49 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

Davers, on 04 January 2015 - 08:25 PM, said:

No doubt. But the MW4 leagues didn't have huge numbers of players, and it lasted for a long time. The more features that get added (such as MC rewards for holding territory, more game modes, more maps) will bring players into CW either as pugs or in units. The unit players will continue to play, and the more competitive groups we face, the more competitive we will become. We will adapt and expand with people who want competitive unit play. Maybe one day instead of a handful of 'competitive' units, there will be dozens. And CW will just be more fun for us. Which is a lot better outcome than turning CW into another pug queue. We already have one of those.

MW4 was player run. MWO is based around PGI's finances.

It's in everyone's best interest to draw in as many players as possible, and keep them playing as often as possible. Even if CW was designed for the 12 manz uber mega comp teams, that's been proven to not work. Actual good players, not even talking good TEAMS, are few and far between in MWO.

You can't suddenly take a super casual robot grind game and say, this is now hardcore. You better get good, or get out. That's what killed 8 manz and 12 manz.

[meteorol]

I'll just paste what i said in another thread:

There are not enough players to split the queue.
You know, even hardcore mode big units circlejerk is not fun when there is no one to jerk with. See the old 12man queue, which couldn't be called a ghosttown because not even ghosts were there.

The 8/12 man queue was empty, and CW group queue will be just as empty if it is forced to 12 man only.

Despite all the smack talk "we will fight all the 12 mans, never give up, we are so hardcore" alot of 12mans will quit playing CW aswell after getting their teeth kicked in by comp teams over and over and over and over and over again. There is a reason the 12man queue was empty, and it was not only the fact guys couldn't find 11 others to play with.

[BlakeAteIt]

I think that some of the fault here is on units that don't try to recruit solo/small group droppers. From a larger CW perspective, they are manpower that isn't being fully utilized.

Also, some is on these players. If you want more community, or to win more frequently in CW, try finding a team. There most certainly are casual units in all or most factions, and they're frequently looking for people. Some will even put up with you not getting a mic, if you will at least listen. Teamspeak is free. Mumble is free. C3 is free! (And, actually not bad.)

The rest is on PGI. By leaving the CW aspect of the game out for years, they have gathered a playerbase that doesn't consider it the default game mode (and really a playable product that agrees - this will probably change through 2015). Compare this to when the game was in/just out of closed beta, when the current game modes were just here "until CW comes out". At first there was no elo or any of that, because the plan was always (at least stated to be) for CW to be the driving force in the game.

To the point earlier in the thread that full teams just want to stomp pugs - I can't speak for other units, or other teams. Or really, other members of my unit. I can tell you that what I want to do is:

1) Fight other teams. Win or lose, fighting people with a plan, and some teamwork is pretty great. Fighting people with skill and no plan can be pretty fun too, because they can't be predicted.

2) Fight with other members of my faction. Sometimes, it's fun to drop with a lance or two (or solo), and see how the other players do it. Surprising what you can learn.

3) Win a planet here and there for my faction. More Green is more good, yo. Haven't done this one in a while, though...

4) Participate in the true Community Warfare. Seriously, go look at my post history. I REALLY like poking fun at the Davions.

5) GET PAID! Beeing green ain't always easy, but it pays pretty good. At least that's what the Chancellor says.

It should also be noted that some factions have TS servers set up open to anyone who wants to use them, with channels for random groups to join if they find they are in the same drop. You might try that?

[Revis Volek]

HellAvenger, on 04 January 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

Haha, I gave up arguing. You do not have to listen to suggestions, as long as PGI listen and think it through. If they do nothing, CW might just die, and all that giant maps are for nothing but for shows.

Also they might just cease adding new features into CW, because it does not earn any money.

You know what BETA means right....

I love how the sky is falling every time something comes out unpolished even after they put that 4 letter word up top which means...

Forgive us...we rushed it.

am im gonna just paste this...because he said it better then i.

meteorol, on 05 January 2015 - 12:36 AM, said:

I'll just paste what i said in another thread:

There are not enough players to split the queue.
You know, even hardcore mode big units circlejerk is not fun when there is no one to jerk with. See the old 12man queue, which couldn't be called a ghosttown because not even ghosts were there.

The 8/12 man queue was empty, and CW group queue will be just as empty if it is forced to 12 man only.

Despite all the smack talk "we will fight all the 12 mans, never give up, we are so hardcore" alot of 12mans will quit playing CW aswell after getting their teeth kicked in by comp teams over and over and over and over and over again. There is a reason the 12man queue was empty, and it was not only the fact guys couldn't find 11 others to play with.

