1123 replies to this topic

[Nightmare1]

Krivvan, on 02 January 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

That's why when you nerf, you don't nerf way too far. The Highlander and Victor should only have been nerfed to the point where they're still usable and very good. As it is, they're extinct.

Victors aren't nerfed - PGI removed the negative nerfs.

Highlanders were a unicorn pretty much from the start. There was only one variant that was used widely and then it vanished after the nerf. That being said, I did see one today though...I killed it.

I agree about incremental changes. Frankly, I would rather see incremental buffs instead of big buffs followed by nerfs. There have been enough nerfs already. So many, in fact, that I'm thinking of buying this for my PC:



I've just got to figure out how to scale it to size!

[LordKnightFandragon]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

SMH

Way to oversimplify things.

Let's ignore the brief span we had with no singularly pronounced meta and how nice it was to see people playing a variety of mechs and weapon loadouts......

No meta is best meta....

Then people forget about making the "best" loadout and just go with what makes sense, what they wanna run...

Ofc, the troll loadouts still are annoying...but...meh..

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 02 January 2015 - 08:25 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ghost Badger, on 02 January 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

Yes, with quirks you see less builds on a single Chassis. There is a most prevalent build for a specific chassis. However...

Pre-quirk all you saw was one uber meta build on nearly every chassis. Do you remember the poptart meta? PPC/AC5 on Shadowhawks, Victors and Highlanders. That was ALL you see on comp teams. The same damned weapons placed on differently shaped mechs.

I'll take multiple mechs running different weapons with a 95% chance of knowing what a certain chassis is going to bring ANY day of the week over what we HAD.

Wasn't even on nearly every chassis.

There were about a half dozen chassis, and some of that, only because 3x4 forced you to have all weight classes (or there would have been no mediums in most matches) all running the same weapons.

Those were exciting and fun and interesting times.

[Wolfwood592]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

No, I'm not.



There will always be metas. Every game has them. A well balanced game, those metas are razor thin edges only really seen and maximized by the top tier comp levels. Not blatant, trainwreck metas like MWO goes through. One build one weapon metas across the entire game, is not healthy, and not mandatory.



As I said, previous to quirkening 2.0 (for a short period, post quirkening 1.0), the meta in MWO was very very nebulous, outside of the top tier teams facing top tier teams, and from what I saw there, even then there was more variety. The TW was still broken, something Russ seems unwilling to admit, but beyond that, a lot more variety. And even the TW wasn't dominating every match. Not like Dragonslayers did in the Poptart days.



Now we are back to one mech, one weapon, all the time.



To be frank, only an idiot think that is how a game should be balanced or played.

To be frank, I haven't had a single issue with Thunderbolt 9S's in the 100+ drops of CW I have had.

What I see here is a group of players who corral around the complaints of one thing to the next. Even Meta's have counters, its called smarter game play.

I understand you are defending your "right" to speak what you believe to be the correct way of moving forward in the game. But to be honest, the BIGGEST issue this game has is the whiny player base, and a group of developers who bend every time they hear this community cry loud

[Bishop Steiner]

Nightmare1, on 02 January 2015 - 08:24 AM, said:

Victors aren't nerfed - PGI removed the negative nerfs.

Highlanders were a unicorn pretty much from the start. There was only one variant that was used widely and then it vanished after the nerf. That being said, I did see one today though...I killed it.

I agree about incremental changes. Frankly, I would rather see incremental buffs instead of big buffs followed by nerfs. There have been enough nerfs already. So many, in fact, that I'm thinking of buying this for my PC:



I've just got to figure out how to scale it to size!

Um, yeah, Victors still are nerfed. Because JJs in general were nerfed into the ground, and the Assault mechs, especially the HGN, into oblivion. That jump mobility was what made those chassis truly effective, even if poptarting was not in the picture.

Taking away the other negative quirks did nothing to fix that.

Wolfwood592, on 02 January 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

swagger

how many of those drops have been against IS unit sin the last week or two? Particularly IS comp units?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 02 January 2015 - 08:29 AM.

