330 replies to this topic

[Repasy Cooper]

Strikeshadow, on 06 January 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

So a player who has 1000s of games under his belt wins 1/3 of his games in "balanced" CW matches.....my point stands.

You could have lost 2/3 of those "1000s" of games. Your argument is invalid.

Also, please refrain from double-posting and redact your above post.

Edited by Repasy, 06 January 2015 - 11:13 AM.

[Uncle Totty]

Repasy, on 06 January 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

You could have lost 2/3 of those "1000s" of games. Your argument is invalid.

Also, please refrain from double-posting and redact your above post.

You should also look at HOW those games were won. If 2/3 of your 1/3 wins are do to the other team just not showing up well...

[Uncle Totty]

Repasy, on 05 January 2015 - 10:03 PM, said:

This needs to be settled. Now.


I've seen IS stomp Clans and Clans stomp IS. I've seen Units stomp Pugs and Pugs stomp Units. Balanced.

I have seen Clans stomp IS.

I have seen IS stomp Clans.

I have seen Units stomp Pugs.

I have never seen Pugs stomp Units. (May be I am just that unlucky. )

[Crockdaddy]

Confused ... we ran into a group with a bunch of TDR9S ... we have maybe 2 to 3 in a given Drop deck ... we steam rolled said Davion team running the big TDR groups. However, it is a bit amusing to see clan units have something besides lights to complain about.

Also, to the IS guys complaining ... get grouped and organized ... you will enjoy gaming much more.

[Mao of DC]

Valdherre Tor, on 30 December 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

I also think the Atlas is one of the worst mechs you can bring to CW for attacking.

The Atlas is great for CW. Sure I don't last long in a CW fight BUT while I'm taking hits the other 9-11 players are untouched and are focusing down enemy mechs or getting the objectives. If you want to get 2000 damage and 14 kill with an Atlas good luck because you are going to lose. You win because the enemy is s%^$ing themselves because an Atlas is bearing down on them and they focus only on it. Allowing the rest of your team to do what they came to do.

[Repasy Cooper]

Nathan K, on 06 January 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

I have seen Clans stomp IS.

I have seen IS stomp Clans.

I have seen Units stomp Pugs.

I have never seen Pugs stomp Units. (May be I am just that unlucky. )

Yea, like I followed up before, some units are severely disorganized and some pugs have really good communication & teamwork skills. Getting the two to meet in battle is sort of a "Perfect Storm" event that's rare, but when it happens it becomes evident that the pugs were simply better organized in these cases. I have been lucky to experience this on 3 occasions so far.

Cooperation always trumps individual achievement. Whether you're a pug or unit member does not absolutely determine win/lose.

Consider it this way also: Everybody has their ups & downs. You can't grade anyone with a specific average skill number, you have to take the entire skill range into account. Say you have 2 players with the exact same ELO who play a best of 3 matches. You may get 3 very close matches. Now lets say player 2's skill range is 3-times as wide as player 1's. If player 2 is on top of his game that day he will stomp player 1 into the ground. If player 2's having a rough time he'll get creamed for sure.

Now lets consider 2 other players. Player 1's ELO is half of Player 2's, but their skill ranges overlap. If player 1's at the best of his game and player 2's at the worst, player 2 loses even though his ELO is far superior.

Same goes for units. All units have skill ranges for communication, teamwork, etc. If somebody on the unit is having an off day they can pull everyone else down with them.

So it is possible... it has nothing to do with units vs. pugs, that's just generalizing what's actually happening.

[Biclor Moban]

We know the Clan mechs are better ton for ton. PGI has said as much and they have the real numbers. That's why they have been "balancing" the system. In CW at least we should follow some proceedures to make it more like. I'll say it, lore.

In both Battletech and Mechwarrior Clans units have always had to "bid".

Sarna.net:
Most trials begin with a ritual challenge called a Batchall, where the challenger declares his/her name, the type of trial and other parameters depending on the type of trial. In most trials, the challenger and the challenged then perform bidding for the forces each will use in the battle. Each bid is less than the previous bid, causing both parties to keep undercutting each other until they reach the minimum amount of force. This is partly because to win with fewer forces is more glorious, but also minimizes the military waste created by the trial.

The fact is the way it is now you Clanners are fighting like IS freeborn chaf.

As a member of the Clans you get better hardware and better training and you are honorable. Your "weakness" is supposed to be in your rigidity to proceedure and ceremony.

