177 replies to this topic

[Max Liao]

I just started running the 9S to see what the hype is about, and to better assist in CW. I would agree that it is overpowered, except for one issue ... PPC hit tracking.

I put 12 ... TWELVE ... ERPPC shots into the right torso of a stationary Kintaro (at 290m) and didn't open it up. It was not moving, I was not moving, and he was lobbing missile at someone else. 12 shots, 4 salvos of 3 in chain fire mode, and I turned his armor red. Tell me what Kintaro can take more than 120 points to the right torso?

While this is an extreme case, I can cite examples of putting a three-shot into the back of a Vindicator and turning it yellow; putting innumerable shots into the back of a Stalker just to watch it walk away; and let's not get into the Firestarter issues.

My point is that I do agree that the 9S CAN be overpowered, but there are other factors that make me feel a greater understanding of the background mechanics needs to be had before simply crying "OP OP OP!"

[EvilCow]

Wintersdark, on 04 January 2015 - 11:56 AM, said:

Sadly, the players that matter are also the players that can actually hit things. If you can't hit a Timberwolf with a velocity boosted tdr-9s'd erppc's, you've got other issues to deal with.

So lets nerf the players that can actually hit stuff. I see your point.

[Yokaiko]

EvilCow, on 04 January 2015 - 11:58 AM, said:

So lets nerf the players that can actually hit stuff. I see your point.

Its just as easy to do that with dual guass Jagers, just the jager falls apart if its breathed on.

.....Thuds on the otherhand soak a TON of damage before they go down.

[Appogee]

In a game where Streakboat StormCrows and laser vomit Timbies are so dominant, it seems odd to be singling out ERPPC Tbolts.

[Wintersdark]

EvilCow, on 04 January 2015 - 11:58 AM, said:

So lets nerf the players that can actually hit stuff. I see your point.

Give me a break.

Obviously that's not my point. Nobody thought dual gauss jags where underpowered. But the difference between the two is absurd. The Thud can do the same 30 put long range strike, but can also chainfire forever with no heat issues, has a larger, standard engine and better hitboxes. It's literally superior in every way but one, by a vast margin.

Projectile speed is lower - the only disadvantage of the Thud. And even then, hitting mechs isn't hard, particularly when there's no real penalty for missing. At long range, you can just chainfire endlessly suppressing when you're not just wrecking. Lights are tough, but even individual PPC impacts wreck lights. But against Stormcrows and Timberwolfs? Hard to miss.

[Yokaiko]

Wintersdark, on 04 January 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

Give me a break.
The Thud can do the same 30 put long range strike, but can also chainfire forever with no heat issues,to miss.

This is utter crap.

[Wintersdark]

Appogee, on 04 January 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

In a game where Streakboat StormCrows and laser vomit Timbies are so dominant, it seems odd to be singling out ERPPC Tbolts.

Laser vomit timbies are only so common because there aren't really any good options otherwise. Streak boat Stormcrows as well are purely a response to Firestarters rushing, and are worthless except against light swarms. Streakboats and light rushes both being great examples of perfectly viable focused strategies and counter strategies.

Laser vomit timbies are the very unfortunate result of crappy clan ballistics and such. Don't think clan players love running boring laser vomit builds all the time.

If toned down somewhat, I wouldn't object to the TDR 9s,but really 7.5 heat ERPPC's? Like I said before, it was the old 4ppc stalker that was viewed as such a problem it gave us Ghost Heat, and the 3ERPPC 9S is a much more dangerous build than the stalker ever was.

[Wintersdark]

To be clear, I'm also of the opinion that Clan XL's should be nerfed somewhat too - a 70 percent max speed with side torso destruction. But that would need to come alongside buffs to the crappy clan Chassis, as they're *really* bad right now. Stormcrows and Timberwolves could use that nerf.

And, yeah, I exaggerated with "can chainfire forever with no heat issues" - I've got the mech, and use it regularly. Anyone using it is quite aware of just how much it CAN fire, chainfiring away, though. The thing totally dominates dual gauss mechs in an utterly embarassing fashion, and dual gauss mechs are hardly UP.

[LastKhan]

911 Inside Job, on 04 January 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

You're full of brown stuff. I have played at least 100 T-bolt matches. It is one of the best IS mechs, but no where near a TW, DIRE, Crow, Firestarter, etc. I think I have broken a 1000 damage once with 4 kills. I have broken 1200 on Dires, TWs, Crows, Firestarters, Summoners, Cataphracts, Kit Fox!!!!!!, and Atlasi usually with 5-6 kills.

No one uses an IS ERPPC because it is the crapiest weapon in the game right now (I dont even call the Flamer a weapon). The only way it is usable is with the quirks

Thats just your opinion, cant tell if your trolling but damn. Ive shredded more mechs just volley after volley of PPC's no problems and had alot of top dmg matches and kills. Ill play some more with it and get ya a SS if you like.

Again, Not saying that it should be nerfed entirely. Just reduce the er ppc qaurks by maybe 5% or 10%. You guys are losing your crap when the mech does show an issue to be addressed or maybe ur just trolling. (shiii I'll even to go as far as saying i would love the 5S to get a ac5 quark :x )

Edited by LastKhan, 04 January 2015 - 02:51 PM.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Yes the heat quirk needs to be toned down some. That said, their preponderance in CW and uncommonality in normal modes indicates more of an issue with CW than with the 9s in general.

[KrazedOmega]

Green Mamba, on 04 January 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

I am sure glad "ALL "Clan Drop Decks don't include Stormcrows or Timberwolves then that alone would make me say they need a nerfbat

KrazedOmega, on 04 January 2015 - 05:44 AM, said:

With a variety of different weapons. Not all boating the same thing.

