330 replies to this topic

[Cerberias]

Are they? They're higher heat per damage, and a weapon is weighted depending on where the beam is coming from surely? A weapon from a knee wouldn't be worth as much as a stalker arm mounted weapon as it's much easier to bring to bear on the enemy. Then you've got quirks which for some mechs reduce the stats down for IS even further.. I'd say that some IS chassis/weapons are far better than the clan equivalent.

[Ghogiel]

Clan weapons are better. For the most part at least> apart from gauss, clan ballistics aren't considered as good as their IS counterparts.

[Vassago Rain]

Cerberias, on 03 January 2015 - 11:46 PM, said:

Are they? They're higher heat per damage, and a weapon is weighted depending on where the beam is coming from surely? A weapon from a knee wouldn't be worth as much as a stalker arm mounted weapon as it's much easier to bring to bear on the enemy. Then you've got quirks which for some mechs reduce the stats down for IS even further.. I'd say that some IS chassis/weapons are far better than the clan equivalent.

The only inferior clan weapon is the UAC line. They're ammo reliant laser weapons. Everything else is stronger, has better range, less weight, uses less crits, has side effects, or a combination.

[B0oN]

You didn´t factor in heat which is one of the key factors in this game, isnt it, Vassago ?
You als didnt factor in unconstrained moddability of IS machinery .

Tsk tsk tsk, bias, bias everywhere .

[Lily from animove]

stop playing OP clanners, and start playing lynx, nova, summoner, adder, ferret.

tdr and banshee are also some of the ebst mechs, I sometimes wonder how people cosntantly makign those threads actually play. can't even be that good.

Edited by Lily from animove, 04 January 2015 - 06:19 AM.

[Yokaiko]

R Razor, on 03 January 2015 - 09:25 PM, said:

Like the TDR9S........not many others that can fight them on near equal terms at range. If they get their way, that won't be around long either.

Awesome 9M

1020 Optimal with ER-PPCs

[Pat Kell]

People who can't aim shouldn't be able to post....Tired of posts like this that ask to nerf clans or nerf IS when the fact is, the balance is good right now. If you are loosing, it's because you can't aim...period. Stop trying to ruin this game. You claim that clans are OP...try advancing on the wall of PPC fire that an organized team such as MS can lay down and then talk to me about OP. Not saying nerf TBolts at all, just saying that IS has a good chance at winning if you pull you're collective heads out of you're backsides and communicate a bit. Silly nerf bat people anyway.

[R Razor]

Yokaiko, on 04 January 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

Awesome 9M

1020 Optimal with ER-PPCs

Assault vs Heavy.............right now the TDR is a good offset for the Timbercrutch and the Vomitcrow.........the Crab is a decent counter to the Whale. If these folks cry long and hard enough they'll get PGI to nerf it and regain their easier win games........that's all they really want after all.

[Mystere]

R Razor, on 04 January 2015 - 02:48 PM, said:

Assault vs Heavy.............right now the TDR is a good offset for the Timbercrutch and the Vomitcrow.........the Crab is a decent counter to the Whale. If these folks cry long and hard enough they'll get PGI to nerf it and regain their easier win games........that's all they really want after all.

How is that really different from the initial IS whining about Clans, or the earlier whinefests about the gauss, (ER)PPC, poptarts, or (gasp!!!!) LRMs?

Much of the player base is like a bucket of crabs. To get ahead, one claws the others down.

[R Razor]

Mystere, on 04 January 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

How is that really different from the initial IS whining about Clans, or the earlier whinefests about the gauss, (ER)PPC, poptarts, or (gasp!!!!) LRMs?

Much of the player base is like a bucket of crabs. To get ahead, one claws the others down.

It's not......and that's the point. When the IS was complaining about the power and ability of the Holy Trinity (when first released) all you heard from Clanners is insults and "stop crying" posts.........now that the shoe is on the other foot, a good percentage of HYPOCRITES are coming out in DROVES and whining as loud (or louder) than the IS guys did initially.......and about ONE SINGLE MECH on top of that. I can only imagine how bad the Clanners in this game would have screamed if a Medium had received a similar boost that brought them to near equal to the Crow.......some are even crying about the Crab, How quickly the shoe on the other foot changes things. And the worst part of all is that the shoe really isn't on the other foot......I doubt a 9S can out fight a Timberwolf in a one on one with equal pilot skills........the Timby still has the broken JJ HSR issue on its side and packs more punch than the 9S does. And the IS has absolute ZERO medium mechs that can stand toe to toe with the Crow.

[Mystere]

R Razor, on 04 January 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

It's not......and that's the point. When the IS was complaining about the power and ability of the Holy Trinity (when first released) all you heard from Clanners is insults and "stop crying" posts.........now that the shoe is on the other foot, a good percentage of HYPOCRITES are coming out in DROVES and whining as loud (or louder) than the IS guys did initially.......and about ONE SINGLE MECH on top of that. I can only imagine how bad the Clanners in this game would have screamed if a Medium had received a similar boost that brought them to near equal to the Crow.......some are even crying about the Crab, How quickly the shoe on the other foot changes things. And the worst part of all is that the shoe really isn't on the other foot......I doubt a 9S can out fight a Timberwolf in a one on one with equal pilot skills........the Timby still has the broken JJ HSR issue on its side and packs more punch than the 9S does. And the IS has absolute ZERO medium mechs that can stand toe to toe with the Crow.

It's less hypocrisy and more crab mentality. And it is behavior learned and subsequently reinforced from previous successful whine fests.

