86 replies to this topic

[Antagonist]

Nightshade24, on 05 January 2015 - 05:57 PM, said:

Year of availability for DWF-C: 3054
Year of availability for ATM-6: 3060


What....

Now that you've mentioned it, that's some creative cognitive dissonance right there.

And they said time travel was impossible!

[loopala]

hmmm tbolt with ecm hmmmm

just kidding

[Vxheous]

Nightshade24, on 03 January 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

Hero Gargoyal "Gargoyle Conal" with an ECM and energy CT please.

If there is to be a Hero Gargoyle, it would be the "Ulric", not Conal.

[Antagonist]

Vxheous, on 07 January 2015 - 07:16 PM, said:

If there is to be a Hero Gargoyle, it would be the "Ulric", not Conal.

So they'll just introduce Antihero variants for all chassis. Or was that Villain?

If/when they get to the Jihad (Hello NSA!) the WoB Hero mechs are probably going to be interesting if they manage to implement the mechanics properly.

[Devil Fox]

InspectorG, on 07 January 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

ECM heavy? Why? Just use a Thunderbolt.

Really, ECM, for role purposes, should be relegated to light mechs.(plus honorary Cicada).

IS has gobs of ECM choices, Clan doesnt.

IS has a few choices... only 2 of them are worth anything in CW, the Raven and Cicada but at a price, the DDC is no Banshee or King Crab in raw output required of assaults in CW. Clan's have Kit Fox (still reasonable hardpoints) or the go to heavy mech that balances your drop deck with plenty of firepower, the Hellbringer.

You can choose to go light for more heavies, or just straight up use multiple heavy ECM's... IS either have to design heavy dropdecks to use a single Raven 3L or go super light for multiple (not counting the fact players must double up on the variants). Locust, spider and commando are all either easy kills, or if they have bad hit reg, have some of the worst firepower for lights.

A Clan assault ECM and an IS heavy ECM would balance both books, providing a staple IS ECM heavy, but also give the Clan's a choice to help (afterall Clan assault's never reach the same speed/firepower balance of IS due to fixed engines).

Ozealot, on 07 January 2015 - 06:39 PM, said:

Additionally, IS mechs don't have to trade weapon hardpoints for an ECM hardpoint as most ECM capable Clanmechs have to.

No but the machines get nerfed to compensate for ECM compared to other variants. They also can't mount the same effective weaponary or alpha that makes them a potent force on the battlefield, nor have the armour to survive extended battles of CW, unlike the Hellbringer. About the only reason IS bring ECM is they have spare tonnage and to provide some LRM blanket. We'll be lucky to start a drop with one 3L, maybe 2. Drop Clan's and at least 3-5 people use Hellbringers as their first drop deck machine. And that's only the first of 2 or 3 in their drop decks.

[Nightshade24]

HlynkaCG, on 06 January 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

[/size]

What are you talking about?

Stalker-3F versus Stalker 3Fb
Armament of Stalker STK-3F

• 2xLRM-10s
  
• 2xLarge Lasers
  
• 4xMedium Lasers
  
• 2xSRM-6s

Armament of Stalker STK-3Fb

• 2xLRM-15s + A
  
• 2xER Large Lasers
  
• 4xMedium Laser
  
• ECM

however I did notice the 3Fb lost the 2 SRM6's so I guess that'll not make it completely better then the standard 3F....

Edited by Nightshade24, 07 January 2015 - 09:56 PM.

[Nightshade24]

Apostal Sinclair, on 07 January 2015 - 09:18 PM, said:

IS has a few choices... only 2 of them are worth anything in CW, the Raven and Cicada but at a price, the DDC is no Banshee or King Crab in raw output required of assaults in CW. Clan's have Kit Fox (still reasonable hardpoints) or the go to heavy mech that balances your drop deck with plenty of firepower, the Hellbringer.

