1123 replies to this topic

[Sarlic]

Widowmaker1981, on 08 January 2015 - 03:43 AM, said:

Go play stock mech mondays if you dont like customization, for most people its half the fun of the game.. and meaningful customization = boating WILL happen, because playing with no more than 2 weapon groups is optimal due to left click/right click.

You fail to see the point. Like many others. I am not pointing on full customizing, but on hardlocked points were you cant boat 3 PPCs but one PPC but the other slot has to be filled with another quirk. Customizing is stil part of the game.

Like Bishop somewhat said earlier. It would be a great solution.

Edited by Sarlic, 08 January 2015 - 03:47 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Karl Streiger, on 08 January 2015 - 03:42 AM, said:

no not about taking it away - but i think its kind of strange that some Mechs got a doubled 25% bonus.
Wolverine K - for its PulseLaser
Dragon 1N for the AC 5
Thunderbolt 5 and 9 for Medium Pulse Laser and ERPPC
Pretty Baby for Large Laser

and what is strange is not the Mechs its strange that the Quirks in the first "glance" should have a maximum of 25% on a specific weapon - and after some worries it was changed to 12.5% specific and 12.5% more general.
But don't you think that we have here a kind of incredible bad quality management - every guy that is sane - should see that a 50% bonus is not a quirk its a mistake

Its only the TDRs that are strange there..

The Wolverine and Dragon rely entirely on one arm, so super giant glaring exploitable flaw, the pretty baby only has 2 ports for LLs. The TDRs have... big torsos? other than that they are good mechs, they just suffer from being big so they cant run XLs, you cant run ballistics due to that (65t mech NEEDs XL to run ballistics) and you cant run missiles due to only 1 hardpoint. So they were STD engine energy boats - which SUCKED before quirks.. not so much now though, and no easily exploitable weakness. its fine though, they arent OP imo, just the best IS heavy (not hard, Orions LOL)

[Navid A1]

Vassago Rain, on 08 January 2015 - 03:39 AM, said:

Why not? They're very interesting weapons, being that they're a combination of ballistics (high impact, long range) and energy (very high heat).

Each weapon system has a balancing trade off to it. Heat is the trade off for a PPC user. When you take away the heat on a PPC... you'll basically end up with a half weight AC10 with unlimited ammo and extended range.

I'd say give the thunderbolt 20% damage reduction to armor + increased internals + 30-35% total heat reduction on ERPPC (20% on energy). The awesome 9M could then get the 40-50% heat reduction on ERPPC and excel in its main role.

[Widowmaker1981]

Vassago Rain, on 08 January 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:

Clearly, what we need is more of Paul's design decisions. You guys don't know it, because you're so used it, and whining on here whenever something changes, but that's what you want.

You don't want multiple viable robots. It's scary and complicated.

Of course the awesome needs some very high bonuses. It's one of the WORST MECHS IN THE GAME. It's the same with the blunderbolt.

This is the last time i ever reply to you, you don't read the post and just spout gibberish. Goodbye trolly mctroltster.

[Karl Streiger]

Widowmaker1981, on 08 January 2015 - 03:47 AM, said:

Its only the TDRs that are strange there..

The Wolverine and Dragon rely entirely on one arm, so super giant glaring exploitable flaw, the pretty baby only has 2 ports for LLs. The TDRs have... big torsos? other than that they are good mechs, they just suffer from being big so they cant run XLs, you cant run ballistics due to that (65t mech NEEDs XL to run ballistics) and you cant run missiles due to only 1 hardpoint. So they were STD engine energy boats - which SUCKED before quirks.. not so much now though, and no easily exploitable weakness. its fine though, they arent OP imo, just the best IS heavy (not hard, Orions LOL)

nah - the Thunderbolt was a tank - and its one of the few "Line of Battle Mechs" - the TDR-9S was before a very potent ER-PPC build with some light weapons in the arms - and doubled AMS

and the argumentation with the "arm" - well the YLW or the CN9-AH also have there weapons in the arms - same for other wolverines or the few slots of energy weapons for other Awesomes -

[Vassago Rain]

Navid A1, on 08 January 2015 - 03:47 AM, said:

Each weapon system has a balancing trade off to it. Heat is the trade off for a PPC user. When you take away the heat on a PPC... you'll basically end up with a half weight AC10 with unlimited ammo and extended range.