As IS muts we are suppose to have inferior hardware, varied training, less honor and unconventional (compared to Clans) tatics.

We are the Minutemen you are the Red Coats.

Start acting like the Clanners you are. If you want act like freeborn join us. Join the Wolfs Dragoon's or something.

Clanners say "oh your mechs can be a s good as ours you just need to be a better team or pilot or whatever".

The IS guys are saying " the only reason you are winning is because your mechs are better"

The point is they sould make it like it historically has been on a macro scale, we don't need to micro manage the game. Thier theology is what makes the Clans different from just another marauding house.

You act like Clanners and we will act like the obnoxious freebirths you know and love.


I say make a bidding system for the Clans in CW.
Maybe have each player bid using 4, or 3 or 2 mechs for the whole drop the ones whom have the least get to go first. That said the tonnage allowed wouldn't change, dropships do it by weight right. So if you bid 3 you could take 2 Dires and a Myst Lynx or something. That way the drop would still start at 12 but the total number would be more in keeping with the game.The other thing is the reward would go up for using less mechs. Taking 3 might be a 50% increase in XP and money and a taking 2 might be a 100% increase and taking 1 would be a 200% increase. ( I am going to make a seperate post with just this part.)

3/3/2015. If there is multiple people with same bid winners are chosen by least total tonnage.


Thank you for your time.
Biclor Moban

Edited by Biclor Moban, 03 March 2015 - 12:14 PM.

[0rionsbane]

i think they should just give us a 35 ton buff for a atlas to 275. however it should be effected by the planets gravity. for the clans they could leave them alone, we would have more crabs and atlases for our drop deck and they dont really need any nerfs. but one thing they should do is buff the min weight for is by just 10 tons, this would force just one less light in some cases, our light rush is to strong and needs a nerf if we get our atlas on the field.

[Gyrok]

Strikeshadow, on 30 December 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

Name another 75 ton or lighter mech that I can put 2ERPPCs, 1AC/10 (120 ammo), 5 jjs, 81kph, 1.28 heat mang. and 403 armor other than the TB.... I might just have to buy it if it exists....

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9dd9cdd8c11d66c

Sorry, only 4 JJs, higher heat efficiency though.

EDIT: And that 120 ammo is counted as 4 per volley...so that is really only 2 tons of ammo by my estimations...this mech has 3 tons of ammo.

Edited by Gyrok, 02 March 2015 - 07:11 AM.

[Strykewolf]

Well then, guess that means more targets for me.

[Necromantion]

Another mediocre IS pilot claiming IS mechs suck.

/thread

[Apnu]

Necromantion, on 02 March 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

Another mediocre IS pilot claiming IS mechs suck.

/thread

Some mechs do, some mechs don't.

That's because at least half of the MWO community goes for heavy alpha, front loaded damage. Take, for example, the HBK-4G (AC20, 3xML) and the ENF-4R (AC10, 5xML). Both do the same alpha damage, but the HBK-4G is better at it because its got 20 points of damage in one location. 25 points of the ENF's alpha will be spread most of the time. In terms of brawling the HBK-4G exceeds the ENF-4R in every way.

Having said that, it is possible to take a mediocre IS mech and make it awesome. It just takes a lot of practice.

[Apnu]

JadeTimberwolf, on 05 January 2015 - 11:59 PM, said:

Because of life I am only able to drop on average into 1 or 2 CW matches a night and most of the time those end up being either pure pugs and pugs with roughly a lance worth of 1 unit and in that I have seen both stomp premades more than once, not equally but more than once, Hell there was one pure pug drop I was in where we went against a 12 man Davion unit, We we able to win that match.I feel that the following snipped quote is relatively accurate.

This is exactly why I advocate bringing the Public Queue game modes into CW. There should be a space for people like you (and me, I have random and limited time to play) in CW.

CW divides the community, its becoming the place for large units only. Commentators around these forums echo this endlessly. Exclusivity is the death knell of games.

CW's population problems exist because of the exclusivity and flippant behavior of some players and units. It drives people out, shrinking the population and, in the long run, killing the game.

Pulling Pub. Queue game modes and maps into CW, giving the causals a place to play the game and matter to the IS map makes for a healthy game.

By all means keep a game mode for organized groups and "hard core" players. By all means, give them incentives to play that mode with better c-bill payouts and larger chunks of territory claimed.

