159 replies to this topic

[TheSilken]

This isn't the Home Makeover Edition fireplace where I can just command it to move. It's lots of brick and stone not an omniplace. Watch I'll show you, "Fireplace move your ass!".........."Well then, nevermind"

[xWiredx]

Kuritaclan, on 11 January 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

things and stuff, it was long so i snipped it

Performance and build quality of Seasonic units is better than Super Flower units most of the time. This whole "single rail fail" thing is a bunch of jargon that has no place in the discussion. Why? Because the -only- reason to actually split the 12v rail is safety. There are no real performance benefits from this at all. Is OP planning on torture-testing this PSU? Probably not, especially considering it will more than aptly handle the load he's going to put on it.

[TheSilken]

The Sapphire Radeon Video card is out of stock. Should I wait for it to come back in stock? Or should I use the SAPPHIRE DUAL-X 100373L Radeon R9 280 3GB 384-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 CrossFireX Support Video Card instead? It looks like it's the same card except it just doesn't have the -2L at the end.

Edit: After looking at it again I noticed that it lacks Mantle Support whereas the other one had it.

Edited by TheSilkenPimp, 11 January 2015 - 08:39 PM.

[Kuritaclan]

xWiredx, on 11 January 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

Performance and build quality of Seasonic units is better than Super Flower units most of the time. This whole "single rail fail" thing is a bunch of jargon that has no place in the discussion. Why? Because the -only- reason to actually split the 12v rail is safety. There are no real performance benefits from this at all. Is OP planning on torture-testing this PSU? Probably not, especially considering it will more than aptly handle the load he's going to put on it.

This is: "Performance and build quality of Seasonic units is better than Super Flower units most of the time." ture. And i supposed the only Super Flower what is worth a buy and is good for the config. If you can get it for a nearly same price than it is the better one than a 12II. Safety is never tradeable for performance.

TheSilkenPimp, on 11 January 2015 - 06:32 PM, said:

The Sapphire Radeon Video card is out of stock. Should I wait for it to come back in stock? Or should I use the SAPPHIRE DUAL-X 100373L Radeon R9 280 3GB 384-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 CrossFireX Support Video Card instead? It looks like it's the same card except it just doesn't have the -2L at the end.

Edit: After looking at it again I noticed that it lacks Mantle Support whereas the other one had it.

All AMD 28X cards have Mantle support. Another good 280 is the HIS with DHE - HIS Radeon R9 280 IceQ and if you are interessted the MSI R9 280 Gaming 3G is one of the silent ones. Maybee you find one with nearly the same price. So yeah there is a choice if you cant get the Sapphire right away.

[xWiredx]

Considering the safety concern for any properly-built PSU is extremely low to begin with, it is a reasonable trade. I mean, you go outside even though there's the possibility of being struck by lightning at any time. You simply recognize that unless there is a lot of lightning in your area, the concern isn't worth thinking about, right? Pretty much the same principle here. I've been running "single rail fail" Seasonic PSUs for over a decade in my machines as well as all of the family+friend machines I've built (probably about 50-60 machines) and not a single issue yet. Why? Because they're pretty much the gold standard of PSUs. You can look at any JonnyGuru review and figure it out for yourself, I'm sure.

[TheSilken]

So don't wait on the GPU? Just get another one?

[xWiredx]

Well, not 'just get another one' probably. I haven't bought an ATI/AMD card in a good few years now, but last I remember there were a couple of manufacturers you want to avoid because of their build quality, warranty terms, and service policies. In other words, you may want to do some research on which brands are currently the most reputable and get one based on that. I'm sure a person more familiar with AMD GPU manufacturers could tell you better.

[TheSilken]

Ok now another question (I decided on the other Sapphire). I should use the Samsung SSD Storage for the OS and the Hitachi for the rest of the stuff right?

[xWiredx]

TheSilkenPimp, on 12 January 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:

Ok now another question (I decided on the other Sapphire). I should use the Samsung SSD Storage for the OS and the Hitachi for the rest of the stuff right?

Pretty much. You can probably fit a game or two on there in addition to the OS without any worries. I forgot the size and I don't want to retype my response. If it's over 64GB, though, then you'll be fine with the OS and MWO on it for sure.

