20 replies to this topic

[Cellinor]

Well....I have been trying to get my 25 CW prizes before the 2nd of January and have learned a thing or two lol.

Clans have updated their tactics. I have faced off against a lot of Smoke Jaguar and Jade Falcons lately and have been completely schooled.

It started with Defending (zone did not matter):
several matches with the only win coming against the Wolves (although many games were very close).

Clan Attacking Tactics - hammer defending IS mechs to gain numerical advantage. Pay no attention to Generators until end at which time it no longer mattered. Win match with plenty of time to spare. Some of the matches ended with the defender spawn point getting camped, but most of the games were good. IS though has little room for error imo.

Clan Defending Tactics - camp gate...chew up IS attackers...win numbers game...counter attack...WIN!

IS Attacking Tactics - pick a gate & break through...ignore defending Mechs...go for Generators...get slaughtered...spawn...get slaughtered at or near spawn point.

IS Defending Tactics - find point to watch for initial attack. Harass. Brawl! Maybe win...maybe lose.

I know that is simplistic but truth be told it is pretty close to what I have seen recently.

Thoughts?

[SuomiWarder]

Pretty much what I have seen. Although our Clan brethren players will usually claim that they have no advantage and lose and it has nothing to do with their mechs.

The light swarm is the only IS tactic I have seen take down the generators and cannon - against any defender IS or Clan.

[Lbofun]

I mean if we can get a good group in close for some brawling we can win the heat game. Clan mechs are not as good at cooling as the IS mechs can be. Problem bring is the range game we need to use more ecm and more cover and PUGs need to learn you can not win the poke game with clans.

I have been in some matchs where we brawled them as soon as the gate dropped ( they did not expect that)

[Rebas Kradd]

Sulfur map is more manageable. With that map, you don't have 12 defenders able to swamp both gates at the same time from long range.

With Boreal, it's practically impossible. The positions necessary to open the gates are wide open to enemy sniper fire, and since their fire is on you while your fire is on the generator, guess who wins.

Once the gates are open, you can get inside and into cover. But then you have to deal with people stopping IN WIDE OPEN SPACE to brawl with some Stalker because they don't comprehend the phrase "keep moving". Therefore they block their entire team behind them. And if they do get past the gate and into cover, you can be sure they'll hole up at the bottlenecks to the upper terrace as the first wave of defender respawns shows up, instead of pushing past.

The best strat I've seen so far is to split up into two groups, hammer both gates, pull back, rush six through one gate, and then rush six through the other after a delay of 60 seconds or so, hopefully under ECM coverage. That might get most of the enemy going after one group without realizing the other's there. Might. Alternatively, the second group could be all ECM lights. And in all this, DON'T KILL ANYONE. No geniuses giving away their groups' position with greedy or impatient peeking. Even if they get your team some kills, that will only ensure defender respawns will be waiting for you on the hill. Leave them desperately chasing you, it'll give you more space.

But good luck pulling that off with pugs. It's actually comical how many permutations of "things going wrong" can occur.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 31 December 2014 - 02:17 PM.

[InspectorG]

Its not about mechs, its about coordination. And numbers.

IS will win more if it finds a way to get pugs on TS.

People think CW is Skirmish/Assault with 3 extra lives. Thats problem #1.

#2 personal skill < group skill.

#3 is sub-optimal loadouts, 'fun builds' generally wont hack it in CW...too much organization to contend with..

#4 Neither Clan or IS is OP. They are fairly balanced. Complainers on either side cant or wont see this fact. Look at what Comp players use. They wont use anything underpowered unless it has some super benefit. Scrubs misconstrue skill for mechs. They dont bother to read the Clan threads about needing to nerf IS lights, Thuds,ETC.

