143 replies to this topic

[Major Tom]

Spleenslitta, on 27 June 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

Excuse me but you forgot that there is a mechlab. If you put the Commando in there it can become faster if you want it to.
The same engine in a Commando and a Cicada will give the Commando a 15-25 kph speed advantage if i'm not mistaken due to the weight class difference.
i want 20 ton mechs.

The point being that anything you can do at 25 tons you can do better at 35 tons. Movement speed, weapon payload, armor, everything. That is why I consider 35 tons to be the minimum viable mech weight. Now there are actually thing that you can do better at 35 than 40, which is why 40 isn't the minimum viable weight (just compare the Cicadia to the Jenner)

The TT made concessions for light mechs through drop tonnage, but without that mitigating factor, the commando has no place. It does make me a little sad, because I know the great lengths PGI has gone to for Role Warfare, but there is still a glass basement for mechs and it is 35 tons. (Unless PGI introduces some sort of Elite cash/ton mechanism that somehow allows light mechs to earn more, although it would still be measured against the Jenner)

[Teggs]

Out of this list, I will pilot a Commando for scouting. For one thing, it has the unusual quality of being manufactured domestically in my chosen home, the Taurian Concordat. Also, I dislike Jenners and hope that Ravens will be Capellan faction restricted.

As far as scouting goes, I'm not sure modules are meant to be the be all and end all of the scout role. A lot of light mechs were called scouts in literature, and few of them were tricked out like a Raven. Apparently they could perform this role effectively without enhancement.

But if you want to put an ECM or a Beagle Active Probe on your Commando, then put one. You may have to trade something out for weight, but that goes for all mods.

- Teggs

[Spleenslitta]

Voyager I, on 27 June 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

I was referring to the "nothing left for armor and weapons" part. The thing has the armor of a light mech and the weaponry of a battle armor.

Oh yeah...that. Two medium lasers and one small? That's only 1.2 tons of weaponry on a 40 ton mech.
That's ridicilous.

I plan on dropping the SRM 6 in the Commando COM-2D and put in an ECM system or a spoofer, CASE, one more medium laser and a bigger engine.
Probably need to make a weight saving measure like endo or ferro but it's worth it.

Perfect urban hit & run mech when you only use passive sensors. They rarelly know you're there until it's too late if you do things right with a magnetometer or thermal vision.
By the time they twist their torso to return fire you're long gone.

[Derek Icelord]

I think I should add that arm mounted weapons are supposed to be "a big f-n deal," and the Commando is the only light with arm mounted missiles. Hell, depending on how articulated the Jenner and Raven "stub arms" are, it might be the only light 'Mech with arms.

[Xandre Blackheart]

Major Tom, on 27 June 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

The point being that anything you can do at 25 tons you can do better at 35 tons. Movement speed, weapon payload, armor, everything.

Not everything. Cost is the balancing factor for tonnage. And there are synchronistic sweet spots for certain builds.

But from what I'm hearing about hardpoints, it means that models and their hardpoint allocation are going to trump tonnage to a certain degree.

[Major Tom]

Spleenslitta, on 27 June 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

I plan on dropping the SRM 6 in the Commando COM-2D and put in an ECM system or a spoofer, CASE, one more medium laser and a bigger engine.

Why not go all out and get the mini-nuke launcher or BFG, or get a Raven.
I sincerely respect your role-play choice, I envision my character from the Magistracy of Canopus (alas no Marauder or Shadowhawk), but from a practical standpoint piloting a Commando is akin to running around in battle armor or a (slow) tank.

[CancersCincar]

In my opinion, the Commando will be more of a hit and run 'Mech. While not as fast as the Jenner or the Cicada, it's more than fast enough to outrun most 'Mechs and while make a hard target to hit. If this thing gets behind you, using it's SRMs and its Medium Laser it can easily ruin your rear armor. Personally, I'll stick with the Raven (for it's electronics) or the Jenner (for it's speed), or even the Cicada (for it's speed, proving to be faster than the Jenner, but similar to the Commando in terms of a rear armor wrecker) but I'd give the Commando a try, even if it seems lack-luster to me (it seems like it'd be rather heavily reliant on it's SRM ammo for it's big punch, but variants might be added to provide less ammo reliance).