[Krivvan]

LordKnightFandragon, on 02 January 2015 - 08:24 AM, said:

Then people forget about making the "best" loadout and just go with what makes sense, what they wanna run...

So in other words, meta. Meta builds are simply the builds that, over time, end up being accepted as the best and the ones that make the most sense. And you can't expect people to not run the most effective mechs. Most players in the game naturally try to make effective builds, and the eventual result of that is meta.

Find me any game that has any form of customization that affects gameplay and you will find meta and you will find people playing meta. It is inevitable. It applies to both multiplayer and singleplayer games.

If you've played such a game without experiencing the meta, it's not because the meta doesn't exist, but because you were insulated from it.

Edited by Krivvan, 02 January 2015 - 08:33 AM.

[MarineTech]

[Flaming oblivion]

MWO has always been one meta- nerf - next meta

You have 3 classes in MWO

Bads - steering wheel underhive
Meta bads- Guys that hop from the best mech to best mech with the current meta loadout to nerfed then move on - Because they cant compete without the meta

And finally

Pros - The guys ho find something they like excel at it and stick with it as the metas switch - these are the true great players.

[Krivvan]

Flaming oblivion, on 02 January 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

The guys who find something they like excel at it and stick with it as the metas switch - these are the true great players.

That only could've applied to Light pilots, and even that was broken finally by the Firestarter quirks. I really don't think I'd consider a player who excelled at fast small laser swaybacks in closed beta and who refused to switch should be considered a "true great player."
And like I said, meta isn't some kind of "easy mode" when both sides are running meta.

Edited by Krivvan, 02 January 2015 - 08:36 AM.

[dezgra]

I think the thunderbolts are fine. I am getting shot at by those PPC's alot, but hit very little. Normal death for me in CW is "legged" then have my face melted by lasers. Leave the Thunderbolt alone, the IS need it.

[Green Mamba]

If they nerf it they will be bowing to all the crybabies and be a Bait and Switch case after so many have bought them just for this reason .This is also the reason I haven't bought one yet because I know Pgi's and specially Paul's history with caving in to the whiners like they have so many times in the past.You cant have a Game Balance dictated by the Whims of a few "select" posters on a message board

[Bishop Steiner]

Green Mamba, on 02 January 2015 - 08:36 AM, said:

If they nerf it they will be bowing to all the crybabies and be a Bait and Switch case after so many have bought them just for this reason .This is also the reason I haven't bought one yet because I know Pgi's and specially Paul's history with caving in to the whiners like they have so many times in the past.You cant have a Game Balance dictated by the Whims of a few "select" posters on a message board

if you bought a mech because you knew the thing was OP and broken, then you don't deserve any sympathy when it gets nerfed.

[Nightmare1]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

Um, yeah, Victors still are nerfed. Because JJs in general were nerfed into the ground, and the Assault mechs, especially the HGN, into oblivion. That jump mobility was what made those chassis truly effective, even if poptarting was not in the picture.

Taking away the other negative quirks did nothing to fix that.

That's not a Victor nerf though. That's a JJ nerf. Saying "Victors are nerfed" implies that there is a specific, Victor-nerf applied to them like the ones PGI just removed.

That being said, it would be nice to see JJs restored to their previous functionality, or at least, fixed in such a way as to greatly increase maneuverability. As they currently are, they don't do much good except for helping climb the steps on Viridian Bog.

[Bishop Steiner]

Nightmare1, on 02 January 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

That's not a Victor nerf though. That's a JJ nerf. Saying "Victors are nerfed" implies that there is a specific, Victor-nerf applied to them like the ones PGI just removed.

That being said, it would be nice to see JJs restored to their previous functionality, or at least, fixed in such a way as to greatly increase maneuverability. As they currently are, they don't do much good except for helping climb the steps on Viridian Bog.

It's a VTR and HGN nerf, in so much as they are hit far worse by it, then any other mech. Especially the HGN. The VTR at least, is still viable, but the poor Highlander is just bad.

