98 replies to this topic

[SaltBeef]

PGI has implemented the 2007 tech manual rules correctly minus the EVIL ghost heat and Clan Auto cannons weakness. LRM damage / streak refire durations and damage for Clans nerfed for Balance of course. They did buff ER LL and LRG Pulse laser damages. I think the Omni pods are spot on.

[Golden Vulf]

Well, the omnipods are not according to rules, but it is something we live with in the name of balance. Mech customization rules are accurate for Inner Sphere Battlemechs, but not for Clan Omnimechs.

It does not stop the top tier Omnimechs from being top tier, it keeps the 5th tier Omnimechs from becoming 3rd tier, is all I'm saying.

If they really wanted to be accurate, whenever you changed the loadout on your battlemech, you'd have to wait 2-3 days before you could use it. Omnimechs could change their loadouts and be ready instantly. I'm sure some players wouldn't find this funny at all.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 29 December 2014 - 12:50 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Golden Vulf, on 29 December 2014 - 12:47 AM, said:

Well, the omnipods are not according to rules, but it is something we live with in the name of balance. Mech customization rules are accurate for Inner Sphere Battlemechs, but not for Clan Omnimechs.

It does not stop the top tier Omnimechs from being top tier, it keeps the 5th tier Omnimechs from becoming 3rd tier, is all I'm saying.

If they really wanted to be accurate, whenever you changed the loadout on your battlemech, you'd have to wait 2-3 days before you could use it. Omnimechs could change their loadouts and be ready instantly. I'm sure some players wouldn't find this funny at all.

What we do to battlemechs would have them down for months.

[Will HellFire]

IS is limited to a few quirked variants that actually have a chance against the Clans.

Clanners have maximum flexibility in their builds, speed, TONNAGE ADVANTAGE in every weapon, range, damage, BETTER XL ENGINES, free case, better heatsinks....

yeah, I can TOTALLY see how IS is better....

..pfff...

[SaltBeef]

No PPFLD , A mech with 4 lasers and 26 dbl heatsinks still overheats! O but hey!,we gots the Blue HUD NEENER!.. NEENER!!NEENER!!!

[Will HellFire]

SaltBeef, on 29 December 2014 - 03:40 AM, said:

No PPFLD , A mech with 4 lasers and 26 dbl heatsinks still overheats! O but hey!,we gots the Blue HUD NEENER!.. NEENER!!NEENER!!!

Well, Imagine if you had the same Mechs with 50% less heatsinks....your argument is a FAIL

[Scratx]

Will HellFire, on 29 December 2014 - 01:52 AM, said:

IS is limited to a few quirked variants that actually have a chance against the Clans.

Clanners have maximum flexibility in their builds, speed, TONNAGE ADVANTAGE in every weapon, range, damage, BETTER XL ENGINES, free case, better heatsinks....

yeah, I can TOTALLY see how IS is better....

..pfff...

Maximum flexibility in their builds... wait, can I put endo-steel on my Nova? *Checks* Oh.

Speed... Oh, my, can my Kit Fox hit 170kph? .... no. *sadface*

Weee, my ERMLs are lighter than medium lasers?... oh, actually not.

My cERLLs are totally awesome with their 740m range, aren't they? *gets hit with isERLL* HEY! Where are you, bugg.... .... *cries as he realises it's a Locust 1V with an ERLL*

At least my lasers do more damage... ... for more heat and a longer beam duration. Hmm... Not sure if want.

Better XL engines... wut? Okay, yeah, they are better. ... They're also the only ones we can use, period. Spheroids have no idea how good they have it being able to tune their speed/tonnage to their desires. Seriously, what I would give to down-engine some of these omnimechs just a tad to get more firepower/equipment in.

And... better heatsinks? Well, sure, smaller. But not lighter or more effective per ton.


Clanners sure look OP. /sarcasm

[Wolfwood592]

I guess most people missed the point of this post....read it as if it was satire

[Kutfroat]

If Clans are not OP (or even just overall a bit better in most aspects)...why is it e.g. [Lord] went Clan? It´s all about lore and character i guess...for sure...or is it, that the "competitive" crowd usually don´t want to "gimp" itself, therefor only using the most OP and broken tools, usually with the justification, everyone else could use the same broken tools to be on the same playingfield.
Just like, if kicks and punches to the groin are not banned in a competetive envirement (except by common sense), lets use it to the point that you see nothing else than kicks and punches to the groin...

