78 replies to this topic

[Abivard]

Angel Devereaux, on 07 January 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

We didn't have the numbers to defeat the attacks on our planets, for every 12 man we could put out the FRR can put out 2, we felt the time would be better spent helping our Jaguar friends defend their planet and take a Kuritan one while we were at it.

Are you claiming the FRR is double the number of the Largest clan faction?

It would be much more true to say that FRR and CGB are now about equal in population size after a three week period where CGB outnumbered the FRR by a three to one or better margin.

[Navid A1]

Ben Delat, on 07 January 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

Well, sayin Piloting Skill has nothing to do with Balance, is at least questionable.

A SCR can outright destroy my TDR, if he is clever enough to get close to me, and keeps movin.
If he decides to stayx in his Range of the ERML and wants to do an Mexican stand off, well, ur fault.
...

This is only valid in a 1v1 duel... not 12v12.

Ben Delat, on 07 January 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

...
U want Easy Mode, and recite the Lore for it.

U are disappointed that ur expensive Mechs don t destroy everything with a single push on a button.
(I have all of these clan mechs too, and i have bought them too, all of em)
...

nope.
everyone wants equal chances where superior tactics is the final deciding factor. Not a single over-performing chassis creating a biased stand off.

Ben Delat, on 07 January 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

...
and the strategy part, well, it isnt working for u right now.
Maybe when MS comes back in a week. I am actually looking forward to the return of MS to GB Territory.
the u might have an excuse to put up a fight.

Well of course. Right now you have probably every elite unit fighting for you. These guys Carry out superior tactics even with closed eyes... we know that.
Maybe CGB units don't have an excuse to put up a fight because we know its going to be in vain. Most of the large clan units are not tournament winning types you know. So i think they put resources were there is an outcome (like a captured kurita planet last night)

[Ben Delat]

Quote

TDR can kill SCR in three alphas at 800 meters, which is roughly 10 seconds and a bit of luck. TDR can keep doing that for all ranges under those 800m too. No matter what SCR takes, it has nothing to counter this level of combat efficiency. To be honest if SCR kills your TDR these days you must be really bad pilot or you must be doing something you shouldn't.

Well that is sinmply wrong. At least in a Game, where the SCR Pilot at least tries to play and moves his mech.....


My TDR 9 S Variant with 3 ERPPC´s cant fire 3 alphas without overheating. and then the Heat goes down rather slowly.

And my 2 ER PPC Build cant take a SCR out in 3 Alphas either. If this happen to u, well, there is this thing called "Armour", u should put it on ur mech, instead of more Weapons. They aren´t fully set with Armour from the beginning.....

concerning the Units in the FRR:
yes, we have a number of Units with us at the Moment. But they oganize each other, over the Timezones!

And we do not have every "Elite Unit" in the fRR, the German 12th donegals for Example is a very, very, good Unit. they stay with steiner.
UR MS choose to Leave GB...... if there is an Explanation for this, pls. show me the Thread, because that seriously interests me.

and i wouldn´t call my Unit, the Phoenix Legion, an "Elite" Unit. yes, we are Big. We have about 158 Members, in MWO.
every Evening thers at least one 12 Men Group and some "Pugs" playin CW.
But we are organized, we can, every couple of Weeks, organize an Event, where we put between 50 and 70 Players in CW, last seen past Saturday. Won´t happen this Saturday, though.

We were FRr from the start, only over the Holiday we changed to Liao, for a Week, then to go back to FRR.
Some R&R on the Davion front.....
Luckily PGI decided to up the rewards for FRR during the Period.

We will stay with FRR with the FRR, before we change Employers.
I personally, although Davion "Fanboy" would like to go tu Kurita, they get really pounded at the moment.

Edited by Ben Delat, 08 January 2015 - 01:38 AM.

[Ben Delat]

Quote

nope.
everyone wants equal chances where superior tactics is the final deciding factor. Not a single over-performing chassis creating a biased stand off.

Easy: Use LRM´s and/or rush with SCR´s to the Brawl. While Brawlin push "R", that is very important, push "R", so ur LRM people can KEEEP Firing! And the SCR´s will have to KEEEP MOVIN, so that there is cahnce, that not every PPC Shot hits the SCR.
The TDR will overheat very rapidly.

Gosh, do i really have to tell u, wich advantages to use?



Right now, we have equal chances. U can see that purely because: Every Faction is sayin that hte other is OP.
I personally think, that is a good sign. Its better, than one complainin faction and the other not complainin at all.

