142 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Shredhead, on 04 January 2015 - 10:30 PM, said:

Where do you have this from? They're not nerfing it.

That's your opinion. Ermahgerd there's an IS mech that can barely compete with clan mechs at range. PGI please nerf!

The Twitterverse

There is no 9SS chassis; so he either meant the old nerf of the 5SS and FS9-A, or an upcoming nerf of the 9S and another FS9.

https://twitter.com/...837197456777216

Not just compete, completely dominate. Anything bar a dual gauss Jaeger cannot compete at hillhumping at long range. You can fire 12 ERPPCs until shutdown on a single Basic'ed mech. Utterly ridiculous.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mcgral18, on 05 January 2015 - 05:34 AM, said:

The Twitterverse

There is no 9SS chassis; so he either meant the old nerf of the 5SS and FS9-A, or an upcoming nerf of the 9S and another FS9.

https://twitter.com/...837197456777216

Not just compete, completely dominate. Anything bar a dual gauss Jaeger cannot compete at hillhumping at long range. You can fire 12 ERPPCs until shutdown on a single Basic'ed mech. Utterly ridiculous.

Really? cause that IS how I used to play on TT. 30 years of never getting over 6 on the heat scale... Barring engine damage. And that was without silly Pilot perks.

[Mcgral18]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 January 2015 - 05:36 AM, said:

Really? cause that IS how I used to play on TT. 30 years of never getting over 6 on the heat scale... Barring engine damage. And that was without silly Pilot perks.

I'm not sure you were able to fire ERPPCs every 3 seconds in TT, Mr Mallan. This is better than ERPPCs were, even in the PPC stage of the game. Less heat, same cooldown, albeit almost 800M/s slower. 75% of the heat more than makes up for that.


This is a bad thing for balance; this is the reason we have ghost heat, just worse.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mcgral18, on 05 January 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

I'm not sure you were able to fire ERPPCs every 3 seconds in TT, Mr Mallan. This is better than ERPPCs were, even in the PPC stage of the game. Less heat, same cooldown, albeit almost 800M/s slower. 75% of the heat more than makes up for that.


This is a bad thing for balance; this is the reason we have ghost heat, just worse.

I didn't have to fire them every 3 seconds cause most Mechs died to concentrated fire, and even atlases died in just 3 turns (30 seconds). We have Ghost Heat cause players can't stand to be killed and whine cause they were ganged up on and killed. 3 PPCs is the painful combo in this Universe(Awesome, Schrek for example), They are supposed to make short work of the enemy when they hit. The real issue is to many players think it's not supposed to happen to THEM.

[Lily from animove]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 January 2015 - 05:51 AM, said:

I didn't have to fire them every 3 seconds cause most Mechs died to concentrated fire, and even atlases died in just 3 turns (30 seconds). We have Ghost Heat cause players can't stand to be killed and whine cause they were ganged up on and killed. 3 PPCs is the painful combo in this Universe(Awesome, Schrek for example), They are supposed to make short work of the enemy when they hit. The real issue is to many players think it's not supposed to happen to THEM.

No we have this because no one would otherwise play 80% of the mechs and only queue in with those kind of killer mechs, but how much fun or sense woulfd this make? Not much at all.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lily from animove, on 05 January 2015 - 06:50 AM, said:

No we have this because no one would otherwise play 80% of the mechs and only queue in with those kind of killer mechs, but how much fun or sense woulfd this make? Not much at all.

Hey we have strict weight limits cause player cry, we have strict 1/1/1/1 cause players cry. More than 2 of any weapons makes players cry. three of the same Mech in a match makes players cry. Nerfing things makes players cry buffing things makes players cry.

I am getting tired of all the crying involved in a game where we are supposed to be beating each other up!

[operatorZ]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 January 2015 - 05:51 AM, said:

I didn't have to fire them every 3 seconds cause most Mechs died to concentrated fire, and even atlases died in just 3 turns (30 seconds). We have Ghost Heat cause players can't stand to be killed and whine cause they were ganged up on and killed. 3 PPCs is the painful combo in this Universe(Awesome, Schrek for example), They are supposed to make short work of the enemy when they hit. The real issue is to many players think it's not supposed to happen to THEM.

if only this where true....there are plenty of unbiased voices on this matter.....even IS ones.....the 9S needs a tone down....that is all

[Lily from animove]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 January 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

Hey we have strict weight limits cause player cry, we have strict 1/1/1/1 cause players cry. More than 2 of any weapons makes players cry. three of the same Mech in a match makes players cry. Nerfing things makes players cry buffing things makes players cry.

I am getting tired of all the crying involved in a game where we are supposed to be beating each other up!

1/1/1/1 ? where is that, we don't have that and when there is no one queuing in with lights and mediums because of those killermechs, how do you enforce this?

