177 replies to this topic

[Cyborne Elemental]

Yes. its OP.

But not by a huge margin.

Change the % so that ERPPC sits at around 10-12 heat instead of 7.5, then the only thing really gained is "no 90M min" and some decent range out of the deal.

So that the 9S Quirk setup ends up as this.
(taken from December update PASS-2, highlighted my thoughts)

Additional Structure (LT&RT) +15
ER-PPC HEAT GEN -12.5% (down from -25%)
ER-PPC VELOCITY +15%
ER-PPC COOLDOWN +7.5% (down from +12.5%)
ENERGY WEAPON HEAT GEN -25%
ENERGY COOLDOWN +12.5%
LASER DURATION -15%

[Ultimax]

When I see some of the people in this thread advocating nerfs to the handful of top tier mechs in this game, I will believe they are sincerely worried about balance and not just agenda-mongering shills.


The Thunderbolt 9S is a mech that is very good at one single niche, and has a laundry list of short-commings to make up for it.

[Martis Gradivus]

My take is that with the ERPPC quirks, you remove the only real Achilles Heel that this mech could have, and that is close in. ERPPC not having a min range means that the mech is as good at 800 meters as it is as 8 meters which means you cannot mitigate it as you could, say, a 4 LRM 10 STK-4F with no backup weapons....that STK is deadly between 180 and 1000 (1100 with module) range, but charging inside the min range and it is meat on the table.....the TDR doesn't have that.

Maybe keep the quirk levels as is but make them PPC, not ERPPC. Gives the mech a "weakness" while not overly nerfing it.

Edited by Martis Gradivus, 04 January 2015 - 01:32 AM.

[Kiryuin Ragyo]

#L2P
#crymore

[derFiend]

Very simple: change some values of 9s in change of a Stormcrow hitbox fix

[El Bandito]

Thunderbolts' heat reduction quirks are overdone. They need to be reduced.

[norus]

Martis Gradivus, on 04 January 2015 - 01:31 AM, said:

My take is that with the ERPPC quirks, you remove the only real Achilles Heel that this mech could have, and that is close in. ERPPC not having a min range means that the mech is as good at 800 meters as it is as 8 meters which means you cannot mitigate it as you could, say, a 4 LRM 10 STK-4F with no backup weapons....that STK is deadly between 180 and 1000 (1100 with module) range, but charging inside the min range and it is meat on the table.....the TDR doesn't have that.

Maybe keep the quirk levels as is but make them PPC, not ERPPC. Gives the mech a "weakness" while not overly nerfing it.

I'm not a fan of switching it from ERPPC to PPC, there are already quite a few mechs with standard ppc quirks... Unsurprisingly they aren't popular. I've very very very rarely seen a standard ppc on anything these days, which makes my huginn sad.

[Senor Cataclysmo]

I see a lot of Thunderbolts and I suppose people wouldn't be using them if they weren't good. I don't feel like they're totally ridiculous though, I certainly don't feel like they have an unfair advantage. Maybe a slight toning down is in order, but I wouldn't like to see them smashed into oblivion with the nerf bat.

[Kirtanus]

I think -30% should be ok for erppc quirk. Current -50% is too sweet with such good hardpoints. Half goodness of this mech is high mounted energy hardpoints. Awesome-9M should have better erppc quirks as it has low mounted weapons.

[Pat Kell]

I was about to type in how I would like to see the projectile speed reduced as it's pretty spot on, then I remembered that my previous post talked about the IS not having anything all that threatening at long range. Brawlers are rough but at long range, you guys either PPC or LRM and LRM's aren't really a threat unless you're legged.

[Kiryuin Ragyo]

El Bandito, on 04 January 2015 - 02:56 AM, said:

Thunderbolts' heat reduction quirks are overdone. They need to be reduced.

Nope. Stop envy just cause your clan-top notch- high tech rubbish don't have blast freezer with beer.

[Golden Vulf]

I guess IS forgot about how they can dual Gauss or equip ER Large. All they want is infinite ammo lightning machine guns now.