Keeping separate queues for CW and Pub matches is silly.

But what about those who want to play mix-tech? Give them Solaris, but the rest should be faction specific mechs and teams.

[Crockdaddy]

Parkensis, on 30 December 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

To follow true lore, the clan should be reduce either in weight drop (less than 240, or augment the IS mechs to 300) or it could be a Drop CW in numbers like 10 clan mech versus 12 IS mechs.

I have been playing CW for weeks now and we can see these battles against the clan mech are not balanced! They are faster, stronger, sturdier and better that any IS mech or group combined and rigthfully so!

But in Battletech (Mechwarrior) lore the clans have ways to respect. Like the Star system of drops, the chalenges, the bids, etc... They were ultimatly vanquished bit their code of honor and disipline and more. Here in this game the players (for most of them) have none of that to follow making this an uneven fight...

So until this is changed, I vote IS side boycotts CW altogether!
For myself I will no longer play CW until this is done proper!

Park.

The greater issue has to do with unit coordination. A well coordinated unit will defeat all clan pugs and get a split if not outright wins vs organized units.

Unless you are facing
LORDS, EMP, JDx, 228th, or SJR ... you should have a chance if you are organized, on comms and know the IS Quirk system (this is part of the problem).

I realize Night's Scorn is a more competitive unit but our overall winning percentage against the clans is around 100% against pug clans ... and I'd say 80% against Organized Clan units. The only losses I was part of were LORDS, JGx (we split most battles) and maybe a 228 drop.

My point is ... we run IS mechs and it can be done. If you want to know how, PM me or stop by the House Kurita Team Speak to learn how. This is an honest offer to help out IS pilots learn the ropes in CW and how to best face the clan invaders. We at NS absolutely know what we are doing when fighting the clans. WE do more than just light rush for the record. Other HK units win as well. We want all inner sphere units and pugs to be stronger against the clan invaders.

ts.nstalkers.com
nstalkers.com
ts3server://House-Kurita.enjinvoice.com

[Scout Derek]

More... of this... crap...

Please... no more... you make the game smell....

[pbiggz]

lol 17 pages of victim complex.

[Gyrok]

CrockdaddyAoD, on 02 March 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

The greater issue has to do with unit coordination. A well coordinated unit will defeat all clan pugs and get a split if not outright wins vs organized units.

Unless you are facing
LORDS, EMP, JDx, 228th, or SJR ... you should have a chance if you are organized, on comms and know the IS Quirk system (this is part of the problem).

I realize Night's Scorn is a more competitive unit but our overall winning percentage against the clans is around 100% against pug clans ... and I'd say 80% against Organized Clan units. The only losses I was part of were LORDS, JGx (we split most battles) and maybe a 228 drop.

My point is ... we run IS mechs and it can be done. If you want to know how, PM me or stop by the House Kurita Team Speak to learn how. This is an honest offer to help out IS pilots learn the ropes in CW and how to best face the clan invaders. We at NS absolutely know what we are doing when fighting the clans. WE do more than just light rush for the record. Other HK units win as well. We want all inner sphere units and pugs to be stronger against the clan invaders.

ts.nstalkers.com
nstalkers.com
ts3server://House-Kurita.enjinvoice.com

This is true. CWDG has split several against NS on a few occasions where they ventured off to our borders to defend. Solid unit, and proof the IS is absolutely fine...

[Crockdaddy]

Gyrok, on 02 March 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

This is true. CWDG has split several against NS on a few occasions where they ventured off to our borders to defend. Solid unit, and proof the IS is absolutely fine...

I think GYROK the issue is one of clan pugs vs IS pugs. Clan pugs out of the box have vastly better mechs. With IS you HAVE to know the quirk system and that system isn't obvious unless you read forums or patch notes.

[Time Bandit]

Meh, personally I'd rather fight clan mechs than IS. A murder of Stormcrows is more fun than going "uhhh did a light get by us?"

[Yokaiko]

pbiggz, on 02 March 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

lol 17 pages of victim complex.

I should trademarke that comment.

CrockdaddyAoD, on 02 March 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

I think GYROK the issue is one of clan pugs vs IS pugs. Clan pugs out of the box have vastly better mechs. With IS you HAVE to know the quirk system and that system isn't obvious unless you read forums or patch notes.

Or hover over the mech in the mechlab, its right there on the load readout.