38 replies to this topic

[crustydog]

Yes, I really do.... let me explain:


So I fought about eight pug attacks against Clan premades yesterday. We lost all eight, and several of them very badly.

Out of nine drops, eight were IS pug attack.

Out of nine drops, eight were Clan premade defense.


When I drop with my unit, we often win that match.

No surprises so far...


What is surprising is where are all of the Clan puggers? Sure the Clan premades are dominating, but the Clan puggers appear to be much fewer and farther between.


And this is where the Clan doom comes into view... with few puggers to balance the outcomes, Clans are taking planets faster than IS. Sure I know it is supposed to happen...in Lore ... but is it a viable gaming concept? Players will be leaving - and PGI will be nerfing as a result.


Nerfy McNerfage - oh Clans, how your days are numbered.... nerf nerf nerf!!!

At this point, bringing the game into balance is going to need about 50% nerfage of the Clans, by one means or another.... based on the 2 to 1 mech kill outcomes of premade over puggers... or so it was yesterday.

And that would leave the IS premades highly dominant in the game, if not in taking planets.


It's not your fault I know - a higher percentage of the better players are in the Clans. Combined with better equipment, you are expected to dominate. It is 3050 after all. And premades from either side tend to dominate against puggers.


It is the imbalanced percentage of puggers on either side which supports this imbalanced planet taking outcome.


Look at the queues -


If the expense and difficulty of accessing Clan equipment means the newer IS players outnumber the newer Clan players - ( and it seems to me that they do in CW... ) then the vast majority of the new gamers will be having a bad day - and that does not play well for the future of PGI, MWO...and CW.


Death through Victory is what I see... unless another solution can be found.




Perhaps the Clans could get more puggers from someplace?

as crazy as that sounds, I know, ...

but puggers not winning something is the real danger for CW.

Even the elite can see that.

[Bulletsponge0]

It would be a terrible mistake for PGI to use CW (with no Elo balancing of teams) as a metric to decide what nerfs/buffs should be made in game

[crustydog]

Bulletsponge0, on 01 January 2015 - 08:34 AM, said:

It would be a terrible mistake for PGI to use CW (with no Elo balancing of teams) as a metric to decide what nerfs/buffs should be made in game

Yes I agree fully - I think the Clans need to take action of their own before that happens.

[Bulletsponge0]

crustydog, on 01 January 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

Yes I agree fully - I think the Clans need to take action of their own before that happens.

What action do you propose they take? They can't force others to form units and get on TS. They can't force others to get better. THere's no reason to nerf themselves (the mechs are fairly well balanced at the moment).

What is your proposal?

[Kuritaclan]

crustydog, on 01 January 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

Out of nine drops, eight were IS pug attack.

Out of nine drops, eight were Clan premade defense.


When I drop with my unit, we often win that match.

No surprises so far...


What is surprising is where are all of the Clan puggers? Sure the Clan premades are dominating, but the Clan puggers appear to be much fewer and farther between.


And this is where the Clan doom comes into view... with few puggers to balance the outcomes, Clans are taking planets faster than IS. Sure I know it is supposed to happen...in Lore ... but is it a viable gaming concept? Players will be leaving - and PGI will be nerfing as a result.

Since Clans are on the way to terra and therfore mostly attacking (hold the base isn't that often) you do not have that much income. Rushing bases and going for the objectivs don't produce c-bills. Going for kills but get defeat after defeat isn't that appealing. And since you don't be often mixed up with larger units the chance is pretty low that you can hang around in the base, kill the 48 enemy mechs before you end the game. In the end you don't gain that much for bring up your drop deck and this could be a factor when you see lesser pugs play cw on clan side.

Also clan trial Mechs are not that good, nova whk adr have serious heat problems e.g. Sulfur Map. Smn isnt that good, KFX is a running gack joke, if he just would bring the ecm hummm. So guess when you are into clan and have to spend 60mil for a mastered dire, not much clan pilots are there with full customized dropdecks under the PuG players (note: clan unit players may have bought the packs so they are save). A full drop deck out of 3 scr and a tbr would be mastered 79 mil C-Bill not counting other weapons, modules. It is a little grindy without paying real money for the mechs.

And for sure yesterday i was sitting half a hour in queue till we get starting an atk on ffr (before that 2 hours the queue was empty - well facation/celebration day). Not much to do. As long as queues arn't filled, no people come in.