[TheSilken]

Excellent. Well I guess I'll see you guys here again once I got everything put together and running..

Edited by TheSilkenPimp, 12 January 2015 - 08:58 AM.

[Kuritaclan]

xWiredx, on 12 January 2015 - 06:24 AM, said:

Considering the safety concern for any properly-built PSU is extremely low to begin with, it is a reasonable trade.

Considering the psu, is the only componet who can kill all perimeter components you are wrong. Your story is nice, but it doesn't nail down anything.Well it is his rig for a grand.

http://www.overclock...-rail-explained

And when you come with Jonny:
http://www.jonnyguru...read.php?t=3990
i will quote him directly:

Quote

There's less components and less engineering to make a PSU that DOES NOT have the +12V rail split up, so it's cheaper to manufacturer (about $1.50 less on the BOM, $2 to $3 at retail) and typically this cost savings is NOT handed down to the consumer, so it actually behooves marketing to convince you that you only need single +12V rails.

Read it, it is cheaper to produce, but the savings arn''t handed down to the comsumer. So you get what you get for 30,50,70,90 dollar as a singlerail. Or so to speak when you by two psus with the same price (single to multirail), one is better and it isn't the singlerail, since the gap is just gain for the manufacturer it isn't something the consumer get. The multirail is then more expensiv since you get more savety circuits.

and we are back to the comparison on post # 119:

Quote

SeaSonic M12II Series: Over Voltage Protection (OVP), Short Circuit Protection (SCP), and Over Power Protection (OPP)
SeaSonic G Series: Over Power Protection (OPP)/ Over Voltage Protection (OVP), Short Circuit Protection (SCP)/ Under Voltage Protection (UVP), Over Current Protection (OCP)/ Over Temperature Protection (OTP)

Edited by Kuritaclan, 12 January 2015 - 11:09 AM.

[Chiron]

Hey silky pimpers, grats on taking the plunge! I just reviewed your final build, and had a few thoughts.

Win 7 or 8.1, it will game just fine.
your psu leaves you with enough headroom to OC, and I'm glad you picked that cpu cooler! My only concern is with the ASRock mobo, it is a good basic board, but they cut cost on the # of VRMs on it. Fortunately, it has failure prevention built in, so it will be harder to fry anything.
TLDR? Just use the optimized OC function in the BIOS, and let the board handle OCing for you...it will be somewhat modest, but much more safe.

Oh and you mentioned case fans? Watch this first, before the fansboys hijack this thread again:Static Pressure vs Air Flow Fans - How to choose …: http://youtu.be/gXAFYNE7Cl0

Have fun!

[Catamount]

I'm pretty much going to agree with Wired here. Sure, on paper, a PSU can kill your components. Is any remotely decent one going to? Very probably not.

Yes, there is technically a probability of it, but that's not justification to pay money, PSU after PSU to prevent something that's already astronomically unlikely: that a quality PSU will fail, will fail in a particular way that will take out a component, and fail in a particular way such that a multi-rail PSU would have saved that same piece of equipment. I've never encountered such a failure before. No one on these forums has ever reported such a failure before. The odds say I won't live long enough to encounter such a failure. Even if I owned enough computers that the Law of Large Numbers actually did finally come back to bite me (say, I'm some big corporation with a million computers), paying extra for multi-rail PSUs on all such computers would constitute such a large additional cost, that it probably would vastly exceed the cost of just replacing the bricked component(s).

I'm curious, Kurita, do you own a lightning protection system? I'm not talking about some shoddy UPS, I mean a full blown proper $2000+ house-protecting system. By your logic, that any risk justifies cost to mitigate no matter how small, you should, because a lightning strike can do a lot more damage than one failed power supply, and any cost is justified for any risk apparently. I guess we'd all better beef up our insurance coverage against meteorites while we're at it.


