 5 mechs in a few minutes with only 2 large pulse lasers and 6 machine guns.....