287 replies to this topic

[Mao of DC]

CyclonerM, on 12 January 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

I do not wish it to be removed. I just want to wait to fight the other Clans once we have an IlClan - then i would expect a big Warden vs Crusader war, and that would be cool, quiaff? Just a matter of priority. Terra, first. Then, all the skirmishes we want.

Did it every occur to the RPing wolves that the merc unit CI is in it's own way RPing? You're think that's BS, not really You see I am a founding member of The Comstar Irregulars. I wrote our history and helped set up our internal structure so I know what CI is really about. We have been accused of acting disloyal. Disloyal, I ask to whom? Every member of the unit is loyal to the Unit. Who is the unit loyal to? Now there is a good question, I give you a hint COMSTAR Irregulars. If you don't think we are acting in a manner consistent with Comstar you don't know your Lore. Comstar played both sides until Terra was directly threatened.

On a different note I would like to point out a bit of irony plaguing the Clan wolf RPers. Clan Wolf in lore was successful because they understood the IS better than the other clans. Thanks to the scouting party they sent ahead the Wolf's Dragoons a Merc Corp. But also because wolf leadership had open minds and were willing to change to achieve the goals.
The Irony is the MWO Wolf leadership were so closed-minded to the realities of CW and the power merc units would have that it seems they are losing the war entirely.

I may get in trouble but I'm going to tell you guys some about how CI works. When CW was announce we took a vote in CI as to where and how we would play CW. First was weather to go IS , Clan or switch. Switch won, then we voted on which house/clan to go to first. FRR won (why I don't know) but HANDS DOWN we all wanted to work for Wolf next. When CI came to Clan Wolf we were rebuffed by every unit we could contact. The best offer we got was, "You can be our bondsmen" the worst was just a two word unprintable send off. The leadership was stunned and a little hurt by people who they were offering help to. So they moved on and shopped our help to their competitors and someone took the offered help and gained for it.

Edited by Mao of DC, 12 January 2015 - 02:54 PM.

[Alexander Steel]

CyclonerM, on 12 January 2015 - 02:12 PM, said:

And if you are so against a pure reenactement of the invasion from the lore, why should we not try to learn from the Clan's mistakes in the lore?

I'm more than happy for people to learn from their mistakes or to make bigger ones. I have no problem if people fight against the lore or go with it. My stance has always been, the option is up to the players all of them. If Joe Smith wants to RP his guy as a kill the falcons wolf, go for it. If Jane Doe wants to make deals not to attack falcons and bears and all the clans work together, sure! If Mike wants to see if he can lead House Liao to a massive upset and take most of the Fed Suns territory? Awesome!

If everybody who flies clan Wolf colors agrees to your vision, then that's wonderful. However those that don't shouldn't be forced to play the way you want them to.

[Dawnstealer]

I don't think the Clans should be able to have mercs AT ALL. I mean, come on...the Clans? Taking mercs? No. No, no, no.

[Alexander Steel]

Dawnstealer, on 12 January 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

I don't think the Clans should be able to have mercs AT ALL. I mean, come on...the Clans? Taking mercs? No. No, no, no.

I can't help but think that's a pretty self interested position. If the Clans were prevented from using mercs they would get crushed pretty hard. I can also understand why Wolf wants to handicap the other clans to the same level they are at.

[Gyrok]

Mao of DC, on 12 January 2015 - 02:52 PM, said:

Did it every occur to the RPing wolves that the merc unit CI is in it's own way RPing? You're think that's BS, not really You see I am a founding member of The Comstar Irregulars. I wrote our history and helped set up our internal structure so I know what CI is really about. We have been accused of acting disloyal. Disloyal, I ask to whom? Every member of the unit is loyal to the Unit. Who is the unit loyal to? Now there is a good question, I give you a hint COMSTAR Irregulars. If you don't think we are acting in a manner consistent with Comstar you don't know your Lore. Comstar played both sides until Terra was directly threatened.

On a different note I would like to point out a bit of irony plaguing the Clan wolf RPers. Clan Wolf in lore was successful because they understood the IS better than the other clans. Thanks to the scouting party they sent ahead the Wolf's Dragoons a Merc Corp. But also because wolf leadership had open minds and were willing to change to achieve the goals.
The Irony is the MWO Wolf leadership were so closed-minded to the realities of CW and the power merc units would have that it seems they are losing the war entirely.