I dont think it is a balance problem for now - it is just that the game mod isn't that satisfying for gamers who start or don't have foll drop decks and handicap themself+the group beside the lack of communication vs premade teams.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 01 January 2015 - 09:06 AM.

[redlance]

crustydog, on 01 January 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

Nerfy McNerfage - oh Clans, how your days are numbered.... nerf nerf nerf!!!

playing in the lords on the clan side has been fun, but its plain to see that clan mechs are NOT OP. in fact, when we go IS and roll everything with our amazing mechs and customization, its gonna be amazing.

[IsaAurinkoinen]

Clan should start fighting eachothers. Looks like only really clan Wolf wants to cheasefire with everybody. Make pack with bear and falcons and erase wolf from the map, and then continue your efforts to terra.

In couple of weeks, that erasing wolf puppies take, clans will get more pugs for your side.

[Kuritaclan]

IsaAurinkoinen, on 01 January 2015 - 09:09 AM, said:

Clan should start fighting eachothers. Looks like only really clan Wolf wants to cheasefire with everybody. Make pack with bear and falcons and erase wolf from the map, and then continue your efforts to terra.

In couple of weeks, that erasing wolf puppies take, clans will get more pugs for your side.

You as liao should fight a corridor to us and than we wil see who are the puppies.

[Mechteric]

Clan mechs are more expensive, so maybe new puggers aren't getting as many of them?

[crustydog]

Bulletsponge0, on 01 January 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

What action do you propose they take? They can't force others to form units and get on TS. They can't force others to get better. THere's no reason to nerf themselves (the mechs are fairly well balanced at the moment).

What is your proposal?

I'm not sure - frankly - I don't want to see the Clan tech nerfed - as when it is clan puggers without command, they are not so tough either.

The difference I see is in premades vrs puggers - but without the puggers, the Clan premades can't find enough battles.


So perhaps allow the puggers eight mechs per drop instead of four? With only premade 10, 11, or 12 player teams qualifying for premade status in these battles ( think of the cash:)


96 vrs 48 - seems to be about right for the kill ratio of puggers vrs premade.

That, of course, could be changed to find the right amount.


And double the CW rewards for destroying a clan mech, or another bonus of some kind.


It would force the premades to play the long game - a real test of skill when skilled opponents can not be found.

Better than a nerf I think.

[crustydog]

redlance, on 01 January 2015 - 09:07 AM, said:

playing in the lords on the clan side has been fun, but its plain to see that clan mechs are NOT OP. in fact, when we go IS and roll everything with our amazing mechs and customization, its gonna be amazing.

I've no doubt of that - when I roll with my IS unit, we dominate very well in our super quirk mechs:)

It's not the tech - it's the premade skill superiority that begs for the nerf -

The thing is, if you are expected to win, there is nothing so special about it when you do.

The question is how to balance a game between elites and regulars... so the elites can remain elites, and the regulars stay on the battlefield?

[crustydog]

Kuritaclan, on 01 January 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

Also clan trial Mechs are not that good, nova whk adr have serious heat problems e.g. Sulfur Map. Smn isnt that good, KFX is a running gack joke, if he just would bring the ecm hummm. So guess when you are into clan and have to spend 60mil for a mastered dire, not much clan pilots are there with full customized dropdecks under the PuG players (note: clan unit players may have bought the packs so they are save). A full drop deck out of 3 scr and a tbr would be mastered 79 mil C-Bill not counting other weapons, modules. It is a little grindy without paying real money for the mechs.

I also think the new Clan mech - purchase, and grind price is a little out of reach for the average new player - My buddy with his new trio of Timberwolves is having a very slow time of unlocking them.

And I really think the Trial mechs need a major overhaul for the purposes of filling out the drop decks - Puggers of every kind are driving lots of trial mechs right now - including myself - to make the drop deck work with my limited inventory.

Edited by crustydog, 01 January 2015 - 09:35 AM.

[Senor Cataclysmo]

There are plenty of clan Puggers. I am a clan pugger, and I have not struggled to find CW games with other clan puggers yet.

[IsaAurinkoinen]

Kuritaclan, on 01 January 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

You as liao should fight a corridor to us and than we wil see who are the puppies.

Sorry but I am merc, not a Liao, so its hard to say in which front my units next contract will be. Wolf units have not yet managed to convince me in the same way as the Bears have.