I'd say give the thunderbolt 20% damage reduction to armor + increased internals + 30-35% total heat reduction on ERPPC (20% on energy). The awesome 9M could then get the 40-50% heat reduction on ERPPC and excel in its main role.

That's what happens when you let Paul run the balance department for years, and every quarter has a new Big Thing to sell, while another mech totally needs a target nerf for REASONS.

We still have tiny engines on the hunchbacks, and it's like the only IS mech in the game that suffers ghost heat if it uses all its laser hardpoints, despite those laser hardpoints being the only reason for its existence.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 08 January 2015 - 03:51 AM.

[Navid A1]

Vassago Rain, on 08 January 2015 - 03:51 AM, said:

That's what happens when you let Paul run the balance department for years, and every quarter has a new Big Thing to sell, while another mech totally needs a target nerf for REASONS.

We still have tiny engines on the hunchbacks, and it's like the only IS mech in the game that suffers ghost heat if it uses all its laser hardpoints, despite those laser hardpoints being the only reason for its existence.

If by that you meant the long long long going band-aid system and convoluted mechanics that is being used as the balancing force, then i agree with ya.

The hunchie is a victim, i agree.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sarlic, on 08 January 2015 - 03:35 AM, said:

PPC boating or anything else to vomit with it should not be able in the game in the first place.

3-4 PPCs is in CBTs TROs since the 80s. Heck there is even a tank with 3 PPCs and 30 sinks just so it never generates heat cause vehicles are not allowed to generate heat at all on TT*! EVERY TANK CAN ALPHA STRIKE EVERY TURN.... But heaven help us if a Mech does it!


*And that is likely what PGI does not want to add them to this game... It would cause pandemonium!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 08 January 2015 - 05:08 AM.

[Sarlic]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 January 2015 - 05:07 AM, said:

3-4 PPCs is in CBTs TROs since the 80s. Heck there is even a tank with 3 PPCs and 30 sinks just so it never generates heat cause vehicles are not allowed to generate heat at all on TT*! EVERY TANK CAN ALPHA STRIKE EVERY TURN.... But heaven help us if a Mech does it!


*And that is likely what PGI does not want to add them to this game... It would cause pandemonium!

I hope you get my point.

I mean dropping HPs for a boater...seen plenty. Cicada's for example, or Stormcrows. Heck even Stalkers in the old days.

[Mott]

Davers, on 07 January 2015 - 09:59 PM, said:

Mcgral18 already told us when I asked what IS mech is the IS's Timberwolf after the Thud gets nerfed. His response is AC/5 Dragons and dual gauss Jagers.

Ammo dependent mechs will NEVER be the optimum builds to rely on in CW Dropship mode.

They're good for fighting off 1-1.5 waves, and then if you're still alive and in good shape you're forced to eject to get a mech with fresh ammo or one that is energy dependent.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sarlic, on 08 January 2015 - 05:24 AM, said:

I hope you get my point.

I mean dropping HPs for a boater...seen plenty. Cicada's for example, or Stormcrows. Heck even Stalkers in the old days.

It's hard to know/remember who is talking from a logical point and who isn't all the time Sarlic.

[Fishbulb333]

Man this thread just refuses to die... Buggrit, here's my 2 cents..

This mech in assault, conquest and skirmish? It's ok to reasonably good on most maps and fairly solid on tourmaline and alpine. Big whoop.

The only time there's any issue with it is when units field 6-12 of them at the same time in CW. Even then it's pretty much only a problem during the "kill gate generators" bit. On sulfurous it's a nuisance, on boreal it's a nightmare. Even then though, my only gripe is the velocity, ditch that in favor of something else (heat or whatever) and I couldn't care less, fire your ppc's at me from 1-2km all day if they travel at normal speeds - I'll just sidestep most of them.