A lot of people, I've noticed, don't like the Cicada. It's still viable, despite what people think. It's fast, making it a great pick for scouting, and still packs a fair punch. It doesn't need as much armor, because when you're blazing across the field at almost 130 km/h, anything that doesn't lock onto you is going to have a hard time hitting you at all. I can still see where people come from when they say that, for a medium 'Mech, it's poor in design when the Jenner (a light 'Mech) outguns it, and it only runs at roughly ten km/h slower than the Cicada, while having the same amount of armor, but the argument still stands that the Cicada is fast, and can come in, scorch your rear armor, then be burning into someone else's rear armor by the time you spot it.

[Major Tom]

Xandre Blackheart, on 27 June 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

Not everything. Cost is the balancing factor for tonnage. And there are synchronistic sweet spots for certain builds.
But from what I'm hearing about hardpoints, it means that models and their hardpoint allocation are going to trump tonnage to a certain degree.

Here is hoping that a Commando actually earns 140% more C-Bills than a Jenner (and 400% more than an Atlas), as this would change my thinking on the matter. As to hard points, the Commando doesn't have enough tonnage to really take advantage of additional hard points, unlike the Jenner and Raven which also have confirmed arm hardpoints and more tonnage to throw at them.

[Spleenslitta]

Major Tom, on 27 June 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

The point being that anything you can do at 25 tons you can do better at 35 tons. Movement speed, weapon payload, armor, everything. That is why I consider 35 tons to be the minimum viable mech weight. Now there are actually thing that you can do better at 35 than 40, which is why 40 isn't the minimum viable weight (just compare the Cicadia to the Jenner)

The TT made concessions for light mechs through drop tonnage, but without that mitigating factor, the commando has no place. It does make me a little sad, because I know the great lengths PGI has gone to for Role Warfare, but there is still a glass basement for mechs and it is 35 tons. (Unless PGI introduces some sort of Elite cash/ton mechanism that somehow allows light mechs to earn more, although it would still be measured against the Jenner)

You could be right about that. If you are then i'm worried. But then again.....i like the looks on the Commando.
The Firebee is my real favorite like i mentioned earlier and it's a 35 tonner but it's an unseen with a really low chance of getting into MW:O...
No hope for me when it comes to my true favorite so i have to settle for the Commando since it lies closest in looks and weapons loadout.

Thems the breaks.

[Wolftrap]

With hardpoints going like they are u could make a long range missle boat with all the missle hard points the commando has....fast manuearable fire support can never go wrong with that...and the base version has a big enough punch that even heavies need to worry about all those srm's.

[Spleenslitta]

There are two things i have hopes that a lighter end light mech like the Commando can do better than a 35 tonner.-
-Mech turn ratio and torso twist speed.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 27 June 2012 - 10:02 PM.

[Jayboltz]

Everyone keeps commenting on how the commando's speed will be a big factor in how useful it is. Look this is going to be an online competetive game, the commando's speed is going to be negligible. Anyone with experience playing FPS games or the like are going to be able to aim and hit it without a whole lot of difficulty, so the commando's speed isnt going to save it. It may be nimbler than an Atlas, but it's still a big clunky machine that can't stop and go instantly or turn on a dime. It was harder to hit on the boardgame because of the chance factor. I can tell you I will be able to hit this thing with ease, based on the videos I've seen. The only real advantage it will have is maybe the hard points will be good for certain builds, and ofcourse it will be cheap.

Think of the M4 Sherman tank of WW2. Not the best tank by any means, but it still worked and there were a lot of them.

Edited by Jayboltz, 27 June 2012 - 10:06 PM.

[Voyager I]

Wolftrap, on 27 June 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

With hardpoints going like they are u could make a long range missle boat with all the missle hard points the commando has....fast manuearable fire support can never go wrong with that...and the base version has a big enough punch that even heavies need to worry about all those srm's.

The Trebuchet has a pretty solid lock on the "zippy missile boat" category for the time being.

[Spleenslitta]

Jayboltz, on 27 June 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

Everyone keeps commenting on how the commando's speed will be a big factor in how useful it is. Look this is going to be an online competetive game, the commando's speed is going to be negligible. Anyone with experience playing FPS games or the like are going to be able to aim and hit it without a whole lot of difficulty, so the commando's speed isnt going to save it. It may be nimbler than an Atlas, but it's still a big clunky machine that can't stop and go instantly or turn on a dime. It was harder to hit on the boardgame because of the chance factor. I can tell you I will be able to hit this thing with ease, based on the videos I've seen. The only real advantage it will have is maybe the hard points will be good for certain builds, and ofcourse it will be cheap.

