65 replies to this topic

[MightyBolamite]

I just finished a game on Boreal Vaults. IS vs Clan, counterattacking; oh joy.
We all knew it wasn't going to be a lot of fun, but we were plotting and chatting in the chat. Then, before we were even able to form up and begin to take out the gates, the Clans jump over the gates. Only one at first, and then all of them. Even a Direwhale. They spawn camped us without even taking down a gate.
How is this a thing?
For the love of... look, PGI, I have been most patient with a lot of things. But this is broken!
I am displeased that the Jade Falcons took advantage of this, but I am most displeased that it can happen in the first place.
And we were counterattacking the single win they had on the planet.

I am not in the mood for this.

[ShinVector]

Direwolf going over gate without a gate being taken down.
Screenshots/video or its a lie.

If that was a Lords group.. Getting crushed like that isn't surprising though.

[luxebo]

Lords are FRR now.

But besides that, CW in general should have some counteracting against simply spawncamping. I hate how normal play is so harsh, yet doing something niche (i.e. zerg rush of all kinds, defenders going ham outside/attack mode like OP said (which is an issue), and a few others that just shouldn't be that effective (though I would be ok if they existed to a marginal extent).)

To OP, I think you guys at one point or another got the gate (one of) down and then the Direwhale sneaked past your view. Which in this case... yeah that pretty much is game over most cases.

However it's not really a map design issue it's the rewards (though Boreal isn't broken, it's simply difficult as IS attackers without coordination and an elaborate plan), the way the mode was designed (kills >>>> generators), etc.

[Tainen]

this just happened to me, 11:25pm game time. same exact scenario you describe- the entire jade clan jumps over the walls and spawn camps us.

[ALKALIN3]

Tainen, on 02 January 2015 - 11:38 PM, said:

this just happened to me, 11:25pm game time. same exact scenario you describe- the entire jade clan jumps over the walls and spawn camps us.

If you let this happen to you, then you lost before the match started.

[Igchy]

Yes ,Direwolf can walk over the gate on the right side ,i have done it my self.I'm not sure if i want PGI to prevent the defender to hop out of gate because ...

If the attack decide not to open the gate for some reason(i.e. delay tactic) and the defender cant hop out, then the defender have to wait 30 mins to win the match.

[Tainen]

thanks for the useless reply, Aodh.

In a PUG, you don't have that choice sometimes.

Edited by Tainen, 03 January 2015 - 12:09 AM.

[Doc Sav]

I have also experienced this, although I have to say that my team on the counter attack seemed to lose mainly because of the excellent coordination of the enemy team as opposed to the simple fact that they jumped the gate.

If spawn camping is an issue, perhaps a bit of a balance would be to have a landed drop ship with automated turrets with reach to right in front of the hill that divides the gates. Maybe there should even be an incentive for damaging the drop ship, to lure the defending team out of the very defensible area directly in front of the gates. I would be interested to see what others think of this, and how they could improve on the concept.

[ztac]

IS can jump out too as well you know!

So the map is broken because clans do something ... yet the fact that IS lights can easily run in / jump over the gate and kill gens on any map is ok ? We all know there is still a lot of work to be done on CW,

There is still a lot of work to be done on the game itself... But PGI don't acknowledge that there are problems in balance , And no doubt despite the clans almost being nerfed into oblivion no doubt they will get another nerf what with the number of people that play IS compared to clans.

It is of little surprise that clan wave 2 had such a small uptake really! (who wants to pay a premium for something that is almost rubbish? (maybe 2 mechs are ok .. but not great (unless you count ECM as making a great mech!).... On the other side of the coin you are getting a great deal with the resistance collection (if you compare the prices and premium time, number of mechs in the packages etc etc )

At least the post didn't mention 'clans are op'.

[Vassago Rain]

ztac, on 03 January 2015 - 01:43 AM, said:

IS can jump out too as well you know!

So the map is broken because clans do something ... yet the fact that IS lights can easily run in / jump over the gate and kill gens on any map is ok ? We all know there is still a lot of work to be done on CW,

There is still a lot of work to be done on the game itself... But PGI don't acknowledge that there are problems in balance , And no doubt despite the clans almost being nerfed into oblivion no doubt they will get another nerf what with the number of people that play IS compared to clans.

It is of little surprise that clan wave 2 had such a small uptake really! (who wants to pay a premium for something that is almost rubbish? (maybe 2 mechs are ok .. but not great (unless you count ECM as making a great mech!).... On the other side of the coin you are getting a great deal with the resistance collection (if you compare the prices and premium time, number of mechs in the packages etc etc )

At least the post didn't mention 'clans are op'.

[YouKnowNothing]

Igchy, on 03 January 2015 - 12:03 AM, said:

If the attack decide not to open the gate for some reason(i.e. delay tactic) and the defender cant hop out, then the defender have to wait 30 mins to win the match.

there should be another way around that, not the jumping off gates thing... like taking down your own generator or opening the gates from inside, yeah it's a risk, but you should assume the risk that some might sneak through if you plan to spawn camp the attackers...

[Mike McSullivan]

i had this once, too. But i have no bis issues with this kind of tactic. Why should the defender sit in the base and wait for the Attacker if they see a chance to win by this? (*)
BUT: Boreal itself is the problem here! The attackers start more or less on a flat platform with no defensive objects. So there is no chance to avoid fire. No matter where you drop you get instasniped from the hill between the gates and beaten up by "swarming Defenders".
It would be nice if the startingzone for attackers would be more like a "frozen city". so, even if you get attacked by defenders it could turn into a very nice brawlingfight.