Unlike Gauss, they don't have to make every shot count because of precious ammo in CW, just fire a volley of shots constantly, something will hit.

Kiryuin Ragyo, on 04 January 2015 - 03:06 AM, said:

Nope. Stop envy just cause your clan-top notch- high tech rubbish don't have blast freezer with beer.

Actually yes.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 04 January 2015 - 03:07 AM.

[GumbyC2C]

I thought the 9S was boss before the quirks. I used it with two ERPPCs in the right shoulder for periscope sniping and did very, very well with it. Now it's an unstoppable death machine (and mine is not even the 3xERPPC flavor) I don't know why they went way overboard with the quirks on that one, but they did for sure.

[Kiryuin Ragyo]

Golden Vulf, on 04 January 2015 - 03:06 AM, said:

I guess IS forgot about how they can dual Gauss or equip ER Large. All they want is infinite ammo lightning machine guns now.

Unlike Gauss, they don't have to make every shot count because of precious ammo in CW, just fire a volley of shots constantly, something will hit.



Actually yes.

LOL. Actually infinite ammo lightning machine they got, ta-daaam.... Vindicator with 2xPPC.

[kapusta11]

Of course it's not OP, Dual Gauss heavies are better in every aspect, ammo is not an issue since once you run out of it with all your mechs you're suppesed to deal 1.5-2.5k damage already.

If it were up to me I'd give 50% weapon heat gen quirk to all mechs, or buffed dissipation 2 times, the effect is the same, it should've been done from the start anyways because it's how it were meant to be according to TT.

Edited by kapusta11, 04 January 2015 - 03:44 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Just stop nerfing every damn thing in game. I take crap here for wanting in game voip in solo but the same people cry over an over to nerf everything.

Leave it a lone and adapt. That's what happens in combat for real. You cant ask the enemy to stop using something that works well.

[xe N on]

Compared to other IS mechs, the TDR is clearly quirked over the top. I also would like to have 50% heat reduction and 25% reload time for my SHDs and my GRFs ...

It would have been sufficient to quirk the ER-PPCs to 10 of a normal PPC. That would have been already strong. But currently it is reduced to 7.5 which next to a large laser!

Edited by xe N on, 04 January 2015 - 04:00 AM.

[El Bandito]

Kiryuin Ragyo, on 04 January 2015 - 03:06 AM, said:

Nope. Stop envy just cause your clan-top notch- high tech rubbish don't have blast freezer with beer.

I suggest you do wipe the dirt off your eyes cause I am not a Clanner. However, I will call out imbalance whenever I see one.

[KrazedOmega]

Vassago Rain, on 04 January 2015 - 01:28 AM, said:

IS has one robot that gets range on the clans.

I vote that if we 'tone it down,' we also straight up remove the clan 50% range advantage on practically everything.

Only thing is that most of its use is not at max range. Sure people take pot shots at that distance, but when they close range in the base in CW it becomes even more deadly.

Mudhutwarrior, on 04 January 2015 - 03:45 AM, said:

Just stop nerfing every damn thing in game. I take crap here for wanting in game voip in solo but the same people cry over an over to nerf everything.

Leave it a lone and adapt. That's what happens in combat for real. You cant ask the enemy to stop using something that works well.

You don't "adapt" to facing 16 of them in CW. At that point it's leaning more towards abuse, just like the light zergs. Sure it's effective, but I'm sure it's not what was intended and it doesn't really make the game fun for the side that it's used against.

A couple of them are fine, just a bit over the top. It's when you get entire lances full of them that it becomes a problem.

Edited by KrazedOmega, 04 January 2015 - 05:41 AM.

[KuroNyra]

Vassago Rain, on 04 January 2015 - 01:28 AM, said:

IS has one robot that gets range on the clans.

I vote that if we 'tone it down,' we also straight up remove the clan 50% range advantage on practically everything.

Already done thanks to the quirks;

Howait, you don't play at this game anymore.