[Angel Devereaux]

Abivard, on 07 January 2015 - 11:52 PM, said:

Are you claiming the FRR is double the number of the Largest clan faction?

It would be much more true to say that FRR and CGB are now about equal in population size after a three week period where CGB outnumbered the FRR by a three to one or better margin.

Neg, what I am saying is that at this time the FRR is fielding more 12 man groups than GB can field, so for every 12 man we deploy you have another one ghost winning, I am not trying to imply any sinister intentions, it is just a fact, so when we did get a 12 man together we decided that the most likely chance at victory that night was aiding the Jaguars and attacking Kurita. Unfortunately with the limited about of people we have logging in to play we will have to accept that there are going to be losses and we will have to fight where we think there will be the greatest chance of success, I do not believe anyone would begrudge us that. I do however, apologize for not being able to bring you the great fights you so desire.

Regards,

Angel Devereaux
Star Captain, 1st Bear Guard 312th Assault Trinary
Clan Ghost Bear International

[Shikata nai]

Ben Delat, on 08 January 2015 - 01:30 AM, said:

Well that is sinmply wrong. At least in a Game, where the SCR Pilot at least tries to play and moves his mech.....


My TDR 9 S Variant with 3 ERPPC´s cant fire 3 alphas without overheating. and then the Heat goes down rather slowly.

And my 2 ER PPC Build cant take a SCR out in 3 Alphas either. If this happen to u, well, there is this thing called "Armour", u should put it on ur mech, instead of more Weapons. They aren´t fully set with Armour from the beginning.....

concerning the Units in the FRR:
yes, we have a number of Units with us at the Moment. But they oganize each other, over the Timezones!

And we do not have every "Elite Unit" in the fRR, the German 12th donegals for Example is a very, very, good Unit. they stay with steiner.
UR MS choose to Leave GB...... if there is an Explanation for this, pls. show me the Thread, because that seriously interests me.

and i wouldn´t call my Unit, the Phoenix Legion, an "Elite" Unit. yes, we are Big. We have about 158 Members, in MWO.
every Evening thers at least one 12 Men Group and some "Pugs" playin CW.
But we are organized, we can, every couple of Weeks, organize an Event, where we put between 50 and 70 Players in CW, last seen past Saturday. Won´t happen this Saturday, though.

We were FRr from the start, only over the Holiday we changed to Liao, for a Week, then to go back to FRR.
Some R&R on the Davion front.....
Luckily PGI decided to up the rewards for FRR during the Period.

We will stay with FRR with the FRR, before we change Employers.
I personally, although Davion "Fanboy" would like to go tu Kurita, they get really pounded at the moment.

Sorry but comparing 12 DG with Lord SJR 228 ex-Lord etc. is just bullshit. These Units are with some others the best of the world and 12 DG are not at this level (not saying they are a bad team!). There are only few that could potentially get a 50% Winrate against them and they are not combined and most of them are not even in the right timezone to do anything againt it now. Its just absolutely no point in arguing against that and thus there is no reason to fight these fights, especially since most of us can't contest them directly due to timezones besides the weekend. Even if e.g. STS, which imho is the best team on Bearterritory manages to win all their games in one evening against one of these Teams all the others will most likely win most of theirs and the wins of STS will have no effect.
Why should someone even try? Better get some Scrims rolling!
Maybe it will get better with the 3 ceasefires

Edited by Lachesis Muta, 08 January 2015 - 10:40 AM.

[Bregor Edain]

Abivard, on 07 January 2015 - 11:42 PM, said:

Not so,

The lore made it so that a genetically enhanced and superior Clan warrior was able to duel two or more 'Freebirth' pilots in the same weight and chassis as the Clan warrior.

PGI can not make an average player into an Uber player just by them choosing a clan faction.

As much as the Clan warriors believed themselves to be superior in lore, it was the technological superiority of their mechs that allowed them to crush mechs of the same and higher weight class. This tech difference was reduced after Tukayyid but even before that there is plenty of lore to show freebirths where just as capable of being equal or better than trueborn warriors regardless of technology.

[Abivard]

Bregor Edain, on 08 January 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

As much as the Clan warriors believed themselves to be superior in lore, it was the technological superiority of their mechs that allowed them to crush mechs of the same and higher weight class. This tech difference was reduced after Tukayyid but even before that there is plenty of lore to show freebirths where just as capable of being equal or better than trueborn warriors regardless of technology.