Edited by DarthRevis, 05 January 2015 - 02:07 PM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

why don't the pugs of each faction just make super duper PUG units, no commitments, no comms needed if you have a phobia of talking to people.
just like minded casuals death balling CW with superior numbers.

[BlakeAteIt]

Isn't that what HHoD is?

[Zoid]

I'd be happy if PUGs were just set to always on defense. Beating a premade on defense is tough and probably won't happen often, but at least you get some decent C-bills out of it. Beating a premade on offense is just about impossible and incredibly demoralizing because you get virtually nothing to show for it.

[hybrid black]

HellAvenger, on 04 January 2015 - 07:47 PM, said:

current CW matchmaking is just isn't fun for both side involved. If group want to fight group, let them. I believe most serious clan already play in CW, and they should have one hell of time fighting each other.

The pug should just get a pug que, and this will improve overall experience. Most PUGs still not playing CW because of the stomp matches.

P.S. Just look at the low # of players queing for CW in general.

It has been stated a few times by the devs that cw is for groups not solo players, they just let the solo players join in, in fact it was stated that the number of unaffiliated players is dropping fast as people are joining units, given time the "solo" que will just be unit players waiting for there groups to get online or the people to stubborn to make progress.

[BlakeAteIt]

Hopefully.

[operatorZ]

hybrid black, on 05 January 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

It has been stated a few times by the devs that cw is for groups not solo players, they just let the solo players join in, in fact it was stated that the number of unaffiliated players is dropping fast as people are joining units, given time the "solo" que will just be unit players waiting for there groups to get online or the people to stubborn to make progress.

What if the people to stubborn to make progress are the majority of player base...? it has to be considered....

EDIT: Splitting que is not an option IMHO

Edited by operatorZ, 05 January 2015 - 02:47 PM.

[Lily from animove]

actualyl I doubt this helps, I mena pugging looks like this:



the game i just had a few minutes ago.

It's like the team didn't even tried. they zerg at the gates, yet aren't able to do decent damage, then some half coordinated pushes just fail because half on the way they wipe, even "fly by shots" should score more damage.

so whats the sense of pug CW? it would just be defenders win 99% of the time because attackers don't have proper coordination or a real idea what they do.

skill distribution wasn't good at all in regular matches but CW without any elo ranked MM is just so much random nonsense luck as puggers.

I really can't wait for having faction wide groups and I can go and attach mysef to some of the units it will end the wrid days of chaotic pugging.

operatorZ, on 05 January 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

What if the people to stubborn to make progress are the majority of player base...? it has to be considered....

EDIT: Splitting que is not an option IMHO

I am not sure if they are too stubborn, I guess many of them are true casuals not playing much and therefore will never being the real good gamers skillwise. That is totally ok, but its not ok, to throw these people into one pot of matches with the upper skilled gamers.

Edited by Lily from animove, 05 January 2015 - 02:52 PM.

[operatorZ]

I guess my point is...can all groups be included in CW? I think so with some creative game modes and scheduling...

1) Have the pugs PVE but have those results matter on the CW planets...not matter so much that they reverse unit and group gains necessarily...but balance some how?

2) Schedule planets just for pugs to fight over...or a certain number of zones that are only pug attack-able and defend-able?

3) Include different modes (like skirmish maybe) that are more open ended and might give more pugs a chance?

4) or...just move on with the current setup and wait for CW to fail if its going to fail over population numbers, before revising it ?


all these ideas have major problems but I think they are somewhat workable...it is beta after all...PGI should be expermenting

[Eboli]

Zoid, on 05 January 2015 - 02:24 PM, said:

I'd be happy if PUGs were just set to always on defense. Beating a premade on defense is tough and probably won't happen often, but at least you get some decent C-bills out of it. Beating a premade on offense is just about impossible and incredibly demoralizing because you get virtually nothing to show for it.

I think PUG players will only tolerate so much of the same game play or map before they get bored with the game and either don't bother playing anymore or just go back to Skirmish, Assault, Conquest. In the end it would mean that there will be less players in CW.

Just remember everyone. PGI is presenting MWO to us for profit, not kindness. If a particular aspect of the game is not drawing in a good % of the player base than they would seriously have to consider how much resources really should be spent on it.

CW needs to offer something to both PUGs and Groups/Units which will keep their interest. Yes, PGI did say that CW is aimed at Groups/Units and not solo players. They don't always get things right do they?