Poeple if not crying would adapt, and that means everoyne in the same mech and the same build with the same lame gameplay. And soon you hear people cry why there are no palyers, and why the servers are down. No one wants to play a game like that, thats like CS with awp only all days.

[Illya Ghost Bear]

Aresye, on 04 January 2015 - 09:50 PM, said:

Each mech and weapon has its checks and balances. The main reason the Timberwolf is as powerful as it is, is because of broken jump jet animation and resulting HSR issues. I am 99% certain that if PGI simply fixed the TBR's jump jet animation, the mech would go from, "Crazy OP timber-tank," to a nice, "Sort of OP, best clan mech," category, which is where it should be in relation to the Clan mechs released thus far.

The problem with the Thunderbolt is that the normal balancing factor for PPCs (that is: heat), is no longer a factor. There's no reason "not" to take a 9S. Hop over to the Clan side and there's at least a few couple reasons "not" to take a Timberwolf.

even my non jumping TWs break 1000 with alarming regularity. I have more 1000+ matches in TWs than all my other mechs combined. And I rarely run the S torsos.

One thing about it is the relative agility compared to all it's other advantages is still very good, but the also the rear hitboxes are very very borked.

The only "weakness" a TW has is it really doesn't boat anything but lasers well, and it's a mediocre ballistics platform. But since Clan ballistics suck aside from gauss? Not a big deal.

[Wildstreak]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 04 January 2015 - 10:34 PM, said:

Other chassies and variants are as much broken as the ppc thunder. Why exclusevly talk about erppc thunder? just why?

It brings back days similar to the alpha problems such as the Hex Stalker and when 2PPC + 2 AC5 were king.
I ran the Thunderbolt-9S with 2 PPC & 4ML before there were quirks, I knew then how strong it was and heat generation is very similar. Shoulder mounts so you do not have to expose much of the Mech render arguments about 'easy to hit' invalid. It was better than when I ran 2 PPC on the Awesome-8Q and I scared people with that despite not being the best sniper in the game. I scared people with the Thunderblunder using just 2 PPCs in the same way, one hit and enemies MOVED back under cover no matter what Mech they drove. When something has the ability to scare people, it is strong. Give it quirks to make that stronger, that's OP.

Psycological effect of just 2 PPC hits is strong and gives the shooter great control over the battlefield that no Mech should have.

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 04 January 2015 - 10:58 PM, said:

Guess you missed half of the arguing..

Why eclusively QQ about the ppc thunder when other chassies /mechs are as good as it but differently?Why not talk about all the other crazyly quirked mechs? why not talk about the timber?

List the other crazy quirks. The Timber, depending on pods, has torso turn buffs and nerfs, arm buffs, JJ buffs on the S and Missile cooldwon nerfs. The Timber is not a god.

I will consider anything with a 50% quirk 'crazy.' What other IS Mechs have 50% quirks ignoring speed buffs like the Locust Acceleration & Deceleration quirks, those are in no way OP.

Locust-1V ERLL cooldown 50%
Huginn SRM4 cooldown 50%
Cicada-3C ERPPC heat 50%
Grid Iron MPL range 50%
Grid Iron Gauss cooldown 50%
Hunchback-4J LRM10 cooldown 50%
Wolverine-6K LPL range 50%
Dragon-1N AC5 cooldown 50%
Thunderbolt-5SS MPL range 50%
Pretty Baby LL cooldown 50%
Hellslinger external heat transfer 50%

Lots of cooldown & range buffs here that are not a big thing, Hellslinger does not seem a big one, only the Cicada is equal and it does not matter with only 1 Energy point to mount a ERPPC on hence no OP Cicada comments. There are even a couple of Vindicators with 40% PPC velocity quirks, no one complains.

The Thunderblunder is because it can mount more than 2 ERPPCs with a 50% ERPPC heat reduction, 25% ERPPC cooldown for more firings and 15% ERPPC speed buff. If a non-expert sniper like me can scare the crap out of anyone with only 2 PPC before quirks, then yes the quirked 3ERPPC is too good. Honestly, I don't believe you even need 3, just the 2 in the shoulder mount, that is another quirk being able to peek and shoulder snipe without exposing much of the Mech invalidating the Mech size comments.

It gets even more unpleasant when I once fought against an 8 man in CW, I thought it was a good fight but they cried that every IS player should be bringing Thunderblunders. I never was a meta fan in any game and I do not appreciate being ordered to play by a certain style because of a broken quirked Mech.

Brody319, on 04 January 2015 - 11:38 PM, said:

Who would have guessed people would have talked about nerfing the 9S in threads labelled "Thunderbolt needs a nerf" "the thunderbolt 9S" "Nerf the 9S". I just thought they were talking about the Urbanmech

UrbanMech was always considered OP after Bishop Steiner threatened to make 12 man hit squads of Urbies rekt-ing B33f teams.