Now the biggest IS faction is far away from Clan front, and that is a major problem. And many problems what we have on CW now are result of playerbase is not evently distriputed on different factions. Giving bonuses for smaller factions is good start, but how we can get some Wolfs, Stainers, Bears and Davions to move on smaller factions which would be best for everybody.

Edited by IsaAurinkoinen, 01 January 2015 - 09:46 AM.

[Manny Rhyde]

one of the reasons why there are so few clan puggers is less choices, some pugs do not want to join with the main 4 clans, but still want to use clan mechs. Clans in both lore and in RL are also dispised in this community, there are past actions such as mechwarrior 4 that really made people dislike us. One of these examples is clan smoke jaguar who in lore nuked turtle bay and in RL it hurts recruitment chances.

Another could be stringant recruitment practices that said puggers do not want to undertake to be part of a clan, but there are some units that wave off that kind of process but arent well known or well liked >.> *stares at noesis*

[crustydog]

Senor Cataclysmo, on 01 January 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

There are plenty of clan Puggers. I am a clan pugger, and I have not struggled to find CW games with other clan puggers yet.

But are you going up against IS premades all day? every day?

Much more often that not, when I drop IS pug in CW, we end up against a Clan premade, and not a Clan pug team... so I am assuming the IS pugger is far more numerous than the Clan pugger. I do know there are plenty of Clan puggers.... just not enough at the moment, in my opinion.

Furthermore, if that is true across the game platform, then the results of this imbalance is being reflected in the planets taken in CW.

I don't know about the Clan pugs - but the IS pugs are having a very bad experience at the moment.

Bad - as in - Bad for the game's future.

And we don't want that....

[Kuritaclan]

IsaAurinkoinen, on 01 January 2015 - 09:40 AM, said:

Sorry but I am merc, not a Liao, so its hard to say in which front my units next contract will be. Wolf units have not yet managed to convince me in the same way as the Bears have.

Yeah i see this too. Maybee i dont get grouped up with better/best wolf premades. Since i played with cwi, cwdg, swol, cyt, cwg, csw & cwua they arn't that good - they do well, but i thougth they would outperform me, and i think i'm not a high skilled player, more an above average (at least that is my best guess, when i have to compare my skill). Well maybee in 12 man premade they perform better. But we will see.

IsaAurinkoinen, on 01 January 2015 - 09:40 AM, said:

Now the biggest IS faction is far away from Clan front, and that is a major problem. And many problems what we have on CW now are result of playerbase is not evently distriputed on different factions. Giving bonuses for smaller factions is good start, but how we can get some Wolfs, Stainers, Bears and Davions to move on smaller factions which would be best for CW.

This is right - davion is fighting is instead of clans. Moving aroud will come when they have the full 20 ranks. I guess its a longer way but not that long. I thought it would be much longer.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 01 January 2015 - 10:00 AM.

[Gierling]

Bulletsponge0, on 01 January 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

What action do you propose they take? They can't force others to form units and get on TS. They can't force others to get better. THere's no reason to nerf themselves (the mechs are fairly well balanced at the moment).

What is your proposal?

I think that a good start would be to diversify game types that contribute to Community warfare. Including different dropdeck weights and player limits.

Using existing maps with Conquest, skrimish, and assault game modes, with different drop weights and group sizes.

For example, 4v4 conquest on River City with a max 180 drop weight would lead to drastically different gameplay (And results for the IS side) then a current match on boreal.

Variety is the spice of life, using game modes with different drop weights, objectives and group sizes would allow smaller groups the chance to compete/carve out a niche.

[Kuritaclan]

crustydog, on 01 January 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

But are you going up against IS premades all day? every day?

Since i'm in a unit, but this don't make event for cw (or just cant find the group up button) - i play pug. And when it comes down, my numbers say i face in 1/4 of all games a enemy unit biger than 6 players of the same unit. So to speak, the matchmaker finds more often "pug vs pug" for me. Maybee you don't see that much puger is because you will often drop with 10+ premades and those are prioriced by system to matched against other big premades.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 01 January 2015 - 09:55 AM.

[JadeTimberwolf]

I don't know about the other clan invasion corridors but here in CJF we have a fairly large number of PuGs (Myself included) and we seem to be doing pretty well for ourselves, even outgunning some IS Premades with teamwork via in game chat. Maybe we're getting lucky or maybe those premades aren't taking our PuGs seriously.