Edit:

After thinking a little bit more, it's probably equal parts of both.

Edited by Mystere, 04 January 2015 - 03:42 PM.

[Ghogiel]

R Razor, on 04 January 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

It's not......and that's the point. When the IS was complaining about the power and ability of the Holy Trinity (when first released) all you heard from Clanners is insults and "stop crying" posts.

Nope. Not even remotely accurate.

From day 1 this is what every single comp player in the game said when clans were released>

"lolololol TBRs are so OP broken lolololol" and proceeded to demonstrate that fact.

[Khobai]

Quote

Are they? They're higher heat per damage,

I like how you completely ignored how clan weapons have upto 50% more range. The CERML has 50% more range than the ISML. So of course clan weapons have higher heat per damage; that extra range has to get paid for by extra heat.


But still if you do a side by side comparison...

ISML = 5 damage, 4 heat, 270m range, 0.9s duration, 3.0 cooldown.

CERML = 7 damage, 6 heat, 405m range, 1.15s duration, 3.0 cooldown


Its pretty obvious the CERML is not only better, but absurdly better. The CERML is definitely the #1 problem with clan weapon balance.Virtually every clan meta build spams CERMLs for a reason. If you want to nerf clans thats the place to start.

Edited by Khobai, 04 January 2015 - 07:09 PM.

[Cerberias]

I like how you ignore both hardpoint locations and quirks. For example the clan ERPPC might school the IS ERPPC on paper, but when it's fired from a tbolt9s for ~5.5 heat per shot, from high mounted hardpoint locations, it absolutely destroys the clan equivalent.

Tbolt 9ss, erlarges can get 911m range, out of high hardpoints, for 6.8 heat per shot, schooling its clan equivalent.

Stalker 4n, largelas with 28% reduced cooldown, 588m range, ~5.1 heat per shot, coming out of super high mounted hardpoints with amazing durability - producing much higher sustained fire than the clan equivalent for slightly lower range (although you can mount erlarge on the same chassis and do very well also).

Raven 3L, might not get the best quirks, but it's profile is virtually unhittable if played well (although 99% of people are terrible in it, as with all other mechs).

Once again, only a bad player thinks the clan are OP.

Edit: I'd love for ghost heat to be removed, it'd mean my 6 largelas stalker would be incredible again, 54 pt alphas for ~31 heat at ~600m range all day.

Edited by Cerberias, 04 January 2015 - 07:20 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Awesome location you're at... testifies your deep understanding of the core mechanics.

Honestly I have to question your understanding of the game's core mechanics if you think ghost heat was a good thing.

Ghost heat was by far the worst band aid fix ever implemented in this game's history.

[Yokaiko]

Khobai, on 04 January 2015 - 10:28 PM, said:

Honestly I have to question your understanding of the game's core mechanics if you think ghost heat was a good thing.

Ghost heat was by far the worst band aid fix ever implemented in this game's history.

+1

So SO bad.

.......don't fix convergence,

[Mystere]

Yokaiko, on 04 January 2015 - 10:35 PM, said:

.......don't fix convergence,

Yes. Instead, remove it completely. Non-arm weapons should fire straight and each weapon should be individually aimed.

[Cerberias]

Actually agree with that one, but could you imagine the pugs? They'd make even less damage than they do now.. That'd just about make me cry.

[Donas]

Mystere, on 04 January 2015 - 11:07 PM, said:

Yes. Instead, remove it completely. Non-arm weapons should fire straight and each weapon should be individually aimed.

I know its a sidetrack, but I'd go the other way. Make torso mounted weapons non-convergeable, and arm mounted ones (that have actuators and such) convergeable. You'd have to aim the torso ones (and pinpoint alpha with them would be impossible if they were in separate torso areas), but the arm ones would be a little more flexible.

{Hopping out of the hijack seat.}

[Lily from animove]

Khobai, on 04 January 2015 - 06:59 PM, said:

I like how you completely ignored how clan weapons have upto 50% more range. The CERML has 50% more range than the ISML. So of course clan weapons have higher heat per damage; that extra range has to get paid for by extra heat.


But still if you do a side by side comparison...

ISML = 5 damage, 4 heat, 270m range, 0.9s duration, 3.0 cooldown.

CERML = 7 damage, 6 heat, 405m range, 1.15s duration, 3.0 cooldown


Its pretty obvious the CERML is not only better, but absurdly better. The CERML is definitely the #1 problem with clan weapon balance.Virtually every clan meta build spams CERMLs for a reason. If you want to nerf clans thats the place to start.

wrong, because you have a fixed heat treshold and this is what you cna shred mechs with.

so with 60 heat treshold your IS mech can do 75 dmg and you clanmech only 70. Clanners are less heat efficient in dmg/heat, they have actually the better lasers. metalasers are medium lasers, and clanmeta is medium alses because they are the ONLY medium lasers being efficient in tonnage, don't forgte clanners don't have access to regular M-las. Give me standard Mlasers 5 dmg 4 heat on my nova pls. that would be epic (ok not totally because they would be ugly green and not yellow anymore :/ ).
This would also balance many clan lights that are ******, because the lights can not cool, the clan medium ER lasers, and yet they can not access regular medium lasers.
I don't think any of the IS lights would mount CERML if they hhave access to, because they would run hot after 2 volleys being uselss.

And so i wonder a lot more about your game core mechanic undertsanding, because heat efficiency is the core about what weapons are a valid choice. but CERML aren't good, bad beam duration, bad heat, and those 50 range do not help if you are within 100% damage range, then you just waste heat for no advantage.