I may get in trouble but I'm going to tell you guys some about how CI works. When CW was announce we took a vote in CI as to where and how we would play CW. First was weather to go IS , Clan or switch. Switch won, then we voted on which house/clan to go to first. FRR won (why I don't know) but HANDS DOWN we all wanted to work for Wolf next. When CI came to Clan Wolf we were rebuffed by every unit we could contact. The best offer we got was, "You can be our bondsmen" the worst was just a two word unprintable send off. The leadership was stunned and a little hurt by people who they were offering help to. So they moved on and shopped our help to their competitors and someone took the offered help and gained for it.

Could not be farther from the truth...

I was one of the ones discussing things with you guys...then next thing I know...everything is supposed to be kosher, and then you are at GB and hitting us, after we had discussed you coming to join us. Which was the exact opposite of my expectation, so please do clarify how we do not understand backstabbing at the most obvious point?

We clearly understand mercs, most of you have shown you cannot be trusted. In order for me to accept an approach by mercs at this point, it would require a long conversation with total clarification of what is expected of both sides. I am not opposed to such things, however, I wonder if it is even worth my time to bother? Everyone has their own agenda, I just wonder how long it will be until some loose cannon tries to put a dagger in our backs...?

I have zero qualms with merc units coming to help...and welcome them to coordinate with us. However, that should be a coordinated effort, otherwise it is wasted effort.

EDIT: Furthermore, there was never a council of khans meeting adjourned to discuss said offer, as this was even before that body had formed.

As for you guys coming to Wolf. Let me make something clear. If I give you my word, I honor it. If you had issues with other groups, you should have come to me and vercinaigh. This all could have been sorted, however, with zero communication between groups, how was the situation to resolve itself?

Edited by Gyrok, 12 January 2015 - 04:53 PM.

[Joe Psycho]

Gyrok, on 12 January 2015 - 04:37 PM, said:

Could not be farther from the truth...

I was one of the ones discussing things with you guys...then next thing I know...everything is supposed to be kosher, and then you are at GB and hitting us, after we had discussed you coming to join us. Which was the exact opposite of my expectation, so please do clarify how we do not understand backstabbing at the most obvious point?

We clearly understand mercs, most of you have shown you cannot be trusted. In order for me to accept an approach by mercs at this point, it would require a long conversation with total clarification of what is expected of both sides. I am not opposed to such things, however, I wonder if it is even worth my time to bother? Everyone has their own agenda, I just wonder how long it will be until some loose cannon tries to put a dagger in our backs...?

I have zero qualms with merc units coming to help...and welcome them to coordinate with us. However, that should be a coordinated effort, otherwise it is wasted effort.

EDIT: Furthermore, there was never a council of khans meeting adjourned to discuss said offer, as this was even before that body had formed.

As for you guys coming to Wolf. Let me make something clear. If I give you my word, I honor it. If you had issues with other groups, you should have come to me and vercinaigh. This all could have been sorted, however, with zero communication between groups, how was the situation to resolve itself?

Well not that i trust 2 of my high councils words much more than yours. But I made several personal attempts to to contact CW leadership on your TS, and got more than my fair share of two word "compliments". I just prefer to talk person to person I personally feel that too much can be misconstrued in forum post.

[Fox Kell]

Dracol, on 10 January 2015 - 06:10 AM, said:

[size=4]Proper diplomacy. Had Clan Wolf's diplomatic core during their initial negotiations with CI during the first 2 weeks of CW had gone better, then things would have been different. Unfortunately for the Wolves, their demands and attitude turned us away (and I would guess a few other merc units as well) and those that do go Wolf have had poor experiences. There was a post on these forums by a Merc unit employed by Wolf that was none to flattering, but I didn't find it just yet. Anyone remember that one?

Before all CW went to ****, Clan Wolf had probably the biggest player base of the clans. We didnt need or want mercs and we did very well. In the beginning we pushed back cowardly attacks by MS and CI combined all while pushing through FRR.

Now it seems all comp mercs teams want to make a statement vs Clan Wolf. Thats fine, its actually well done on your guys part. Hopefully the 20th patch brings some balance and we can resume a fun and fair CW.

Edited by Fox Kell, 13 January 2015 - 12:23 PM.

[Gyrok]

Joe Psycho, on 13 January 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

Well not that i trust 2 of my high councils words much more than yours. But I made several personal attempts to to contact CW leadership on your TS, and got more than my fair share of two word "compliments". I just prefer to talk person to person I personally feel that too much can be misconstrued in forum post.

Joe, they only mentioned you had been by the TS to me. I spoke with you on your TS the evening we were discussing options about diplomacy. I will visit you on ComStar to discuss this. I would have met with you last night, but I was not online until 11 pm CST. Soaq approached me earlier in the day via PM to reach out to you guys, I was just tied up longer than expected yesterday.