You can choose to go light for more heavies, or just straight up use multiple heavy ECM's... IS either have to design heavy dropdecks to use a single Raven 3L or go super light for multiple (not counting the fact players must double up on the variants). Locust, spider and commando are all either easy kills, or if they have bad hit reg, have some of the worst firepower for lights.

A Clan assault ECM and an IS heavy ECM would balance both books, providing a staple IS ECM heavy, but also give the Clan's a choice to help (afterall Clan assault's never reach the same speed/firepower balance of IS due to fixed engines).



No but the machines get nerfed to compensate for ECM compared to other variants. They also can't mount the same effective weaponary or alpha that makes them a potent force on the battlefield, nor have the armour to survive extended battles of CW, unlike the Hellbringer. About the only reason IS bring ECM is they have spare tonnage and to provide some LRM blanket. We'll be lucky to start a drop with one 3L, maybe 2. Drop Clan's and at least 3-5 people use Hellbringers as their first drop deck machine. And that's only the first of 2 or 3 in their drop decks.

true, but clans have no quirks to have something similar to this.

[Devil Fox]

Nightshade24, on 07 January 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

true, but clans have no quirks to have something similar to this.

Yet, the quirks only revived some of the IS machines, and in many cases down right pigeon holed so many into specific builds to maximise them. Clan's have had the first 3 mechs quirked, and I expect that more quirks are coming, that should hopefully let the Warhawk, light's and medium's have a chance at the spot light.

It's all a balancing act and wherever has PGI swiftly changed a meta? LRM's keep flip flopping, Guass took over a year and PPC even longer... even poptart took awhile...

[InspectorG]

Apostal Sinclair, on 07 January 2015 - 09:18 PM, said:

IS has a few choices... only 2 of them are worth anything in CW, the Raven and Cicada but at a price, the DDC is no Banshee or King Crab in raw output required of assaults in CW. Clan's have Kit Fox (still reasonable hardpoints) or the go to heavy mech that balances your drop deck with plenty of firepower, the Hellbringer.

You can choose to go light for more heavies, or just straight up use multiple heavy ECM's... IS either have to design heavy dropdecks to use a single Raven 3L or go super light for multiple (not counting the fact players must double up on the variants). Locust, spider and commando are all either easy kills, or if they have bad hit reg, have some of the worst firepower for lights.

But isnt that the trade off for ECM? Less combat performance?

IS ECM mechs tend to be slower or less damage output.
Kitfox has the damage but not the speed. Hence Clans lack of a 'fast' zerg option.

I just dont see why that much ECM is needed. Its just gonna make people bring more BAP/AP and with current maps, you know where the drop ships land and can see far enough in advance as to where people are going.

[Kain Demos]

Sure, just give us the Dire Wolf "C" pods in return. Also the Nova ECM head (can't remember the variant) pod.

[ExoForce]

Make KitFox runs 169 km/h and we have a deal.

[Saiphas Cain]

ExoForce, on 08 January 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

Make KitFox runs 169 km/h and we have a deal.

Sure thing. Trade ya for SSRM6 technology. Say hello to my bombtruck medium. Playfield leveled.

[Devil Fox]

InspectorG, on 08 January 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

But isnt that the trade off for ECM? Less combat performance?

IS ECM mechs tend to be slower or less damage output.
Kitfox has the damage but not the speed. Hence Clans lack of a 'fast' zerg option.

I just dont see why that much ECM is needed. Its just gonna make people bring more BAP/AP and with current maps, you know where the drop ships land and can see far enough in advance as to where people are going.

Kitfox was built as a skirmisher, not a scout. Clan's can use Myst Lynx but not everyone has those, instead what Clan's have for 'fast' zerg option is armour and mobile firepower in the Crow/Wolf rushes. The one mech that doesn't really lose much firepower for ECM is the Hellbringer... hell that ECM torso is still one of the best torso's without ECM because of the 3 high mounted energy.