[Saiphas Cain]

So when one "nerf Thunderbolts" threads gets poo poo'd the key is to start another? Are we assuming that shouting the same thing long and frequently enough will cause change? If ERPPC bolts are killing you, then you need to get better. If a 9S boats more than 2 they hit the same heat penalties as everything else and will quickly overheat. Plenty of mechs have 30+ pinpoint alphas. The reason the 9S is attractive is it doesn't consume ammo in doing so. I run 2 ERPPC and boat DHS because I don't want to shut down while defending gates in CW. Any more than that and I still have heat issues. Bolts are tough because those 2 are in the torso and the bolt rolls damage like a champ. ERPPC's are hard to hit people with at range since there's a travel time, short as it may be, and if you're trying to brawl with them you're going to have a bad time. Mounting short ranged weaponry means sacrificing heatsinks which means reducing ERPPC rate of fire. It's all a balancing act. I see little difference between running a 9S and running a CTF-3D with dual gauss in CW.

[Hitman85]

El Bandito, on 02 January 2015 - 06:57 AM, said:

That "some range" almost doubles max AC10 range, BTW. Plus the quirked ERPPC has 250 more speed than AC10, with no bullet drop. Also, the 9S ERPPCs are mounted much higher than Ilya's Triple AC10s so less exposure is another plus.



Timberwolf is OP due to broken hitboxes + cheat-jumping as well as benefiting from every advantage the Clan tech affords it. The torsi hitboxes definitely need some rework.

Lol, then why i always loosing L or R torso? hehehe

[Green Mamba]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

if you bought a mech because you knew the thing was OP and broken, then you don't deserve any sympathy when it gets nerfed.

Pgi put the bonuses on that Mech and others because no one or very few people run them.I choose to wait and see what Paul does before making a big investment into something I may not like due to them making "adjustments"

[Navid A1]

Apparently, some people think the thundercrotch is in a good state now. Meanwhile when people ask for Nova/Adder/Summoner buffs, the answer is a big no... because clans man...***** clans... you hear me? ...clans.! lol.

Quirks are not supposed to change a mech entirely, It should give it a character... a niche. The current state of tdr-9s is more like a joke pulled out by PGI. It doesn't even need logical justifications.

[Bishop Steiner]

Green Mamba, on 02 January 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

Pgi put the bonuses on that Mech and others because no one or very few people run them.I choose to wait and see what Paul does before making a big investment into something I may not like due to them making "adjustments"

No denying they need a boost. Problem is PGI doesn't seem to understand moderation (unless it's forum moderation). The degree of OP in the quirks in a few cases should have been apparent just looking at them on paper, let alone in QA.

[Nightmare1]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 08:48 AM, said:

It's a VTR and HGN nerf, in so much as they are hit far worse by it, then any other mech. Especially the HGN. The VTR at least, is still viable, but the poor Highlander is just bad.

It's a nerf to every JJ Mech, not just those two. My SHDs, QKDs, TDR, FS, Kit Foxes, Novas, Summoners, and T-Wolves all suffer from it; not just the one Victor I own.

That being said, that lone Victor doesn't carry JJs, but it still fights well above its weight without them. There is more to life than pop-tarting. I never tried pop-tarting back when it was meta, but did find it a lot of fun to play whack-a-mole against those that did. They'd pop up, I'd shoot them, and they would drop back down. I got a lot of kills that way. Now that I actually own one of these dreaded pop-tarters, I feel no compunction to play that way. It seemed dumb back when it was popular and it still does now. With the JJ and fall damage nerfs, people would have to be crazy to still try to play that way these days.

JJs need a buff to make them viable. Without that buff, Lights and some Mediums are really the only Mechs that would want to run them. Anything bigger finds them a waste of tonnage. The JJ nerf is a nerf to JJs that afflicts all Mechs that equip JJs. Thus, it is not merely a Victor or Highlander nerf.

To be honest, the JJ nerf really only nerfs the Clans since they have locked JJs. The IS Mechs can dodge the nerf by unequipping JJs and using the extra tonnage for something else. That's what I did with my Victor, and I have had much success with it.