Edited by Kutfroat, 29 December 2014 - 06:07 AM.

[Lucian Nostra]

Yokaiko, on 29 December 2014 - 01:14 AM, said:

What we do to battlemechs would have them down for months.

You actually made me wonder how long per upgrade so I booted up Megamek.

Endosteel takes 615 hours to install at 8 hours per shift = 77 days
XL engine takes 120 hours to install = 15 days
Double heatsinks takes 288 hours to install = 36 days

128 total days to install.. hmm.. could you imagine? and that's not factoring in transit times.. you know almost a week to get a dropship to a jump ship... 7 days between jumps.. about another week to get it to the factory to to be refitted.. could easily be another few months just in transit.. than another few months coming back

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 29 December 2014 - 07:30 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

SaltBeef, on 29 December 2014 - 03:40 AM, said:

No PPFLD , A mech with 4 lasers and 26 dbl heatsinks still overheats! O but hey!,we gots the Blue HUD NEENER!.. NEENER!!NEENER!!!

Will HellFire, on 29 December 2014 - 03:57 AM, said:

Well, Imagine if you had the same Mechs with 50% less heatsinks....your argument is a FAIL

Well, the whole point of that could be the way this game plays, it doesnt favor heat management, rather a mass **** storm of fire all at once.

If we had only a 30-50pt heat scale, then the 4lasers and 26 actually double heatsinks vs the IS version of the same loadout, then the Clans would actually come into their own. Alot of the Clans "downsides" are a result of the game's style.

With 4 Lasers and 26Dbls, I assume you mean a 4LPL WHK? Give us a proper heat scale, paired with a game style that was about slower chain firing, you would see the WHK never ending firing the lasers, while an IS replica of the same loadout would be suffering heavily trying to come even close todoing the same thing.

Then mechs like the SUmmoner Prime suffer cuz they main a CERPPC which has been nerfed down due to obscene PPFLD builds in the past and everyone's paranoia about high ass alphas. What we truly need is a lesser heat scale to slow down everyones firing, and change the mentality from FIRE EVERYTHING!!!! to 1 or 2 shots, heat management and properly balanced builds....right now its just a matter of how many guns you can fit in the mech......would help this game feel more like Battletech and less like Call of Duty: Robot Warfare.

[Water Bear]

I'm just waiting to read through the replies looking for the people who thought the OP was really saying that the clans are weaker.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Water Bear, on 29 December 2014 - 07:52 AM, said:

I'm just waiting to read through the replies looking for the people who thought the OP was really saying that the clans are weaker.

The OP sounds like a sarcastic and kinda humorous way to say the Clans are OP and the Clam players are just QQ...

[Water Bear]

Lucian Nostra, on 29 December 2014 - 07:26 AM, said:

You actually made me wonder how long per upgrade so I booted up Megamek.

Endosteel takes 615 hours to install at 8 hours per shift = 77 days
XL engine takes 120 hours to install = 15 days
Double heatsinks takes 288 hours to install = 36 days

128 total days to install.. hmm.. could you imagine? and that's not factoring in transit times.. you know almost a week to get a dropship to a jump ship... 7 days between jumps.. about another week to get it to the factory to to be refitted.. could easily be another few months just in transit.. than another few months coming back

I actually fiddled with the repair / reload tabletop rules. I have a feeling that replacing a mech's structure is the kind of upgrade that a game master might disallow, and it probably comes with severe penalties to the rolls involved. Yes, the game had technicians who had skill levels (green, veteran, regular, elite etc with corresponding target numbers). If your tech failed a roll when you were doing some sort of repair or refit, your mech could a receive a negative quirk (for example, if you were rolling to put a new arm on a mech, if the roll failed weapons in that arm would get +1 or +2 to-hit mods). You could take longer in-game time to reduce the target number for success.

Not really relevant, just some knowledge I have I felt like sharing.

