472 replies to this topic

[Grynos]

I have a better suggestion.. Make it so that Merc units cannot join heavily populated factions. Those that are loyalist to a faction have to be only with that one faction. Merc units contracts expire and will be refused to resign there. That should move the population around.

[Faith McCarron]

Alexander Steel, on 05 January 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

I liked the idea of calling in the reserve clans, changing the invasion lanes, and giving every IS house a clan of their own to fight.



1. There is no proof that Liao as a whole wins a great majority of their matches.

2. Losing planets night after night is playing bad.

3. Your comment sort of reminds me of a Basketball player who shoots 7-7 for the night and wonders how it's possible his team lost. Or a Hockey player who has a +2 +/- rating and is shocked to find out his team lost.

1) So your anecdote trumps my anecdote. Gotcha. Cool story, bro.

2) Not if the mechanic itself is flawed.

3) Actually, lets run with your hockey analogy. What it ACTUALLY is like for a Liao player is playing a hockey game where our team can only dress 1 line, and the Davions can dress 4. Our line outscores the Davion line 2-1, but while we are sucking air on the bench, the other 3 Davion lines shoot the puck into an empty net. At the end of the night, they have more goals and so claim they are "playing better". Mechanics FAIL.

[MischiefSC]

Faith McCarron, on 06 January 2015 - 01:11 AM, said:

1) So your anecdote trumps my anecdote. Gotcha. Cool story, bro.

2) Not if the mechanic itself is flawed.

3) Actually, lets run with your hockey analogy. What it ACTUALLY is like for a Liao player is playing a hockey game where our team can only dress 1 line, and the Davions can dress 4. Our line outscores the Davion line 2-1, but while we are sucking air on the bench, the other 3 Davion lines shoot the puck into an empty net. At the end of the night, they have more goals and so claim they are "playing better". Mechanics FAIL.

It's not even about how well or how poorly Liao plays. It's that they don't have any *options*. They get to fight Davion. That's it. In fact they *have* to fight Davion, because since that's the only direction they can go Davion needs to fight them now or we'll fight them later. Even if they fight Davion they can't go anywhere; the system will give them Davion worlds to fight in the same way you eat corn on the cob; they can't cut a line through Davion to go somewhere else. They have to fight Davion until Davion is like 60% gone; at which point they will have a border with Kurita. Unless Marik fights Davion too, in which case they will just have a longer Marik border. They have functional room for two (2) total units to get their names on worlds every day. That's it. Davion, for example, currently gets room for six (6).

Even if Davion is winning every match against Liao the problem is that they have no where else to go. Davion can get hammered by Marik and just go attack Kurita, or Liao, and try to gain ground as fast as we're losing. Even if Liao suddenly out-numbered Davion, how long would units stay with them when they get only 1 world to attack every day and put their name on or seize, when they can go elsewhere and get 2 or 3 or 4?

Bad design is bad. It's not about money, or rewards, or anything else. It's about opportunities. You don't need to balance every faction for population or keep anyone from losing or anything like that - you do however need to put some sort of effort into balancing the opportunity that each faction has open to it.

[Grynos]

Hmm isn't the map the way it was originally setup due to the lore?? So in essence it was the LORE'S crappy design that PGI stuck with.

[Maxwell Albritten]

MischiefSC, on 06 January 2015 - 01:36 AM, said:

stuff

What the eff are your rambling about? Sounds nothing more than a bunch of rubbish to try and excuse you from the fact that you joined the largest faction in hopes of just reaping the easy wins.

And besides, now that Davion can't literally dump 100% of their players on Liao due to the Marik offensive you guys suddenly can't get a win.

I see no issues.

[BlakeAteIt]

Grynos, on 06 January 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

Hmm isn't the map the way it was originally setup due to the lore?? So in essence it was the LORE'S crappy design that PGI stuck with.

There's a reason they broke up the FedCom in lore, and it wasn't character motivations.

[Thorn Hallis]

Grynos, on 05 January 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

But because there are people who love the lore Stackpole, they will stay with Davion.

ftfy

[Dimento Graven]

These guys need to take a page out of the Marik book.

From what I saw of the drops last night it "looks" like there's 50 or more people logged into a TS channel sync dropping on planets, then reorganizing into separate channels once the matches are formed.

Never fought the same mix of Marik's twice which caused some interesting 'flavoring' of the tactics employed by them. It definitely randomized the situation.