[Farix]

The BAGrs have done pretty well against Clan units. It just the organized comp. teams that we get stomped all over. And our general tactics are very similar to what the OP describe. First wave is to get at least two gates open, kill as many enemy mechs as possible and do as much damage to the base's defense grid. Second wave is to do more damage to the defense grid, kill more enemy mechs and take out most of the generators. Third wave is to completely take down the generators and start firing on Omega. Also, kill more enemy mechs. Last wave we used multiple tricks to reach Omega while distracting the defenders from the main attacking force.

[nitra]

heh ... tactics, i know we have been awaiting along tome for cw.

but i wouldn't call the option available to us tactics , more like that old game show Lets Make a Deal,

except behind each door is usually pain and misery.

[Febrosian R Gillingham]

Play IS attack defend exactly as you have described clans playing - stay at range and try to outtrade the enemy until you have enough of an advantage to slowly work your way in. IS can absolutely trade with clans at range using ERPPC Thunderbolt 9S's (put erppc's in the right torso first as these are very high-mounted). You barely have to peek over cover to get a shot off and you are incredibly heat efficient. Anything with high mounted ballistic or energy weapons can do this vs clans, as most clan mechs have low-mounted weapons. Just make sure to peek as little as possible, take your shot, and drop down.

Bonus that if enough people on your team bring long-range loadouts to a game, you don't actually need as much coordination as the game becomes more about individual shooting/trading ability. This makes things more pug-friendly since you are less focused and dependent on movement. Of course against an organized opponent you will need to organize better, but for general play going long range (especially on Boreal) helps out a ton.

[R Razor]

Surprised it made it all the way to post #5 before the first "It's not the mechs" blabber came out.


I'll play again once PGI balances their game.

[The Massive]

Inspector G nailed it. The most co-ordinated team wins. Pugs get on ts even if only to listen. Or pay attention to chat. Many a near win would be turned into an actual win if two or three mechs were paying attention to chat.

[Redacted]

Edited by John Wolf, 06 January 2015 - 06:15 AM.
Focus on topics, not players

[R Razor]

Maccasimus, on 31 December 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

Inspector G nailed it. The most co-ordinated team wins. Pugs get on ts even if only to listen. Or pay attention to chat. Many a near win would be turned into an actual win if two or three mechs were paying attention to chat.

[Redacted]

The only thing I "whing" is fire downrange..........and what you want is immaterial. Spend some money on the game yourself, a lot of us that have been doing it are done until PGI gets it right. Pretty soon it'll just be you and the clanners you love so much. Have fun with that.

Edited by John Wolf, 06 January 2015 - 06:15 AM.
Moderated quote

[StillRadioactive]

Febrosian R Gillingham, on 31 December 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

Play IS attack defend exactly as you have described clans playing - stay at range and try to outtrade the enemy until you have enough of an advantage to slowly work your way in. IS can absolutely trade with clans at range using ERPPC Thunderbolt 9S's (put erppc's in the right torso first as these are very high-mounted). You barely have to peek over cover to get a shot off and you are incredibly heat efficient. Anything with high mounted ballistic or energy weapons can do this vs clans, as most clan mechs have low-mounted weapons. Just make sure to peek as little as possible, take your shot, and drop down.

Bonus that if enough people on your team bring long-range loadouts to a game, you don't actually need as much coordination as the game becomes more about individual shooting/trading ability. This makes things more pug-friendly since you are less focused and dependent on movement. Of course against an organized opponent you will need to organize better, but for general play going long range (especially on Boreal) helps out a ton.

This is absolutely true if you have 12 and you can coordinate the dropdeck before the match starts.

If you've got 6 or less and you're counting on pugs to fill in the rest, you have to go the opposite way if you're fighting Clanners. Load up the brawl deck and bring a scout. Have the scout find the enemy way in advance and have your brawlers camp the chokepoint farthest from Omega along that path. Wait for the Clanners to breach said chokepoint and then get your brawlers right in the middle of their muderball and AC/20 or wub their legs into oblivion.

When you're commanding pugs, the more chaos you can sow in the enemy's plans the better. Remember, the more organized team usually wins so you have to plan to disrupt their organization.