In Lore they WERE genetically superior, they did not simply 'think' they were. Sure the most Exceptional of the Natural born Mech warrior elites were sometimes able to match an above average vat baby.

In addition they enjoyed a slight technical advantage in mechs, their true edge was the pilots, not the mechs.

Clan players have to bring their own piloting and gunnery skills, no one can grant them superior skills and reflexes simply by choosing clan mech over and IS mech.

[Abivard]

Lachesis Muta, on 08 January 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

Sorry but comparing 12 DG with Lord SJR 228 ex-Lord etc. is just bullshit. These Units are with some others the best of the world and 12 DG are not at this level (not saying they are a bad team!). There are only few that could potentially get a 50% Winrate against them and they are not combined and most of them are not even in the right timezone to do anything againt it now. Its just absolutely no point in arguing against that and thus there is no reason to fight these fights, especially since most of us can't contest them directly due to timezones besides the weekend. Even if e.g. STS, which imho is the best team on Bearterritory manages to win all their games in one evening against one of these Teams all the others will most likely win most of theirs and the wins of STS will have no effect.
Why should someone even try? Better get some Scrims rolling!
Maybe it will get better with the 3 ceasefires

What is it with this OP and so many other CGB's with excuses, I do not recall seeing FRR units doing this when we went through 3 weeks of hard times.

You all seemed to think it was fair when you had the top merc units and the FRR had naught but small house units, in Fact many of you came to the FRR boards to gloat, trash talk and even do 'stolen valor' posts.

Or maybe it is just a faction thing, FRR are tough because we always have had it tough, clans are soft because they have always had it easy in CW?

Prove me wrong, fight don't go belly up, rage against the dying of the Clans, don't go meekly into that final darkness.

It is for sure you are not going go SILENTLY!

[Shikata nai]

Abivard, on 08 January 2015 - 01:22 PM, said:

What is it with this OP and so many other CGB's with excuses, I do not recall seeing FRR units doing this when we went through 3 weeks of hard times.

You all seemed to think it was fair when you had the top merc units and the FRR had naught but small house units, in Fact many of you came to the FRR boards to gloat, trash talk and even do 'stolen valor' posts.

Or maybe it is just a faction thing, FRR are tough because we always have had it tough, clans are soft because they have always had it easy in CW?

Prove me wrong, fight don't go belly up, rage against the dying of the Clans, don't go meekly into that final darkness.

It is for sure you are not going go SILENTLY!

Never said it was fair when MS and CI rolled over FRR - to be honest i always stated that CW like this does not work, mainly because of ceasefire issues combined with NA-Units gathering in specific factions.
At this time exactly the same happened to FRR - nearly noone was playing anymore and getting planets was just stomping over PUGs or getting ghostdrops. The difference is that we try to explain now why this is happening and this should concern all of us since its just a matter of time untill the next shift towards another border.

Edited by Lachesis Muta, 08 January 2015 - 01:33 PM.

[101011]

BSK, on 07 January 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

The lore of clan mechs is that they are capable to destroy 2 to 3 IS mechs of one higher weight class in duels. As of now there is no clan mech capable to survive a duel in a circle of equals versus an IS mech of the same tonnage. A Kit Fox should be able to kill 2 IS medium mechs and still walk back to his dropship, in MWO it can' t even stand one single IS light mech.

You really need to stop with this nonsense. Are you seriously suggesting that a Timber Wolf cannot survive in a CoE against an Orion, or that a Stormcrow cannot beat a Kintaro? You want a 30 tonner to be equal to killing 2 mediums single-handedly in duels? This sounds less like a legitimate concern and more like a faux-Clan player who just wanted his easy mode. The spirit of the Clan life focuses on skill, not powerful weaponry.

[PapaN0X]

101011, on 08 January 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

You really need to stop with this nonsense. Are you seriously suggesting that a Timber Wolf cannot survive in a CoE against an Orion, or that a Stormcrow cannot beat a Kintaro? You want a 30 tonner to be equal to killing 2 mediums single-handedly in duels? This sounds less like a legitimate concern and more like a faux-Clan player who just wanted his easy mode. The spirit of the Clan life focuses on skill, not powerful weaponry.