In my opinion I could see several changes made that might change things a bit:

1. Make all borders active and follow the FASA published jumpship paths for planet capture, progression, activation/deactivation (I could write a whole new thread about how it would change some of the tactics employed, but study the maps and you can probably figure it out)

2. Make sure the "OMEGA" can't be attacked until ALL GATES are opened, not just the 3 generators.

3. Change the maps so that neither attacker nor defender has a 'snipe' advantage.

4. Perhaps add a mechanic that launches strikes on any 'mech that shuts down/stands still for 30 seconds or more (just to make things interesting).

5. For turret runs/ghost drops add a ***-ton of turrets, in fact, make sure the gates, the buildings, all the trees are made out of turrets. Enough turrets to make it challenging that you could complete the match against them in 30 minutes or less.

6. Add SSRM turrets, especially around Omega.

Those are just a half dozen I could think of while writing this. I'm sure there are many more, that still would allow for the employment of numerical superiority while possibly increasing the ability to defend a planet and ensuring that a ghost drop/turret run isn't always a 'cake walk'.

[Liam Avery]

Dimento Graven, on 06 January 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

3. Change the maps so that neither attacker nor defender has a 'snipe' advantage.

Dimento? Suggesting to nerf his favorite past time? The world has ended!

[Alexander Steel]

Quote

1) So your anecdote trumps my anecdote. Gotcha. Cool story, bro.

Saying that there is no proof for your story isn't the same thing as offering another anecdote. I'm saying that you have no proof that Liao as a faction wins the vast majority of their matches. It's a claim, without any evidence that you are basing your entire argument on.

[Alexander Steel]

On a totally different note, I think that the speed that CW happens when it comes to an invasion, 1 planet a day open to attack will cause the need to reset the map more often than PGI might like. In battletech lore it took 7 days to recharge a jumpship and the burn time to planets once you jumped into a system was measured in DAYS not seconds. Meaning taking a planet took weeks. The clan Invasion was considered a scary fast blitz when they were taking 12 or so planets over a 2 month time frame at most. It was fast that it freaked the entire IS out to such a degree that they stopped fighting each other. Heck, it took almost 2 years for Davion Units to get from the FS side of things to the Steiner side to help out.

Slow things down, have the night reset count for 1 of the needed 8 wins to take a planet and allow up to 4-5 planets to be hit at a time, but each planet takes more than a week to capture, and 15 days to completely pacify.

[Dimento Graven]

Liam Avery, on 06 January 2015 - 07:24 AM, said:

Dimento? Suggesting to nerf his favorite past time? The world has ended!

LOL! Well you know... A few of the Kuritan teams sport upwards of 10 people who are at the very least 'adequate' at sniping.

When the opposing side has only 3 or 4, the first 15 minutes of the match is generally spent sniping until one side or the other gets low on ammo and/or starts losing 'mechs.

It's great for the people who like sniping, but for the rest, kind of boring, plus it causes long matches which doesn't help the side who is at a numerical disadvantage, they need to be getting in as many drops in an hour as possible to compensate for the enemy's greater numbers.

[Maxwell Albritten]

Dimento Graven, on 06 January 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

Whines

Holy crap. Davion loses two days in a row and it suddenly goes from "Game working as intended!" to "Whaa whaa change all the game mechanics so we can keep winning!"

Stackpole really did spoil the Davion fans. You guys think that if you aren't winning 100% of the time then something must be broken!

[Dimento Graven]

Alexander Steel, on 06 January 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

On a totally different note, I think that the speed that CW happens when it comes to an invasion, 1 planet a day open to attack will cause the need to reset the map more often than PGI might like. In battletech lore it took 7 days to recharge a jumpship and the burn time to planets once you jumped into a system was measured in DAYS not seconds. Meaning taking a planet took weeks. The clan Invasion was considered a scary fast blitz when they were taking 12 or so planets over a 2 month time frame at most. It was fast that it freaked the entire IS out to such a degree that they stopped fighting each other. Heck, it took almost 2 years for Davion Units to get from the FS side of things to the Steiner side to help out.

Slow things down, have the night reset count for 1 of the needed 8 wins to take a planet and allow up to 4-5 planets to be hit at a time, but each planet takes more than a week to capture, and 15 days to completely pacify.

That's why I think opening up all border worlds AND using the drop ship paths to determine which planets come into and go out of play would change things significantly.