LordKnightFandragon, on 29 December 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

The OP sounds like a sarcastic and kinda humorous way to say the Clans are OP and the Clam players are just QQ...

Yes, that's exactly what it is.

[Alek Ituin]

LordKnightFandragon, on 29 December 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

With 4 Lasers and 26Dbls, I assume you mean a 4LPL WHK? Give us a proper heat scale, paired with a game style that was about slower chain firing, you would see the WHK never ending firing the lasers, while an IS replica of the same loadout would be suffering heavily trying to come even close todoing the same thing.

Then again, boating large energy weapons with adequate cooling capabilities is what the Warhawk was built for. It's got a metric f**kton of locked DHS, and few hardpoints.

Honestly, if some random IS Mech could perform even close to the Warhawk with the same loadout, I'd be incredibly disappointed.

[Water Bear]

As the OP pointed out, all experimental evidence points to clans being better than IS. All the arguments to the contrary don't really make that evidence go away.

If, for example, clan vs. inner sphere matches at similar ELO favor clan players by a margin greater than that expected within say a few standard deviations of error, then you can safely conclude that clans OP. No amount of reasonable or unreasonable web forum posts really contradict that.

[Mazzyplz]

i pilot is mechs and the trial nova sometimes.
even the trial nova wrecks when it goes unchecked.
96 points of damage in a small interval.

both sides aregood.

are we really going to ignore the fact that clan mechs have all their weapons in their arms? that makes it so much better for aiming. and how fast they go etc.

yes IS weapons are better by a tiny margin. so?

[Water Bear]

Mazzyplz, on 29 December 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

i pilot is mechs and the trial nova sometimes.
even the trial nova wrecks when it goes unchecked.
96 points of damage in a small interval.

both sides aregood.

are we really going to ignore the fact that clan mechs have all their weapons in their arms? that makes it so much better for aiming. and how fast they go etc.

yes IS weapons are better by a tiny margin. so?

This is an example. Yes, clan mechs have some down sides. If when you pit clan mechs against is mechs, clan mechs own...then those down sides aren't enough.

[Mazzyplz]

Alek Ituin, on 29 December 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

Honestly, if some random IS Mech could perform even close to the Warhawk with the same loadout, I'd be incredibly disappointed.

quirked awesome energy boat can perform very similar to warhawk energy boat

Water Bear, on 29 December 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

This is an example. Yes, clan mechs have some down sides. If when you pit clan mechs against is mechs, clan mechs own...then those down sides aren't enough.

for me it is mostly the speed! i can't hit them easy :\ it is worse in open maps

as a result now the laser boat is better vs clanner because you can hit them with hitscan even though the beauty of inner sphere is SUPPOSEDLY pinpoint


we should be talking about the firestarter instead IMO though - needs an engine downgrade if you ask me

Edited by Mazzyplz, 29 December 2014 - 08:31 AM.

[Alek Ituin]

Water Bear, on 29 December 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

This is an example. Yes, clan mechs have some down sides. If when you pit clan mechs against is mechs, clan mechs own...then those down sides aren't enough.

My HBK-4P can take Clan Heavies and pimp slap them in to submission. My YLW took out 2 Stormcrows, a Warhawk, crippled a Timberwolf, and some random IS Mech I don't remember.

Both of them can survive encounters like that, but my YLW was a little worse for wear... (read: My YLW had one red leg, no left arm, an orange right arm, both torsos opened, and red CT armor by the end of it all. Torso twisting FTFW.)


Honestly, it all comes down to choosing how and when you attack. If you let the Clan pilot dictate the flow of the battle, you'll lose more often than not. But, if you in your IS Mech can pick and choose when and where you engage, you'll win just about every time. Tactics, positioning, and situational awareness are tools that will allow you to bring the fight to the "superior" Clan Mechs. Learn to use them.

Mazzyplz, on 29 December 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

quirked awesome energy boat can perform very similar to warhawk energy boat

Fair point. But at least the Awesome was designed to boat energy weapons and not overheat like mad. It's an IS analogue to the Warhawk.

So let me rephrase: If a random non-energy boat IS Mech can perform the same as a Warhawk, i'd be disappointed.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 29 December 2014 - 08:31 AM.