Lbofun, on 31 December 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

I mean if we can get a good group in close for some brawling we can win the heat game. Clan mechs are not as good at cooling as the IS mechs can be. Problem bring is the range game we need to use more ecm and more cover and PUGs need to learn you can not win the poke game with clans.

I have been in some matchs where we brawled them as soon as the gate dropped ( they did not expect that)

Beautiful. I'm a big fan of doing exactly that.

[StillRadioactive]

R Razor, on 31 December 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

The only thing I "whing" is fire downrange..........and what you want is immaterial. Spend some money on the game yourself, a lot of us that have been doing it are done until PGI gets it right. Pretty soon it'll just be you and the clanners you love so much. Have fun with that.

I've been running groups of 4-6 for both IS vs IS and IS vs clan for weeks now. My win rate is higher against clanners than it is against IS.

It ain't the 'mechs bro.

[Caustic Canid]

Playing clans attacking on boreal the other night, my group had just started attacking one gate when the IS team inside jumped the other gate and swarmed us with 6 fast lights. They got a good 4 kills on our heavier first wave, and shook up most of the pug pilots. It was pretty much downhill for us from that point as pugs tend to take heavier (read: non trial) mechs first.

[Dawnstealer]

I've been tossing the "heat thing" over a bit. I'm wondering if a brawlers mixed with flamer-equipped Lights might not blaance things out. If only flamers didn't generate more heat than they caused...

*cough, cough*

[StillRadioactive]

Dawnstealer, on 31 December 2014 - 05:41 PM, said:

I've been tossing the "heat thing" over a bit. I'm wondering if a brawlers mixed with flamer-equipped Lights might not blaance things out. If only flamers didn't generate more heat than they caused...

*cough, cough*

Yeah, flamers need a buff. As-is, if I see a flamer on my side I want to smack whoever brought it.

[InspectorG]

R Razor, on 31 December 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

I'll play again once PGI balances their game.

That will likely never happen to your satisfaction.

Have you dropped Clan in CW yet? Have you played as part of a skilled 12man on TS?

Have you read the Clansmen's complains about 'poor balance' and OP IS?

[InspectorG]

StillRadioactive, on 31 December 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

I've been running groups of 4-6 for both IS vs IS and IS vs clan for weeks now. My win rate is higher against clanners than it is against IS.

It ain't the 'mechs bro.

HAHAHA! Clans OP!!!! Nerf!!! HAHAHAHAHA! This F***IN GUY...

[Mystere]

Quote

Is Needs To Update Their Tactics

[Budor]

Its really hard to give any tactical advice for solo drops as you will not be able to coordinate the dropdeck/strategy with your team 11/10 times. Anyways, below is what i think might be helpfull.

- the map you will be playing on is determined by the zone shown to the left in the lobby, odd numbers are Boreal, even are Sulfur. Whereever the Sword/Shield symbol is starting on the bottom left: 1st=Boreal, 2nd=Sulfur, 3rd=Boreal aso. You want range on boreal and you dont want to shutdown in melee on Sulfur, adjust your deck accordingly. (credit to friendly Seraphim pilot for determining the map, god bless)
- stop dropping with LRMs on every mech
- if you really need to bring LRMs do it on the 2nd drop, it would be better to just not bring them
- take a long range mech first, anything that is strong at peeking and trading (high mounts and/or jumpjets) will do
- if you get outtraded/lose on kills readjust the whole team for rushing objectives
- if you are up on kills be aggressive
- communicate via chat, be friendly, agree on a plan

- buy, master and play the cheesiest loadouts. If you brought subpar mechs/loadouts and lost you have no right to complain

- accept the following and you will have more fun:

Against any coordinated team that is not drunk and is determined to win it is;

1) not possible to defend on Sulfur.
2) hard to attack on Boreal.
3) slightly easier to defend on Boreal.
4) much easier than all of the above to win on Sulfur if you work as a team and concentrate on the objectives.

Happy New Year!

Edited by Budor, 31 December 2014 - 07:09 PM.