As it is now, it's possible for the one side with numerical advantage to focus forces on the 2 or 3 open enemy planets and counter the attacks on their own 2 or 3 open planets.

Putting all border planets into play, and then using the jumpship paths to determine when another planet comes into play, or is no longer in play could dilute the numerical advantage experienced...

[Dimento Graven]

Maxwell Albritten, on 06 January 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

Holy crap. Davion loses two days in a row and it suddenly goes from "Game working as intended!" to "Whaa whaa change all the game mechanics so we can keep winning!"

Stackpole really did spoil the Davion fans. You guys think that if you aren't winning 100% of the time then something must be broken!

Actually, if you could ignore the fact that a Davion posted it, and go re-read what I stated, I think you'll find I'm on the side of "things need to be changed."

However, now that you've opened up the ******** door, ... [edit] No, first go and re-read what I posted, ignoring that I'm a Davion, and see what you think.

I think if you're reasonable you'll see it for what it actually was.

[Alexander Steel]

Wouldn't opening up the entire border completely wrek ((as they say)) smaller factions? I mean say your faction is barely able to field 60 pilots, and you are fighting 240 pilots. Suddenly your 60 can only be in 5 places ((12 man teams)) but you are getting hit in 20 places.

[Rebas Kradd]

Driftwoood, on 04 January 2015 - 02:24 AM, said:

The point of this topic was simply to log a screen cap of how Liao loses a planet every night... a pattern has emerges: Liao now loses its Davion border planet every night by virtually uncontested ghost drops, most nights now completely by ghost drops alone... I'm sure PGI has the numbers somewhere, but someone has to actually look at them to see a problem... maybe they are already aware of Liao's plight... or maybe they think ghost drops make up only 2-3% of peak hours matches and don't affect the outcome for planets, and maybe my daily screen caps will show them they do make a difference...

I'm not here to speculate or brainstorm solutions, I don't have the time or inclination, that's what PGI is paid to do... I just thought I'd help point out a problem, it takes minimal effort on my part to add a screen cap when I'm already online playing... I posted in the Liao forum, hoping to avoid any hubbub ... alas, the trolls be everywhere...

I don't blame the Davrats for ghost dropping our planets, and I'm not sure why they are so defensive about it... the facts are clear and I gave up caring about the blips on the map when I realized that we can't do anything to stop them...

CW is still in beta and ghost drops are just one of the problems with it... another big one I hear mentioned is how the larger force in att/def numbers is favored with more attack/counter attack matches vs defense/hold matches, making it very difficult for the smaller group to increase/hold their tokens... much of it comes back to population imbalances... then there's issues like light rushes...

Lots of issues... I'm sure PGI will fix them... or they won't, whatever... the new game play is fun, so...

So basically your approach is to gripe and whine without offering any solutions, and then when people tell you why the situation isn't so horrible, you stick your fingers in your ears and go LALALALALALALALAICANTHEARYOUUUUUUU?

Yeah, that's mature.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 06 January 2015 - 07:53 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Alexander Steel, on 06 January 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

Wouldn't opening up the entire border completely wrek ((as they say)) smaller factions? I mean say your faction is barely able to field 60 pilots, and you are fighting 240 pilots. Suddenly your 60 can only be in 5 places ((12 man teams)) but you are getting hit in 20 places.

I don't think so.

Plus what's the difference of 60 vs 240 spread across 3 planets as opposed to an entire border of them? It would seem to me the current situation of "less planets" to attack results in the side with superior numbers having complete advantage. If the entire border was open, the side with fewer numbers could start pushing in where the enemy isn't and spread them out, plus it would eliminate situations like along the Liao border where there is this ONE planet that hasn't been in play for quite some time, sitting in the middle of the Davion border.

[Grynos]

So let me try to figure this out. You are saying that there needs to be multiple planets to attack at once along a border?? So that factions that have a higher population have more of an edge than they currently do??

[Maxwell Albritten]

Grynos, on 06 January 2015 - 07:56 AM, said:

So let me try to figure this out. You are saying that there needs to be multiple planets to attack at once along a border?? So that factions that have a higher population have more of an edge than they currently do??

Of course they would think that. Davions are a self-entitled bunch. For example, it's not enough that they have their own subforum to post in, but they have to claim this one as well.

Because you Fedrats are a dense bunch: that last part was a subtle hint to GTFO. Seriously.

Edited by Maxwell Albritten, 06 January 2015 - 08:00 AM.