[Kain Demos]

Dawnstealer, on 12 January 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

I don't think the Clans should be able to have mercs AT ALL. I mean, come on...the Clans? Taking mercs? No. No, no, no.

Agreed.

They should have had two merc-like factions--Mercs for the IS and Clan Loyalists for the Clans that represent clan forces not aligned with Wolf, Ghost Bear, Jade Falcon, or Smoke Jaguar.

Those two sub-factions could then swap back and forth between the houses (mercs) and the clans (loyalists) on a short term basis.

[Codeine Radick]

General Pete, on 06 January 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

the awful truth is: many of us players have reasons we're bouncing from house to clan and not respecting truces and such.
1) We have lives- not trying to insult, just pointing out we have too little time to have truly in-depth recreation time. We need a game we can jump in, shoot something, and get out. Doing research on what units in a faction have decided (which takes a lot of forum reading) is not possible. For all I know, I violated a truce somewhere by dropping and have no idea I did it.
2) Some of us have little to no idea of the background lore of the game. I was working for House Davion recently- I personally would not attack a Steiner world, but hordes of people out there probably wouldn't have known to think twice about it.
3) People paid for their mechs. Either in cash, or in lots of time (and time is money). They deserve to use them all.
4) People are free. Taking choices away from them will not make them happy. It will not bring people to the game.

Some people love belonging to a house unit or a clan, enjoying the camaraderie and chance to employ coordinated teamspeak tactics in a match, working in a simulated military chain of command and even trying to jockey up a rank ladder. For them, I can see why it's frustrating trying to work with people who are lone wolves who were forced to 'hide behind a banner' by choosing a faction.

The solution to all this is: education and tolerance. Mostly tolerance, cause most pugs have not the time to learn the intricacies of inner sphere politics. We haven't all spent the last 25 years reading the books and playing the game.

1) Skirmish
2) Skirmish
3) Skirmish
4) You can decide for yourself if your a loyal clanner or successor state warrior, or if you just want to sit down and blow stuff up.... using the skirmish mode.


Everything you just said is accomplished by clicking ONE button as soon as you log in. It says "Play Now" and it is located in the top right section of your screen.

Enjoy. =)

[Alexander Steel]

It's also accomplished by the features in CW now.

I'm not sure why you think it's a good idea to remove features and stop people from playing and already feature thin game mode that's having trouble keeping people playing.

CW needs MORE people playing not another barrier to entry because some lore guys are like "The clans don't use mercs!"

[Devil Fox]

Colonel Codeine, on 13 January 2015 - 03:42 PM, said:

1) Skirmish
2) Skirmish
3) Skirmish
4) You can decide for yourself if your a loyal clanner or successor state warrior, or if you just want to sit down and blow stuff up.... using the skirmish mode.


Everything you just said is accomplished by clicking ONE button as soon as you log in. It says "Play Now" and it is located in the top right section of your screen.

Enjoy. =)

And if you're tired of CW there is always Conquest for yourself... afterall you're still capping bases

CW is part of the game, and whether you like it or not there will always be players who go it alone... even unit players solo it up in CW, nothing wrong with it. Pugs are also where the most fighting will occur and they will move around as much as mercs...

I for one still love the movement of unit's, border skirmishes... might not flip planets but games are had on both sides... it's CW, it's dynamic, and it's the player base that makes it so... if Clan's had no Mercs, you'll be dead in the water.

[Alexander Steel]

Keep in mind that PGI is a company that is in this to make money. CW is a big selling point and one that the player base has wanted and been teased with for 2-3 years now. There is no way that they are going to look at things and go..

"You know what, I know we make money by selling mechs to people, but let's make it so that once somebody starts to play CW they can only use 1/2 the mechs they bought. I'm sure that won't impact sales in the future or make people who have already bought mechs from both sides mad."

I mean PGI has been tone deaf to some complaints in the past but locking people into Clan or IS only for CW, is just such a bad business choice that I can't imagine them doing it to satisfy a few lore people.

[Mordin Ashe]

This is most interesting to read, I always wondered how CI came to be and why are they like they are.

Not that I want to take sides, but I have spent some time with several people from CI and from CW as well. Let me say that some Wolfies are masters at flipping people off. Should CI meet some of those (not even officers, just common players), that could deteriorate mutual relations quite fast.