Does it need a nerf? Maybe.. Probably not. Quite honestly dominating IS at range with ER-LL spam in the first week or 2 of CW was pretty boring. Sure, some folks were smart enough to use the handful of other mechs that can compete at long range (dual gauss, certain quirked LL builds - wolverines + stuff? but generally most people would pop their heads over boreal wall, eat a few LL burst then panic/hide... yawn.

I'd like to see them simply add some extra cover on the approach to the CW map gates and see how that works out before they go swinging the nerf-bat.

Also, assuming the quirks stay at or close to the level they're at now, I think it's only fair to give one of the crappier clan mechs similar PPC goodies. Similar... not the same. Personally, I'd be happy with just the velocity boost on summoner or nova, maybe a little heat reduction, but don't go nuts on that as managing heat with 2 PPC on either of those mechs is really not that hard.

Who knows, maybe I'm just salty because I <3 the Awesome, one of the first mechs I bought way back in closed beta, stuck with it for years, then when it finally got buffed into usefulness the thunderbolt turns out to be able to do the same job better and weighs 15 tons less.

That and the jumpjet & blanket PPC nerfs made my beloved summoner poptart pretty much useless and I now feel compelled to pilot bloody laser vomit timberwolves in CW to stay competitive. Gimme some PPC velocity on the summoner and whoever wants my 3 mastered, painted and geared out timberwolves can have 'em!

/end rambling incoherent dental painkiller fueled post.

[MechWarrior9376871]

Here is a challenge to all of you Whining Simpering Mewling Crying Noobs. Please link me a video of one or more TDRs stomping ANYONE.

[Kirkland Langue]

911 Inside Job, on 08 January 2015 - 06:54 AM, said:

Here is a challenge to all of you Whining Simpering Mewling Crying Noobs. Please link me a video of one or more TDRs stomping ANYONE.

Just wait, it's just a matter of time till Beef makes one.

[Kensaisama]

911 Inside Job, on 08 January 2015 - 06:54 AM, said:

Here is a challenge to all of you Whining Simpering Mewling Crying Noobs. Please link me a video of one or more TDRs stomping ANYONE.

I thought domination videos were considered porn?

[Kirkland Langue]

Mizeur, on 07 January 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

No, a mech being OP in CW doesn't mean it's only the mode. or the maps Why? Because there's no Elo matching, so it could be player skill. And there are no restrictions on drop deck composition for any single wave, only a maximum tonnage restriction for the whole drop, so it could just be that taking 12 of 1 mech variant and loadout that is perfectly designed for 1 strategy is both possible and desirable. This has potential to skew results.

Did you even read what you quoted?

Kirkland Langue, on 07 January 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

Actually, if a Mech is "only OP in CW" - that's more an indicator that it is the MAP or the GAMEMODE that are broken, not the mech.

Plus, CW doesn't match players upon skill. It's basically impossible to make a determination about whether a mech is OP or not in CW based upon wins or performance. Probably the only way to measure if something is OP or not in CW is frequency of use.. and then you aren't really measuring whether a Mech is OP or not - instead what you are doing is measuring the perception of whether a mech is OP or not.

Edited by Kirkland Langue, 08 January 2015 - 07:47 AM.

[Ultimax]

Sorry I'm late on replies.

Navid A1, on 07 January 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

Bad Geometry can be rectified with 15-20% damage reduction to armor

How much Armor can an Atlas have in it's STs?

Does it have enough armor there to run an XL?

No.


So do you give the Thunderbolts EVEN MOAR armor than that? How much do you give them to overcome their bad geometry so they can run XL?

Navid A1, on 07 January 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

out of what you mentioned only clan XL is a true advantage. PPFLD>ECM. PPFLD>JJ.
having omnipods means you have options (it creates all rounders). all rounders can not compete against purpose built mechs in their field of specialty. and the most superior field of specialty (in MWO at least) is PPFLD.

Are you saying that Hellbringers can't mount PPFLD?

Or are you saying that Hellbringers can't be as good at it as a Thunderbolt and all of their other advantages over Thunderbolts aren't enough to make you happy?