As much as certain players might not want to admit it CW needs player numbers (PUGS) for it to be successful. PGI needs to do something to retain player interest or else it becomes a backwater component of the game that very slowly improves on features because of limited resources put in it.

All players need to want CW to be successful for MWO to be successful.

Cheers!
Eboli

[BlakeAteIt]

Eboli, on 05 January 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

As much as certain players might not want to admit it CW needs player numbers (PUGS) for it to be successful. PGI needs to do something to retain player interest or else it becomes a backwater component of the game that very slowly improves on features because of limited resources put in it.

All players need to want CW to be successful for MWO to be successful.

Here I agree. The trick is to keep all the playstyles in one queue, so that we can all get matches quickly.

Maybe bring back the Lone Wolf/Daggerstar options, and have them be the "Whatever drops NOW" option. Then the people who don't want to join a unit (or faction) can still play CW. Might help with the ghost drop problem, too.

[AlphaToaster]

BlakeAteIt, on 05 January 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

Maybe bring back the Lone Wolf/Daggerstar options

I like this idea, bring in the wildcard faction. These factions can't hold planets on their own, but their victories attribute to the current planet attacking or defending faction where appropriate.

Allow Clan loyalists to attack any planet that a clan can attack, and defend any clan world being attacked. And the same for Lonewolf/merc corps but for the IS side of it.

Then kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Don't want to join a unit? Then you can only be a Loyalist or Lonewolf/Merc in CW.

This would consolidate the pugs for both sides Clan/IS, and actually bring more players forward to the planets being fought over.

[hybrid black]

operatorZ, on 05 January 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

What if the people to stubborn to make progress are the majority of player base...? it has to be considered....

EDIT: Splitting que is not an option IMHO

i very much agree CW can not be split, and if people do not want to move forward they will be left behind, is the idea i am getting from PGI, this game is mechwarrior history and we are making our own story, PGI is giving us the tools and we are doing what we can with them.

this is also only the first pass at CW and the first set of tools we have be given, some people are just using them better then others, and have gotten ahead of everybody else.

[operatorZ]

AlphaToaster, on 05 January 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

I like this idea, bring in the wildcard faction. These factions can't hold planets on their own, but their victories attribute to the current planet attacking or defending faction where appropriate.

Allow Clan loyalists to attack any planet that a clan can attack, and defend any clan world being attacked. And the same for Lonewolf/merc corps but for the IS side of it.

Then kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Don't want to join a unit? Then you can only be a Loyalist or Lonewolf/Merc in CW.

This would consolidate the pugs for both sides Clan/IS, and actually bring more players forward to the planets being fought over.

Best Idea yet...really like it

[Aresye]

HellAvenger, on 04 January 2015 - 09:49 PM, said:

apparently your challenge is stomping pug, bravo?

Let's just admit it, the ugly truth is that 12 men like to stomp PUGs. ego trip

All I'm saying is pugs bring their own pain. If they're willing to organize (which CAN be done), they can overcome a casual 12man team. Believe it or not, but most 12man teams aren't top tier competitive units. Problem is so many individual pugs not only don't listen, but actively avoid any attempts to organize.

[xpaladin]

Aresye, on 05 January 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

All I'm saying is pugs bring their own pain. If they're willing to organize (which CAN be done), they can overcome a casual 12man team. Believe it or not, but most 12man teams aren't top tier competitive units. Problem is so many individual pugs not only don't listen, but actively avoid any attempts to organize.

Not to mention the tools to "organize properly" aren't readily available in game. No VOIP, no faction chat, nada. It's also a little rough to subject PUG players to the scrutiny of "IF they want to organize" etc. I'm sure they do, but without the tools there's little recourse.

To get a better perspective of the problem, try imagining what you'd have to do as a new player to "become good/competitive" and think if an average person would be willing to do all those extra steps (read templates, join a big unit, go to NGNG and play 12 mans, etc).

This, I think, is the real killer.

(The "big unit" thing is a bit of a killer as well - most players don't really want to be part of some pseudo-internet-military force, opting to play the game to relax. But I digress a little.)

[Zoid]

Aresye, on 05 January 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

All I'm saying is pugs bring their own pain. If they're willing to organize (which CAN be done), they can overcome a casual 12man team. Believe it or not, but most 12man teams aren't top tier competitive units. Problem is so many individual pugs not only don't listen, but actively avoid any attempts to organize.

It's not that PUGs are opposed to being organized units, it's that most of us don't want to go through that headache. I played WoW for a couple of years and I'm not about to try herd cats in another game. I like this one because I can just hop on when I want and blow some stuff up. When that ceases to be possible, I won't play anymore.