[Ultimax]

KrazedOmega, on 04 January 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

With a variety of different weapons. Not all boating the same thing.

That's because those mechs have options, beyond one single specialist load out.

[jlawsl]

I have been on the training grounds, testing the effectiveness of my AWS-9M vs the TDR-9S and have to say that the quirk is a little too much. The 8Q is a mech(lorewise) pretty much build around normal PPCs, the 9M is an upgrade build specifically around ERPPCs. With max heat sinks, I could shoot 3 ERPPCS nowhere nearly as efficiently at the 9S. Its not too bad with 2, and doing full damage at 1094 meters with 10% better speed then the TDR. But for heaven's sake, the heat.

If I was playing any of the AWS models or almost any other assault mech, you could mount 3 ERLL and chain fire them pretty efficiently, which put out more heat then an ERPPC on the 9S while not being nearly as effective at killing stuff. ERPPCs at that heat have very little in the way of drawbacks. If the TDR was even a 55 ton mech, this wouldn't be an issue, but it is able to carry 3 ERPPCs without sacrificing much in the way of speed or heat efficiency.

[Ultimax]

jlawsl, on 04 January 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

I have been on the training grounds, testing the effectiveness of my AWS-9M vs the TDR-9S and have to say that the quirk is a little too much. The 8Q is a mech(lorewise) pretty much build around normal PPCs, the 9M is an upgrade build specifically around ERPPCs. With max heat sinks, I could shoot 3 ERPPCS nowhere nearly as efficiently at the 9S. Its not too bad with 2, and doing full damage at 1094 meters with 10% better speed then the TDR. But for heaven's sake, the heat.

If I was playing any of the AWS models or almost any other assault mech, you could mount 3 ERLL and chain fire them pretty efficiently, which put out more heat then an ERPPC on the 9S while not being nearly as effective at killing stuff. ERPPCs at that heat have very little in the way of drawbacks. If the TDR was even a 55 ton mech, this wouldn't be an issue, but it is able to carry 3 ERPPCs without sacrificing much in the way of speed or heat efficiency.

How many Awesomes do you see in the solo queue?

The group queue?

CW?

If you're answer is "few to none" that matches my experience.



The Thunderbolts were previously every bit as bad as Awesomes.


The quirks have to be extreme, or you won't see these otherwise poorly designed mechs on the field, because their physicial design is extremely bad.



How many 9SEs and 5S do you see? Few to none.


So you have people begging to tone down the 9S, so it can be every bit as unused as those Awesome we almost never see?

Edited by Ultimatum X, 04 January 2015 - 05:04 PM.

[Serpieri]

Appogee, on 04 January 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

In a game where Streakboat StormCrows and laser vomit Timbies are so dominant, it seems odd to be singling out ERPPC Tbolts.

Odd not really - it's about fairness - the Awesome and the Warhawk should receive similar benefits after all these mechs are actually built to utilize these weapons where as the Thunderbolt wasn't.

[darkchylde]

Ultimatum X, on 04 January 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

How many Awesomes do you see in the solo queue?

The group queue?

CW?

If you're answer is "few to none" that matches my experience.



The Thunderbolts were previously every bit as bad as Awesomes.


The quirks have to be extreme, or you won't see these otherwise poorly designed mechs on the field, because their physicial design is extremely bad.



How many 9SEs and 5S do you see? Few to none.


So you have people begging to tone down the 9S, so it can be every bit as unused as those Awesome we almost never see?

It's nice to see thunderbolts used - but what many seem to find strange is that the mech has become the go to PPC platform where other mechs currently in game which are true PPC platforms are outperformed by a mech that isn't but due to the quirks it has now been regulated to that role. So the solution is simple, quirk the stock mechs in the same fashion as the T-Bolt so that they could also utilize their weaponry effectively.

Edited by darkchylde, 04 January 2015 - 05:16 PM.

[Ultimax]

darkchylde, on 04 January 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

but what many seem to find strange is that the mech has become the go to PPC platform where other mechs currently in game which are ...

It's not strange to objective viewers.

240 drop decks means that the IS requires top tier competitive mechs in the 50 to 75 ton range to compete with Storm Crows, Hellbringers and Timber Wolves.

[darkchylde]

Ultimatum X, on 04 January 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

It's not strange to objective viewers.

240 drop decks means that the IS requires top tier competitive mechs in the 50 to 75 ton range to compete with Storm Crows, Hellbringers and Timber Wolves.

This isn't just about clans vs is. It's about having all mechs be competitive so that we don't continually see the same stagnation over and over. So once again, we have another meta because the thunderbolt is successful in further burying the Awesome and other like mechs into obscurity by taking away what those mechs were supposed to excel at. Yet, for some reason it's not ok for them to have the same quirks that were responsible for the thunderbolts rise from the ashes?

[Yokaiko]

darkchylde, on 04 January 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

This isn't just about clans vs is. It's about having all mechs be competitive so that we don't continually see the same stagnation over and over. So once again, we have another meta because the thunderbolt is successful in further burying the Awesome and other like mechs into obscurity by taking away what those mechs were supposed to excel at. Yet, for some reason it's not ok for them to have the same quirks that were responsible for the thunderbolts rise from the ashes?

Face two full waves of storm crows every game as well, usually more like three.

[Corbon Zackery]

You guys going crazy because some team put 3 er ppc on them, and beat up some clan mechs.

Here's a tissue for you to cry in.