Seyla

[Ghozzt]

While the individual mech performance capabilities do have an effect on the outcome of the individual matches in the course of a battle, they take a back seat to the amount of pilot resources a given faction can provide in the overall war. CGB as a whole, pugs and all, did not have the warrior numbers to compete with what all this past week was coming from the FRR front. I saw through multiple days that CGB was hardly able to field 1 full 12-man for most of the day, and possible a 2nd or 3rd just before ceasefire, with virtually almost no pugs to speak of. This against 60+ on the FRR front is something that cannot be stopped. CGBI in particular had a very high victory rate versus any of the other factions on various fronts, but in the end due to the mechanics of the game mode, 1 12-man could win the battle 100 times, 2-3 enemy 12-mans will win the war. No excuses here, numbers are numbers and that is how CW currently operates. As most of us know in the current mechanics, Quality means nothing in Community Warfare, Quantity is victory.

As Angel pointed out, it took no small effort to not toss our few small groups at the FRR side in hopes of successfully continuing our defense against them but we knew it would be an area unlikely of success, simply because of being vastly outnumbered during that time frame. We focused our energy where time would not be wasted, and in those areas we were entirely successful. Could we have put forth similar numbers against FRR during that time frame, things would have most certainly turned out differently. However, with all due fairness, that can also be said towards any other faction that has at one time or another been limited in the resources they could provide while being attacked. Credit where it is due, FRR has proven when given the opportunity can field an organized force as well as any other, and I look forward to when our numbers are better matching and we can fight again! I regret we were not able to give this to you, despite our strong desire to do so, after we can rally our units back to the proper strength that they exhibited in the first couple weeks, we will send this fight to you again - so be prepared my friends.
- G

[Abivard]

Ghozzt, on 08 January 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

While the individual mech performance capabilities do have an effect on the outcome of the individual matches in the course of a battle, they take a back seat to the amount of pilot resources a given faction can provide in the overall war. CGB as a whole, pugs and all, did not have the warrior numbers to compete with what all this past week was coming from the FRR front. I saw through multiple days that CGB was hardly able to field 1 full 12-man for most of the day, and possible a 2nd or 3rd just before ceasefire, with virtually almost no pugs to speak of. This against 60+ on the FRR front is something that cannot be stopped. CGBI in particular had a very high victory rate versus any of the other factions on various fronts, but in the end due to the mechanics of the game mode, 1 12-man could win the battle 100 times, 2-3 enemy 12-mans will win the war. No excuses here, numbers are numbers and that is how CW currently operates. As most of us know in the current mechanics, Quality means nothing in Community Warfare, Quantity is victory.

As Angel pointed out, it took no small effort to not toss our few small groups at the FRR side in hopes of successfully continuing our defense against them but we knew it would be an area unlikely of success, simply because of being vastly outnumbered during that time frame. We focused our energy where time would not be wasted, and in those areas we were entirely successful. Could we have put forth similar numbers against FRR during that time frame, things would have most certainly turned out differently. However, with all due fairness, that can also be said towards any other faction that has at one time or another been limited in the resources they could provide while being attacked. Credit where it is due, FRR has proven when given the opportunity can field an organized force as well as any other, and I look forward to when our numbers are better matching and we can fight again! I regret we were not able to give this to you, despite our strong desire to do so, after we can rally our units back to the proper strength that they exhibited in the first couple weeks, we will send this fight to you again - so be prepared my friends.
- G

There is a huge difference in simply not having enough players to match the enemy as opposed to not having enough players willing to fight.

[Ghozzt]

Abivard, on 08 January 2015 - 07:14 PM, said:

There is a huge difference in simply not having enough players to match the enemy as opposed to not having enough players willing to fight.

Actually, it applies the same way. The reason for not having enough people fighting for your faction does not matter. Again, in the end only the final number matters. If they are close to being balanced numerically with the opposing team then it is game on, skill against skill.

[Bregor Edain]

Abivard, on 08 January 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

In Lore they WERE genetically superior, they did not simply 'think' they were. Sure the most Exceptional of the Natural born Mech warrior elites were sometimes able to match an above average vat baby.

In addition they enjoyed a slight technical advantage in mechs, their true edge was the pilots, not the mechs.

Clan players have to bring their own piloting and gunnery skills, no one can grant them superior skills and reflexes simply by choosing clan mech over and IS mech.

It is simply not true that it was genetics. What made them good warriors was the fact that they where raised as such basically from infancy and devoted their live and society to being a warrior. There is enough proof that genetics is not what made them good/superior both in the clans and outside of them.

[BSK]

101011, on 08 January 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

You want a 30 tonner to be equal to killing 2 mediums single-handedly in duels?

