1123 replies to this topic

[Ghogiel]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

so are you saying that the old 4 PPC Stalker Meta, the old Poptart 3D/Dragonslayer Meta or the new TBolt overlord Meta are actually fun? And good for the health of the game, Kriv?

My favs have been the 300xl 9sml swayback, splatcat, old poptart pre HGN CTF meta. TDR wub meta is pretty fun too because wub brawling is boss.

[Krivvan]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

I know some of the upper tier comp guys actually hated having such a clear cut Meta. Metas always exist, and the competitive guys will always drift to them, and the wannabes, and have fun with them.

That's the frustrating thing about how PGI has balanced so far though. The meta would be so much better now if it featured poptarting, laservomit, ERLL boats, SRM boats, gauss mechs, PPC boats, etc. As it is though, meta tends to get nerfed way too hard out of existence which just opens the way to a new relatively more bland meta. The Poptart meta was the best mechanics wise and the most exciting out of all the metas so far, but even it gets boring when it's the only thing that exists. But at the same time SRMs were fixed and Clans were introduced, poptarting was nerfed way too far.

[Monkey Lover]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

try skill?

Problem is when you hit CW being skilled doesnt cut it. Everyon is "skilled" If you take a locust into battle I dont care how much skill you have its going to die once you pop your head up. Its about what mechs your team has and how you use them as a team. For now tbolts are providing long range cover. On a side note I see why you guys havnt won a planet in weeks haha

[Impossible Wasabi]

Ghogiel, on 02 January 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

My favs have been the 300xl 9sml swayback, splatcat, old poptart pre HGN CTF meta. TDR wub meta is pretty fun too because wub brawling is boss.

Streakcats were also fun.

Peace be upon you,
The Space Pope

Edited by Merlevade, 02 January 2015 - 07:35 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

lol complaining about ERPPCs. Hahahahaahahahahaaha. They go through their target more than half the problem without doing any damage. There is no problem here. Pick something else to rant about.

[Bishop Steiner]

Krivvan, on 02 January 2015 - 07:29 AM, said:

And trust me, I do get it to an extent. There are some games that I decide to play tryhard in and other games where I choose not to, so I've experienced both perspectives. If the "metawhores" had a choice, most would choose to play exclusively against other "metawhores."

I wish this were the case.

But when it was 12 v 12 only, how long did it take for the majority of self professed Competitive teams to go back to PUGfarming? You had what, LORDs, SJR, maybe ACEs and a few others who actually played, and so it got so hard for the "real" MEtawhores (can I just call ya "TRVE KOMP, for simplicity, lol?) to find matches against each other, that they jsut ended up back in public queues again, too.

The number of REAL Comp teams and players, is very small in MWO (especially since let's face it, it's really a "comp" game, atm) and it's usually the second tier, metawhoing Comp wannabes, that are the problem for the general population, in these broken meta scenarios.

[Nightmare1]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

Dude, going from broken bad, to op broken good? It's not remotely good for the balance of the game, in any way shape or form. Ridiculously obvious and broken metas are bad, period.

I haven't had the opportunity to run many CW matches because I went on vacation shortly after it premiered. From the few I did get to run, I really didn't see TDRs as breaking the game. Sure, there were a couple each match, but they weren't game changers from what I was seeing.

They're also still non-existent in the solo queues.

[Krivvan]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

When the same groups ran the meta in public queues, then tell their comp L2P and such? It's just being dbags, sorry, lol.

I don't do that, so I can't comment on the mindest of those who tell people to "L2P", but at the same time, everyone gets frustrated when they see players on their team running a flamer LRM boat or something and being ineffective. It's the same frustration as that, except taken to a far higher level. And sometimes it's not people who just don't care, but rather those that don't know what they're doing wrong.

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

Good games have metas, but they are much less pronounced, and often only truly noticeable for the most competitive players, which is how it should be.

100% agree.

[Aiden Skye]

Why do all these discussions come down to IS vs clan and that silly boreal map? What about IS vs IS. Thunderbolts are way over quirked if you're going up against them with IS chassis.

[InspectorG]

HOLY TRINITY no like competition...

[Wolfwood592]

I am honestly not gonna read all the posts but I lol'd at this.


ERPPC Thunderbolts are about as fun as playing CW against 1xTimby/3xStormcrow CW drops.

This sounds like a clanner who wants an IS mech that can stop em nerfed

[Krivvan]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 07:35 AM, said:

But when it was 12 v 12 only, how long did it take for the majority of self professed Competitive teams to go back to PUGfarming? You had what, LORDs, SJR, maybe ACEs and a few others who actually played, and so it got so hard for the "real" MEtawhores (can I just call ya "TRVE KOMP, for simplicity, lol?) to find matches against each other, that they jsut ended up back in public queues again, too.

I can only speak for me and to an extent those I play with. There is, however, a desire for more teams to get to the level of Lords, SJR, 228, and etc. I don't like it when teams run 12-player meta while simaltaneously don't go looking for a challenge. It breeds bad habits and gets boring. It's one reason why many of us got bored with CW, because it felt like PvE. I personally try my best not to be in a large group in CW (unless it's an accidental syncdrop, which happens often) because of how mindless and unfair it is.