(*) finally it is very depending on the skill/dropdeck of the teams!

Edited by Mike McSullivan, 03 January 2015 - 02:44 AM.

[YouKnowNothing]

in my opinion, the only way out of the defense zone should be if you open up your own gates, or if you carry a shitload of JJs... and yes , i totally agree with you, the map is the problem that needs to be fixed, not the people...

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

ztac, on 03 January 2015 - 01:43 AM, said:

IS can jump out too as well you know!

So the map is broken because clans do something ... yet the fact that IS lights can easily run in / jump over the gate and kill gens on any map is ok ? We all know there is still a lot of work to be done on CW,

There is still a lot of work to be done on the game itself... But PGI don't acknowledge that there are problems in balance , And no doubt despite the clans almost being nerfed into oblivion no doubt they will get another nerf what with the number of people that play IS compared to clans.

It is of little surprise that clan wave 2 had such a small uptake really! (who wants to pay a premium for something that is almost rubbish? (maybe 2 mechs are ok .. but not great (unless you count ECM as making a great mech!).... On the other side of the coin you are getting a great deal with the resistance collection (if you compare the prices and premium time, number of mechs in the packages etc etc )

At least the post didn't mention 'clans are op'.

The Point of OP's Post.


Mount Everest


Your head.


You completely missed the point. The point being made was that an assault mech can get out of the defenders side without the gate opening...

While I don't personally see this as a problem [as really, it's not THAT hard to blow past the enemy down the other corrordor... and that if you're turtling THAT hard that a direwhale is able to get up on point to cause you a problem... well, frankly you've lost already.

[Igchy]

YouKnowNothing, on 03 January 2015 - 02:26 AM, said:

there should be another way around that, not the jumping off gates thing... like taking down your own generator or opening the gates from inside, yeah it's a risk, but you should assume the risk that some might sneak through if you plan to spawn camp the attackers...

I dont know about that.If someone crazy on defender team decide to let enemy in without any approval of the team.Its might cause a problem too.

Edited by Igchy, 03 January 2015 - 04:16 AM.

[Willard Phule]

luxebo, on 02 January 2015 - 11:24 PM, said:

Lords are FRR now.

But besides that, CW in general should have some counteracting against simply spawncamping. I hate how normal play is so harsh, yet doing something niche (i.e. zerg rush of all kinds, defenders going ham outside/attack mode like OP said (which is an issue), and a few others that just shouldn't be that effective (though I would be ok if they existed to a marginal extent).)

To OP, I think you guys at one point or another got the gate (one of) down and then the Direwhale sneaked past your view. Which in this case... yeah that pretty much is game over most cases.

However it's not really a map design issue it's the rewards (though Boreal isn't broken, it's simply difficult as IS attackers without coordination and an elaborate plan), the way the mode was designed (kills >>>> generators), etc.

They changed from yesterday afternoon? I played in a match with 8 Lords yesterday....they were all falcons.

As for OP's post....I agree that is a frustrating thing to have happen, however, while they're fixing it to stop people from going "over the wall," they also need to give the defenders some sort of control over the gates.

A strong offensive push is a good defensive strategy, sometimes, but the people on the inside can't open the gates....and they can't kill their own gate generator.

Trust me, if I was on defense and the other team was a 12 man PUG with a bad case of the "I don't want to go in, they'll shoot at me" jitters, I'd want to run 12 Omnis into their faces and shove them back to their DZ as well.

Here's an interesting question for the OP, though.....

When the Clanners came over the wall at your team, I'm assuming you were all just standing around, zoomed in and waiting for red triangles to fire your LRMs at.

That implies that even though you should have been on Offense, you had failed to drop any of the gates and were all looking directly at them when they came at you. What was wrong with your team that 12 guys couldn't take the Clan mechs as they came over the wall one and two at a time?

Were you unable to shut down ECM because noone bothered to bring active probes? Were you unable to use your LRMs because they got within your minimum range (try to tell me that's a bad tactic)?

I'm finding it hard to comprehend that 12 guys, standing still, zoomed in and ready to engage got overwhelmed by small groups of jumping mechs charging you after having to traverse a wall.

[G SE7EN7]

Devs are on holidays and have been pretty much since CW got released. Yes Boreal is F*&%$ (I mean 'really') broken. Everyone knows it, but really who gives a **** at this stage, its beta and you can still make HEAPS of cbills attacking plus stats are not tracked.

Dont worry they will fix it.

[Chemie]

Sulphur is very easy for clans to do the 12 stormcrow conga and just zerg out the gens in 2-3 waves.

Both lend themselves to specific strategies that coordinated 12-mans can exploit.

[ApolloKaras]

We lost one defense yesterday against Jade Falcon yesterday. Are you sure this isn't a coordination issue. Your team didn't pose that much of a threat to them if they pushed that quickly

We at MS will also jump gates if there is no attempt to push the gates immediately there are clans who will employ delay tactics just to keep us on the map. It's imperative that we get our groups dropping as much as possible and we cannot afford to get bogged down by groups just delaying us.

[Tordin]

Encountered this phenomena as well, bunch of Novas trainwrecking the laid out tactics we had in store