Sure, all other things being equal, if a multirail and single rail PSU are the same price and provide identical performance, I'll go for the multirail unit. But that wasn't the case when I bought my unit. I got a very good deal on it, and identically performing multirail units of the same price were not and are not available at what I paid for it. Of course, it falls below you're hilariously excessive standard for everyday PSU purchases anyways (Rosewill Hive 650, solid little HighPower unit; Hardware Secrets rather liked it) It still matches or beats that BeQuiet! unit you recommended for ripple despite being just a "cheap 80+ Bronze" unit, so perhaps it doesn't fall so short. Not only were no multirail semi-modular units with its performance available for anything even close to the ~$50 I paid for it, they still aren't today. And oh hey, it's doing it's job while the beefed up components the saved money netted me are doing theirs. Granted, today 80+ gold units are cheaper than they were back then, so my choice might differ from what it did almost 3 years ago, but that's neither here nor there. Weren't you the one who said on SSDs that it wasn't worth spending money for something that might not make a tangible difference? A 20% SSD performance gain makes a lot more difference than imagined PSU safety issues that will never arise.

Multirail PSUs are very much a solution looking for a problem. Some day, maybe you'll find a particular case where one happens to be the best deal available at the time. When that happens, I'll completely agree with recommending it, but it won't be because of imaginary, statistically insignificant safety advantages.

Edited by Catamount, 12 January 2015 - 12:29 PM.

[TheSilken]

............I already bought the extra fans

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Kuritaclan, on 12 January 2015 - 10:40 AM, said:

Considering the psu, is the only componet who can kill all perimeter components you are wrong. Your story is nice, but it doesn't nail down anything.Well it is his rig for a grand.

http://www.overclock...-rail-explained

And when you come with Jonny:
http://www.jonnyguru...read.php?t=3990
i will quote him directly:

Read it, it is cheaper to produce, but the savings arn''t handed down to the comsumer. So you get what you get for 30,50,70,90 dollar as a singlerail. Or so to speak when you by two psus with the same price (single to multirail), one is better and it isn't the singlerail, since the gap is just gain for the manufacturer it isn't something the consumer get. The multirail is then more expensiv since you get more savety circuits.

and we are back to the comparison on post # 119:

Are we still talking about irrelevant things about PSU's.

There are good brands of PSU's, there are bad brands, stick to the good brands (Seasonic, EVGA, Superflower and more) and weather it is multi rail or single rail is irrelevant, in 15 years i have only had 1 PSU malfunction that resulted in a small fire that melted the PSU cables down to the board, and that was an OCZ PSU ( BAD BRAND).

Your now just trading pointless technicalities the OP isn't going to understand or care about.

The seasonic PSU he linked in his post one page back is in the good bracket of PSU's ( personally i would go for the universally approved EVGA one but that's me) end of story.

Edited by DV McKenna, 12 January 2015 - 12:22 PM.

[Catamount]

Quote

Your now just trading pointless technicalities the OP isn't going to understand or care about.

Forget the OP. Nobody cares about it. Even Wired doesn't care about it, and he's the most persnickety person on PSUs who regularly posts here

Edited by Catamount, 12 January 2015 - 12:28 PM.

[xWiredx]

Catamount, on 12 January 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

Forget the OP. Nobody cares about it. Even Wired doesn't care about it, and he's the most persnickety person on PSUs who regularly posts here

I'm pretty particular about having clean energy running my system. Nothing wrong with that. Figured OP might appreciate it, too

[Catamount]

xWiredx, on 12 January 2015 - 12:36 PM, said:

I'm pretty particular about having clean energy running my system. Nothing wrong with that. Figured OP might appreciate it, too

Yes, but surely the OP would also appreciate the mitigating the risk that his PSU manufacturer accidentally built his entire unit out of highly radioactive material, so therefore we might also want to recommend a nice lead box to encase the machine in

[Kuritaclan]

I support what chiron said about the mainboard.

Catamount, on 12 January 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

I'm curious, Kurita, do you own a lightning protection system? I'm not talking about some shoddy UPS, I mean a full blown proper $2000+ house-protecting system. By your logic, that any risk justifies cost to mitigate no matter how small, you should, because a lightning strike can do a lot more damage than one failed power supply, and any cost is justified for any risk apparently. I guess we'd all better beef up our insurance coverage against meteorites while we're at it.

Well I live in germany in an apartment. Since we have council building regulations, i'm not concerned about lighning protection system, it is common in germany. I don't bother to argue against the rest of your statement, since yeah you have a point in it too. Maybee it is mentality driven.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 12 January 2015 - 12:48 PM.

[TheSilken]

Got all the parts. About to start crackin here so I'll see you guys later today/tonight hopefully