ECM is a force balancer, you don't know what's there, you gotta get close to it. Whilst you can spot where people are, or where their reinforcing, you still have no clue on what build they are, and damage whilst their under ECM, or over 1000m away. As it is there are so many Streak or LRM machines on the field that BAP is always around as it is.

[RustyBolts]

Nunspa, on 03 January 2015 - 08:38 PM, said:

Can we (IS) get a heavy with ECM.. please

just one :/

Can we (Clans) get an assault with ECM. Please just one.

[B0oN]

Can we get an effing level playingfield first, thxcbbcyaGGhalfclothed

[Apocryph0n]

Kjudoon, on 03 January 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

Make it the IS version of the Hellbringer that is even more LRM heavy and watch the hate flooooowwwwwwwwww

This is implying that LRM Hellbringers would actually be decent mechs. They are not.

But please make it a LRM heavy, that would mean 1 less IS mech for competitive play

Until then: Live with it, Clans don't have ECM Mediums and Assaults, IS get no heavy, that's the deal.

Nightshade24, on 05 January 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

It's an 80 ton assault mech. It's an assault.

It still handles like a heavy with way less podspace: I would not even entitle it to being a Heavy mech. Maybe obese Medium mech.

Edited by Apocryph0n, 12 January 2015 - 12:59 AM.

[Nightshade24]

Apostal Sinclair, on 07 January 2015 - 11:34 PM, said:

Yet, the quirks only revived some of the IS machines, and in many cases down right pigeon holed so many into specific builds to maximise them. Clan's have had the first 3 mechs quirked, and I expect that more quirks are coming, that should hopefully let the Warhawk, light's and medium's have a chance at the spot light.

It's all a balancing act and wherever has PGI swiftly changed a meta? LRM's keep flip flopping, Guass took over a year and PPC even longer... even poptart took awhile...

Quirks have brought up all the IS mechs to top performance.

I can't really name one that isn't that bad. (I can name some that could do better. but it's more balanced now amongst the T5 to T1 mecsh then ever before... I can take a hunchback out without meta players vomiting over the useless team mate)


Also the few Clan mecsh with quirks are mathetic... they did help but not as much as even the T2 quriks for some IS mechs... I noticed we have no weapon specific quirks either...


Also on topic of that you said the quirks made some builds not valid...

I say that's silly..

Awesome can avoid using 4 LRM 15's and still be fine.
My locust 1v still has 4 mg's and a medium laser instead of an er large.
My Thunderbolt 5SS only carries 2 medium pulse lasers and carries 3 large pulse lasers and 2 small pulse lasers with ease and my 9SE doesn't even have a single weapon that uses the quriks but that's still fine.
I got a Banshee 3E using PPC's instead of large pulses and I got a huggin with streaks instead of SRM 4's.

I still think getting outside of the quriekd weapon is okay...

Besides a thunderbolt 9S. because there is no reason to not do 3 ER PPC's....

[wanderer]

There's one pre-3050 heavy that gets ECM capacity- and that was the prototype Cataphract-0X, which never went into mass production and used the old 7.5T EW (pre-tech-recovery) system. And had a remote sensor dispenser (think "ground bound version of the UAV") for good measure!

The Griffin-2N was an Star League "Royal", which meant it went extinct back around the 1st Succession War.

If you were giving a heavy the "I'm bad" consolation prize of an ECM slot, it'd likely be the Quickdraw. Poor thing. But you could likely sneak in a Cataphract-0X [C] with the appropriate bits modified to "modern" 3050 IS tech and extra heat sinks to replace the weight savings for the ECM/Beagle that'd replace the EW package/remote sensor dispenser.

[That Dawg]

Give them all ECM. Problem solved.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Give ECM to a variant of the Black Knight, a mech known to have both advanced communications gear, and regular field modifications.

Simple and easy solution.

Edited by Kevjack, 07 February 2015 - 06:34 PM.