There is one limiting factor to this. Even the arms have a limit to how fast they can be aimed and the torso mounted weapons are much slower.
Look at the gameplay video's if you don't believe me. But yes of course the Commando can get hit just like any other mech.

[Jayboltz]

Spleenslitta, on 27 June 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

There is one limiting factor to this. Even the arms have a limit to how fast they can be aimed and the torso mounted weapons are much slower.
Look at the gameplay video's if you don't believe me. But yes of course the Commando can get hit just like any other mech.

You make a good point, however I still think its a non factor here. FYI though, the commando is one of my favorite mechs and I'll definitely be using it a lot, so dont think I'm hating on it.

[Spleenslitta]

I forgot to add something really important to my post #54 above. In the gameplay video you can see a box around the center targeting reticle.
The upper corners of this box are on each side of the compass.
This is most likely the limits to where you can aim your arms. So you have to twist your torso to get this box into position.
This further limits targeting speeds and simplicity.

And remember that when a light mech is close it's faster acceleration, better turn rate and faster torso twist will enable it to get behind an assault and maybe stay there if the light pilot is skillfull enough.
Most of the heavy and assault mechs are tall mechs when compared to a light. They must actually aim downwards quite a bit when facing a light mech at close range.

Jayboltz, on 27 June 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

You make a good point, however I still think its a non factor here. FYI though, the commando is one of my favorite mechs and I'll definitely be using it a lot, so dont think I'm hating on it.

That's allright. We are discussing things here in a civilised fashion. I've seen no bad manners here. We only need to keep in mind that text is not the best form of communication.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 27 June 2012 - 10:20 PM.

[Abagnatius]

I will start with the Jenner obviously. But I have always been more of a fan of humanoid Mechs, so I'll likely focus on Commando eventually.

[grayshirtninja]

I'm going to have to go with a Jenner with a 300XL because I gotta go fast.

[KageRyuu]

Here's the thing, so far the only things you can't change about a mech are it's weapon hard points and whether or not it can use jump jets, GECM and BAP are equipment you can add or substract. Now so far we have to assume that the commando will have energy and missile hard points, maybe with a variant that carries some ballistic hard points as well, and another variant that carries jump jets.

Now, this gives us a mech that's capable of carrying SRMs, LRMs, Lasers and PPCs. Depending on your play style you could keep it as the short range scout it is, or you could possibly make it a long range skirmisher. It's all up to you, but regardless because it's cheap, it'll be cheap to upgrade too, meaning an XL engine won't break the bank, nor will Endo Steel or even Ferro Fiber, and in fact all 3 together would only cost you about a million C-bills according to Mega Mek, while freeing up about 4 tons. Which at first might not sound like a lot, but it allows you to upgrade your missiles or beams, and even throw in some CASE to prevent your mech from going boom.

Any mech is viable, it just depends on how you want to make them and how you want to use them that determines whether it can be done or not.

[Spleenslitta]

KageRyuu, on 27 June 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

Here's the thing, so far the only things you can't change about a mech are it's weapon hard points and whether or not it can use jump jets, GECM and BAP are equipment you can add or substract. Now so far we have to assume that the commando will have energy and missile hard points, maybe with a variant that carries some ballistic hard points as well, and another variant that carries jump jets.

Now, this gives us a mech that's capable of carrying SRMs, LRMs, Lasers and PPCs. Depending on your play style you could keep it as the short range scout it is, or you could possibly make it a long range skirmisher. It's all up to you, but regardless because it's cheap, it'll be cheap to upgrade too, meaning an XL engine won't break the bank, nor will Endo Steel or even Ferro Fiber, and in fact all 3 together would only cost you about a million C-bills according to Mega Mek, while freeing up about 4 tons. Which at first might not sound like a lot, but it allows you to upgrade your missiles or beams, and even throw in some CASE to prevent your mech from going boom.

Any mech is viable, it just depends on how you want to make them and how you want to use them that determines whether it can be done or not.

That is cheap. There is one more thing. It's the lightest mech in the game.
If they put tonnage limitations on how much a company can weigh in a 12vs12 match those 10 tons will come in handy for the rest of the team.