How hard do Hell Bringers need to totally dominate Thunderbolts then because if they had equal damage out put the Thunderbolt would clearly be the inferior mech.

Navid A1, on 07 January 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

There is one thing though. TDR-9S (being an over-quirked mech) is only dangerous when stacked more than 6 or 7. less than that and you can defeat them. It is less of an issue in public queues.

I.E. A lot of wet diapers on the forums, crying about one specific phase (long range trade) of one specific game mode (CW) largely limited to one specific map (Boreal) that is basically custom made for long range energy sniping builds to excel.

Deathlike, on 07 January 2015 - 10:30 PM, said:

I put out the numbers... the ERPPC did 11 heat at worst at one point (IIRC). That was pretty damn generous then. 7.5 is giving away epic awesome lol numbers.

They did 11 for every mech.

I still drop solo public, not everyone is in a 9S. In fact I don't see that many of them and I rarely bring mine.

Deathlike, on 07 January 2015 - 10:30 PM, said:

2000m/s. Yes, they went at the speed Gauss happens to be now.

So the ER PPC meta also had near hitscan projectile speeds, which the 9S clearly does not.

Deathlike, on 07 January 2015 - 10:30 PM, said:

Nope. Not even close. 1400m/s was one previous nerf, swapping values between both ERPPC and Gauss values. I remember the dark days of the man who shall not be named. I had suggested at one point swapping the values (Gauss was @ 1500m/s at that time too).

So again, far from the actual ER PPC meta.

Deathlike, on 07 January 2015 - 10:30 PM, said:

Simply readjust the quirks on it. If the velocity has to be nerfed a bit, so be it. I'd rather have its heat nerfed.

It's OK for ONE IS heavy to compete with Clan heavies.

Clan heavies are not meant to totally dominate IS heavies in every aspect of every game mode or every single build type in this game, or we will not have a real game.

Deathlike, on 07 January 2015 - 10:30 PM, said:

???

2x CERPPC Hell Bringer sniper is what I was referring to.

Yes it has splash damage, but so do TDR-9S firing 2 then 1 - because even the top players in the game aren't going to be hitting moving targets in the exact same spot when they are long range trading.

The TDR is the more efficient sniper here, no argument. The HBR has other advantages that everyone (with a clan tag) seems comfortable to repeatedly ignore.

Deathlike, on 07 January 2015 - 10:30 PM, said:

I think that is due in part of having the ERPPC meta for so long, that we have forgotten the fun of lasers. Now we have coined "laservomit". I'm pretty sure many of us are kinda done with wanting that to stay that way, but that actually involves making PPCs and ERPPCs useful for both Clan and IS without relying SOLELY on quirks.

We reap what we sow.

This next comment isn't directed at you, this is from 10 or 11 months of posting on these forums.


These forums begged for PPCs to die.

They wanted ballistics to be nerfed. Some STILL want ballistics to be nerfed.

We deserve what we have now, and we all get to suck on laser vomit all day every day with competitive options only existing on a handful of outliers or niche mechs because these forums are full of myopic, short sighted man-babies.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 08 January 2015 - 10:13 AM.

[FupDup]

Ultimatum X, on 08 January 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

We reap what we sow.

This next comment isn't directed at you, this is from 10 or 11 months of posting on these forums.


These forums begged for PPCs to die.

They wanted ballistics to be nerfed. Some STILL want ballistics to be nerfed.

We deserve what we have now, and we all get to suck on laser vomit all day every day with competitive options only existing on a handful of outliers or niche mechs...

Ultimatum X, on 08 January 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

...because these forums are full of myopic, short sighted man-babies.

https://wiki.teamfor...=20110320102431

[Joseph Mallan]

So MW:O's Thunderbolt made Mechwarrior 2,3 and 4 online players boat whatever was the best combo all those years ago! My goodness I am so glad that mystery has now been solved.

[Ultimax]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 January 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

So MW:O's Thunderbolt made Mechwarrior 2,3 and 4 online players boat whatever was the best combo all those years ago! My goodness I am so glad that mystery has now been solved.

I love when you do this.