What I mainly want is a league system for MWO so you can have the "true" comp players up in gold tier, the "wannabe" players in silver tier, and those who don't care in bronze tier. And then separate them as much as possible so they don't end up in each others' games often. But as far as I understand it's not possible to implement that at the moment.

Edited by Krivvan, 02 January 2015 - 07:45 AM.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

In my honest opinion, the Thunderbolt chassis is just horrible in general. Huge ST hitbox, and worst of all, NO hardpoints in the head or CT. It's a 65 ton meat shield once it loses both ST when running a STD engine.
Meh, I finally found a liking both to the ER PPC and to my TDR after this quirk update. Although I haven't used it as much. I'm still sticking with my Spidees though

[Fate 6]

W A R K H A N, on 02 January 2015 - 06:28 AM, said:

I frequently use erppcs on my mechs. There is a real problem giving 1 mech a trifecta of heavy erppc buffs. It's way over done. Forget about IS vs clan what about IS vs IS in that regard? Nothing else comes close to such rediculous buffs. Having 3 er ppcs generate less heat than 2 erppcs on all other chassis, Fire and cool down faster is just too much.

^
The way IS competes with Clans in range right now should be with ballistics because IS has pinpoint ballistics. Or just ERLL trading effectively. The 9S is just too much especially in IS vs IS.

[Bishop Steiner]

Krivvan, on 02 January 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

That's the frustrating thing about how PGI has balanced so far though. The meta would be so much better now if it featured poptarting, laservomit, ERLL boats, SRM boats, gauss mechs, PPC boats, etc. As it is though, meta tends to get nerfed way too hard out of existence which just opens the way to a new relatively more bland meta. The Poptart meta was the best mechanics wise and the most exciting out of all the metas so far, but even it gets boring when it's the only thing that exists. But at the same time SRMs were fixed and Clans were introduced, poptarting was nerfed way too far.

dunno if it was too exciting, but that's obviously a subjective call. I do find poptarting semi-viable again, it's just not possible to spend the whole match being a pogostick, but I pop-shot using my Summoners and Vindis quite a bit..... just that it's usually done while moving into position for other tactics and maneuvers.

It's actually a good thing the Vindicator doesn't have a high mount that can pack a ppc, as it would probably become the new poptart metamech if it could.

[RG Notch]

Techorse, on 02 January 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:

This only proves my point. Who the hell cares what you build if you're trying to have fun playing a game? That's the point of games, is it not, entertainment? Basically what you've said is that people who "want to have fun" need a separate playpen from the "big boys" playing the game "correctly."

With all due respect, no. The primary function of games is to enjoy them, and if you only get enjoyment by playing meta and winning, something's up.

So why should people just playing to have fun care if they are getting their ass handed to them by people who are optimizing? If they do then you need a separate place. Most games do a better job of separating the players because it's needed. There is little common ground between those who don't want to learn anything and just push buttons and see explosions and those who think this is a real war and need to drill and use the ultimate meta. I fall in the middle but it's sad to see either extreme say they are in the right or in the majority. Most people want to make effective builds and have fun. I don't care if I play with the meta folks, if there is a match maker that attempts to balance at least. If I'm meeting them it should mean I'm playing well. I don't want to club seals playing with people "out to have fun" with stupid builds or trying to play TT in an online PvP FPS. At least I don't want them on my team. People who don't want to get better or make good builds are just as much a drag to play with for me as the uber competitive folks.
I don't think Elo is a good measure, but judging from people's shock and poor experience in CW where it doesn't exist, I'm starting to believe it does something.

[El Bandito]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

try skill?

JudgeDeathCZ, on 02 January 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

if TBR/SCR/DWF is skill then TDR with 3 ERPPCs is skill too...

I say nerf all of them at once. The 9S, the Timbergod, and the Doomcrow. Direwhale has its own shortcomings, thus needing no nerf, but TW and SCR are over the top--like the 9S. I say this as the guy who had painstakingly grinded all the C-Bill versions of the Crow and the TW.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 January 2015 - 07:46 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 07:35 AM, said:

metawhoing Comp wannabes, that are the problem for the general population, in these broken meta scenarios.

According to the forums and the multitude of QQ threads about specific comp teams stomping, it appears to be actual metawhoring comp players that are the problem not wannabes.

[Bishop Steiner]

Monkey Lover, on 02 January 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

Problem is when you hit CW being skilled doesnt cut it. Everyon is "skilled" If you take a locust into battle I dont care how much skill you have its going to die once you pop your head up. Its about what mechs your team has and how you use them as a team. For now tbolts are providing long range cover. On a side note I see why you guys havnt won a planet in weeks haha

have it on pretty good authority any Marik victories have nothing to do with your contributions, so, your point is?

Nightmare1, on 02 January 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

I haven't had the opportunity to run many CW matches because I went on vacation shortly after it premiered. From the few I did get to run, I really didn't see TDRs as breaking the game. Sure, there were a couple each match, but they weren't game changers from what I was seeing.

They're also still non-existent in the solo queues.

drop more, especially against the more competitive IS teams, like 228. More spam than at a hawaiian buffet.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 07:45 AM, said:

have it on pretty good authority any Marik victories have nothing to do with your contributions, so, your point is?


drop more, especially against the more competitive IS teams, like 228. More spam than at a hawaiian buffet.

228? The B33F's unit? Yeah, his force ran a gaggle of Dual Gauss Crabs....derp...