[RustyBolts]

Alexander Steel, on 13 January 2015 - 10:59 PM, said:

Keep in mind that PGI is a company that is in this to make money. CW is a big selling point and one that the player base has wanted and been teased with for 2-3 years now. There is no way that they are going to look at things and go..

"You know what, I know we make money by selling mechs to people, but let's make it so that once somebody starts to play CW they can only use 1/2 the mechs they bought. I'm sure that won't impact sales in the future or make people who have already bought mechs from both sides mad."

I mean PGI has been tone deaf to some complaints in the past but locking people into Clan or IS only for CW, is just such a bad business choice that I can't imagine them doing it to satisfy a few lore people.

It works in other games so why not here. In STO if you spend money on a Klingon ship can you fly it while playing Federation? No you cant. In BSGO if you are a Colonial can you fly a Cylon ship?

[RustyBolts]

Mordin Ashe, on 14 January 2015 - 03:37 AM, said:

This is most interesting to read, I always wondered how CI came to be and why are they like they are.

Not that I want to take sides, but I have spent some time with several people from CI and from CW as well. Let me say that some Wolfies are masters at flipping people off. Should CI meet some of those (not even officers, just common players), that could deteriorate mutual relations quite fast.

And I have met some players sporting Ghost Bear tags that talk huge amounts of trash to other pilots also. So whats the point? There are always those who feel the need to insult and degrade to either boost their ego or because they cannot articulate any other way.

[Alexander Steel]

RustyBolts, on 14 January 2015 - 03:39 AM, said:

It works in other games so why not here. In STO if you spend money on a Klingon ship can you fly it while playing Federation? No you cant. In BSGO if you are a Colonial can you fly a Cylon ship?

But in STO if I buy both Klingon and Federation ships I can play both factions whenever I want to. Which is less restrictive than how CW is now. I actually have to sign on with a faction for 7,14,28 or Perm to use that side's ships. So yeah, that's a really bad example for you. I had both Klingon and Federation ships on my account when I played and could literally flip back and forth between and fight against the faction I was playing not 5 minutes before. This would look like not even having to take a 7 day contract in MWO but being able to click what faction you wanted to play at the start of every battle.

Not so sure about BSG, as I've never played that game. After some looking they don't have faction swapping, but they have 11 servers and you can be Cylon on One and Colonial on a different one. I could see your version of things being possible if there were multiple IS instances but that is not a thing right now.

That said, People have Bought Clan and IS mechs knowing that they could flip ever week to the other side to play them. Changing that now would be an incredibly bad move.

Edited by Alexander Steel, 14 January 2015 - 04:10 AM.

[CyclonerM]

Alexander Steel, on 13 January 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

CW needs MORE people playing not another barrier to entry because some lore guys are like "The clans don't use mercs!"

It is not the lore guys saying it, it is all the Battletech writers , and this is a Battletech game.

If i was playing a serious Game of Thrones game where your character could be part of any noble House, i would be annoyed if a Lannister could avoid paying his debts without any kind of risk, at least of losing reputation, or if the Stark NPCs did not mostly worship the Old Gods, or if the Night's Watch was still full of knights and truly noble men instead of being made of rapers, thiefs and other kinds of scum..

Sure, without mercs the Clans would have some difficulties, but if so, that is also because there are poor rewards for being loyalists/regulars. In my head, being loyalist should be the easiest career, which gives more long-term rewards but also lets you not worry about managing your resources. A merc, to be clear, should worry about having enough money to replace their lost 'Mech and rearming it, finding a new employer as soon as a contract ends and maintain a good reputation and a good standing with the MRBC. This should be the trade-off to the more freedom and the cool factor of merc life. But this is another topic ..

[Mordin Ashe]

RustyBolts, on 14 January 2015 - 03:43 AM, said:

And I have met some players sporting Ghost Bear tags that talk huge amounts of trash to other pilots also. So whats the point? There are always those who feel the need to insult and degrade to either boost their ego or because they cannot articulate any other way.

The point that you missed, even if I tried to make it rather clear, is that if CI players met some toxic players, it could have discouraged them greatly. When looking for friends/alies/however CI wanted to call it, experiencing this can serve as a great "RUN AWAY AND NEVER LOOK BACK" warning sign.

Not that I disagree with what you wrote, every faction has its share of poor attitudes, but that is not what is being discussed here. No need to be so defensive.

[Alexander Steel]

Quote

It is not the lore guys saying it, it is all the Battletech writers , and this is a Battletech game.

Nope, it's the lore guys. The Battletech writers couldn't care less about how this game acts. Of course that ignores the entire point that the game already doesn't follow the Lore.