You need to use your brain before you speak, your ingame skills cannot match your aggessivity here. And btw, I beat your SRM-boat Timber with my SRM-boat Centurion on Forest Colony and got the solo kill xp for that.

I was speaking about the LORE, the way this game was created as tabletop and how I played it 20 years ago. Then I showed how it is right now. Yes, in the tabletop a prime Kit Fox could single handedly kill 2 low-tech stock IS medium mechs. A clan medium could beat 2 IS heavy mechs, a clan heavy could beat 2 IS assault mechs.

Right now? Ingame? In a circle of equals there is no clan mech that could beat an upgraded IS mech of his same weight with its stock loadout. And even when you confiugre them, only a streak boat had a chance with 2 cool shots.
Mist Lynx beat a Commando? No.
Kit Fox beat a Spider? No.
Adder beat a Jenner? No.
Ice Ferret beat a Blackjack? No.
Nova beat a Centurion? No. (yes by going suicide..)
Stormcrow beat a Shawk? No.
Mad Dog beat a Dragon? No.
Hellbringer beat a Thunderbolt? No.
Summoner beat a Cataphract? No.
Timber Wolf beat an Orion with AC20 and 4SRM6? LOL, no.
Gargoyle beat any 'mech at all? A Locust with 4 MGs.
Warhawk beat a Stalker? No.
Dire Whale beat a King Crab? I have a Battlemaster with 4 LPL that takes them out frequently.

101011, on 08 January 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

The spirit of the Clan life focuses on skill, not powerful weaponry.

The scientist caste begs to differ. The Clans made no technical progress in any other technology than weaponry. And the warrior caste forced their scientists to do so, which provided ground for The Society.

[Bregor Edain]

BSK, on 09 January 2015 - 03:45 AM, said:

You need to use your brain before you speak, your ingame skills cannot match your aggessivity here. And btw, I beat your SRM-boat Timber with my SRM-boat Centurion on Forest Colony and got the solo kill xp for that.

I was speaking about the LORE, the way this game was created as tabletop and how I played it 20 years ago. Then I showed how it is right now. Yes, in the tabletop a prime Kit Fox could single handedly kill 2 low-tech stock IS medium mechs. A clan medium could beat 2 IS heavy mechs, a clan heavy could beat 2 IS assault mechs.

Right now? Ingame? In a circle of equals there is no clan mech that could beat an upgraded IS mech of his same weight with its stock loadout. And even when you confiugre them, only a streak boat had a chance with 2 cool shots.
Mist Lynx beat a Commando? No.
Kit Fox beat a Spider? No.
Adder beat a Jenner? No.
Ice Ferret beat a Blackjack? No.
Nova beat a Centurion? No. (yes by going suicide..)
Stormcrow beat a Shawk? No.
Mad Dog beat a Dragon? No.
Hellbringer beat a Thunderbolt? No.
Summoner beat a Cataphract? No.
Timber Wolf beat an Orion with AC20 and 4SRM6? LOL, no.
Gargoyle beat any 'mech at all? A Locust with 4 MGs.
Warhawk beat a Stalker? No.
Dire Whale beat a King Crab? I have a Battlemaster with 4 LPL that takes them out frequently.

You compare upgraded, fully customised IS mechs to stock versions of Clan mechs. The same could be said in reverse that IS mechs in stock loadout have no chance against Clan mechs that altered their loadout. I do not agree that a Nova in its prime configuration stands no chance against a Centurion (with all upgrades) if it managed his heat and not a single alpha strike and the same goes for a Stormcrow prime. A case can be made for other Clan mechs too, except for the Gargolye prime because that stock loadout is horrible for mech vs mech combat.

[BSK]

Bregor Edain, on 09 January 2015 - 04:08 AM, said:

You compare upgraded, fully customised IS mechs to stock versions of Clan mechs. The same could be said in reverse that IS mechs in stock loadout have no chance against Clan mechs that altered their loadout.

You found something you could argue about and didn't read the next sentence?
Here is the part that you missed:

BSK, on 09 January 2015 - 03:45 AM, said:

And even when you confiugre them, only a streak boat had a chance with 2 cool shots.

Bregor Edain, on 09 January 2015 - 04:08 AM, said:

The same could be said in reverse that IS mechs in stock loadout have no chance against Clan mechs that altered their loadout.

Which is what I said, according to the lore of tabletop ..

[Bregor Edain]

You are still wrong in stating that a stock build stands no chance vs an upgraded IS build ingame, that is not true for most cases.