236 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

I don't suppose there's another nerf in the works?

Because it seems they keep getting shafted.



After that particular laser hitreg fix...they were nerfed 20% for some reason. They said it would have similar performance with the fix...that is most certainly not the case.


Before that nerf, they had their crit chance reduced 15%, from 67% to 52%. Barely higher than the 42% of the majority of the other weapons.

That's not totally insignificant, since 15% of crit damage is returned to the IS.




I don't suppose we could see either of those nerfed reversed? Heck, throw Flamers up to 1 DPS like the MGs used to be, as well as returning that value to the MGs. They shouldn't feel like a waste.

As is stands, I feel like I need 8 on the Nova to make a noticeable impact.

[Deathlike]

A buff back to 1 DPS would be sufficient (IOW, undo Paul's preemptive nerf for the laser hitreg fix).

[Davegt27]

what is really needed is a weapon in between the MG and the AC2/Cac2 and UAC2

one or two ton weight double the pwr of the MG

[The Boz]

Davegt27, on 24 December 2014 - 02:49 AM, said:

what is really needed is a weapon in between the MG and the AC2/Cac2 and UAC2

one or two ton weight double the pwr of the MG

Accelerate the schedule and get buffed HMGs or MG arrays in the game?

[TELEFORCE]

I'd like to see machine guns do the same DPS as an AC/2. They both did 2 points of damage a turn on tabletop.

I don't think it would be too much of a problem due to their short range.

[Mercules]

Davegt27, on 24 December 2014 - 02:49 AM, said:

what is really needed is a weapon in between the MG and the AC2/Cac2 and UAC2

one or two ton weight double the pwr of the MG

That would be the Machine Gun. Technically it should be doing 2 damage per shot like an AC/2. If they just gave it the same DPS as the AC/2 with a lower damage and faster rate of fire that would be okay too.

[VixNix]

I think MG's should do nothing until armor is gone...

[Mudhutwarrior]

AC2's need love before MGs in my view. 6 tons of crud with no useable purpose.

[The Boz]

Mercules, on 24 December 2014 - 03:47 AM, said:

That would be the Machine Gun. Technically it should be doing 2 damage per shot like an AC/2. If they just gave it the same DPS as the AC/2 with a lower damage and faster rate of fire that would be okay too.

You do realize that is over THREE TIMES the DPS it has now, right?

[Mercules]

The Boz, on 24 December 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

You do realize that is over THREE TIMES the DPS it has now, right?

You do realize that is WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN TO BEGIN WITH, right?

[The Boz]

Because, again, TT and FPS play exactly the same.
/s

[El Bandito]

Mercules, on 24 December 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

You do realize that is WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN TO BEGIN WITH, right?

While I agree with this sentiment, I do think that almost 4 DPS weapon with no heat, costing mere 0.5 ton and has 2000 ammo, is grossly overpowered due to how hard the Lights are to be killed in the first place. Ember is going to out DPS so many Mediums and even Heavies.

Edited by El Bandito, 24 December 2014 - 05:50 AM.

[Mercules]

The Boz, on 24 December 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

Because, again, TT and FPS play exactly the same.
/s

Because every single other weapon in the game was translated on a 1 shot does X where X is the number on the damage table. Every single one. They might have adjusted a point or two here and there later on, but that is where it started. The MG was the ONLY weapon that was put into the game built around DPS and not Damage/Shot.

"Okay, so here is how we are going to do weapons...... eeeeeeeeeeeexceeeeept for that one right there."

[The Boz]

Lasers don't rake on the tabletop. Also, C-ERPPC, C-AC/UAC, Flamer, etc.

[Mercules]

The Boz, on 24 December 2014 - 05:48 AM, said:

Lasers don't rake on the tabletop. Also, C-ERPPC, C-AC/UAC, Flamer, etc.

Machineguns also get 1k ammo per ton but only expend 1 per 10 second period. They could literally fire for 2.5+ hours before using up a ton of ammo. It would do 2,000 damage over that period of time. The current ratio of damage per ton of ammo in game is 160. You are supposed to buy a ton of MG ammo and feed 4 MGs off of it or 1/2 a ton for two.

The MG is the most heavily ground down weapon in the game other than flamers.
1. Short Range - Shorter range than the Small Laser
2. Constant Fire - In order to deal any damage with them you have to constantly face your opponent and fire your MGs. Lasers might have a burn time, but it is less than a 1/3 of the time so you can at least turn away without losing DPS
3. Ammo Based - They doubled the amount we get but it is still doing far less than in TT. 2 MGs should not burn through 1/2 a ton of ammo in a 15 minute fight much less in a 1 2/3rds minutes.
4. Cone fire - It's random. It's not even like a Clan AC multi-shot but you can direct it with good aim, it's just RNG.
5. Crit Intensive - Because of the reduction in the effectiveness of ammo(by a huge amount) you need 1 crit for each MG and at least 1 for ammo.


An SRM 2 with 1/2 a ton of ammo will do slightly less damage than an MG with a full ton of ammo in shooting and hitting with all of it's shots. However it is fully effective out to 270m while the MGs start to cut out at 120. While it generates heat it also doesn't require you to facetank your enemy to get that DPS. Speaking of DPS, an SRM 2 is 2.5 while an MG is .8.

MGs are woefully underpowered. You could double it's damage and it would still be around half what the SRM 2 does for the same crit space and tonnage in DPS.

[Mercules]

The Boz, on 24 December 2014 - 05:48 AM, said:

Lasers don't rake on the tabletop. Also, C-ERPPC, C-AC/UAC, Flamer, etc.

Lasers can still be maintained on target. MGs have RNG cone of fire. They also do .8 DPS. An SRM 2 with half a ton of ammo takes up as much crit space and weight as an MG but does 2.5 DPS. Doubling the MG's damage would bring it to almost half that of a similar weapon with the only difference being heat. The trade off for heat is that MGs force you to constantly face your opponent. The SRM2's range is also 270 while the MG loses it's pathetic damage after 120m.

Shall we also point out that 2 MGs in TT couldn't burn through 1/2 a ton of ammo in an hour of simulated play but in MWO they go through that in 50 seconds all while doing less damage than their TT equivalent.

The only weapon worse than MGs is flamers and those are supposed to do 2 Damage per turn as well.


EDIT: It looked like the first post was lost so I tried to summarize it. I think I made similar points slightly differently so I'll leave this one up too.

Edited by Mercules, 24 December 2014 - 06:21 AM.

[BSK]

Mercules, on 24 December 2014 - 03:47 AM, said:

Technically it should be doing 2 damage per shot.

Not at all. Technically it was 0.2 damage per round in the TT.

[Foxfire]

While I would like to see a reversion of the preemptive nerf, I wouldn't be opposed to trying out either a significantly reduced, or completely eliminated, CoF.

[Mercules]

BSK, on 24 December 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

Not at all. Technically it was 0.2 damage per round in the TT.

2 damage per ROUND.

.2 damage per SECOND.

10 seconds in a round.

[Mcgral18]

Foxfire, on 24 December 2014 - 06:36 AM, said:

While I would like to see a reversion of the preemptive nerf, I wouldn't be opposed to trying out either a significantly reduced, or completely eliminated, CoF.

Both are nice options. CoF removal would also allow the use of MG range modules; since as it stands the Cone just keeps getting bigger, so the extra range is...minimally effective.