[topgun505]

Sad to say MWO has been like this since closed beta and it has gotten worse since then in this regard. A 100 ton Atlas or a DW can utterly melt in just a few seconds. It definitely does NOT capture the feeling of massive-armored mechanized units. And keep in mind this is with DOUBLE the armor that we should have!

You can nerf or buff all you want but until the root cause is addressed (instant perfect convergence), absolutely nothing will change.

Monkey Lover, on 04 January 2015 - 10:20 PM, said:

Im with you Miser D, I can core a Dire or atlas in a few seconds in almost every mech I own.

How can the biggest and baddest mechs die in seconds? Is almost like they have no armor at all.

[Lily from animove]

topgun505, on 05 January 2015 - 08:24 AM, said:

Sad to say MWO has been like this since closed beta and it has gotten worse since then in this regard. A 100 ton Atlas or a DW can utterly melt in just a few seconds. It definitely does NOT capture the feeling of massive-armored mechanized units. And keep in mind this is with DOUBLE the armor that we should have!

You can nerf or buff all you want but until the root cause is addressed (instant perfect convergence), absolutely nothing will change.

but convergence is not the solution because in a multiplayer client serversided game convergence that way will juts horribly fail by the way the technical architecture is. They could however make a "cone of fire" for all weapons to simulate TT inaccuracies. But then with the way how the game work,s lights would be even more untouchable.

[hercules1981]

Monkey Lover, on 04 January 2015 - 09:50 PM, said:

Im at the point i thinking PGI is making mechs op so people buy them . Then come back and nerf them for a new OP mech to buy.

Dude hit the nail on the head with that one perfect.People can't be that stupid( meaning PGI making way OP mechs and think they will be OK) , they just can't be that stupid. It is all a strategic move for there wallet and that's it. I believe in it 100% and for that reason alone never buy stuff when there is a huge rant about aaaawwww it will be soooo good I let others buy it and I read about it or talk on TS with my team then maybe I'll buy it after a pass from PGI came back through.

Edited by hercules1981, 05 January 2015 - 11:58 AM.

[operatorZ]

hercules1981, on 05 January 2015 - 11:56 AM, said:

Dude hit the nail on the head with that one perfect.People can't be that stupid( meaning PGI making way OP mechs and think they will be OK) , they just can't be that stupid. It is all a strategic move for there wallet and that's it. I believe in it 100% and for that reason alone never buy stuff when there is a huge rant about aaaawwww it will be soooo good I let others buy it and I read about it or talk on TS with my team then maybe I'll buy it after a pass from PGI came back through.

This is valid thought...I have seen this with other games....

However, the nature of releasing content into the reality of puglandia and CW creates circumstances where things become OP when not viewed that way in testing....however, if they did they're job right this wouldn't happen...which leads too...are they just using this as a $$ grab scheme? idk...but it works

half the people complaining about incoming nerfs are pissed because they paid good money to get and elite the quirked TDR...now that's being toned down...guess I would be upset too

[Apnu]

Aresye, on 04 January 2015 - 09:50 PM, said:

Each mech and weapon has its checks and balances. The main reason the Timberwolf is as powerful as it is, is because of broken jump jet animation and resulting HSR issues. I am 99% certain that if PGI simply fixed the TBR's jump jet animation, the mech would go from, "Crazy OP timber-tank," to a nice, "Sort of OP, best clan mech," category, which is where it should be in relation to the Clan mechs released thus far.

The problem with the Thunderbolt is that the normal balancing factor for PPCs (that is: heat), is no longer a factor. There's no reason "not" to take a 9S. Hop over to the Clan side and there's at least a few couple reasons "not" to take a Timberwolf.

TBRs also have a geometry advantage. The great clan triumvirate (DWF, TBR, SCR) all have the same conical-ish geometry. Like the Catapult, they benefit greatly from that. Versus, say, the Atlas, or other broad-like-barn mechs (AWS). Its just how the models turn out and the size and locations of the hitboxes.

My point is, those cone torso mechs all, naturally, spread damage across the torso, regardless of pilot skill. Trapazoid torsos shaped mechs (TDR, WVR, and famously CN9) do a descent job of of spreading damage, but the pilot has to be involved a bit more. At least that's true for me, an average Elo player.

Clans enjoy another advantage over IS. Weight class. Their best mechs also happen to be the heaviest, most armed and armored mechs for that class. DWF? 100 tons. TBR? 75 tons. SCR? 55 tons. IS counter parts aren't as heavy, say the CTF or JM6, both underweight to a TBR. Even a loss of 5 tons between the CTF and the TBR, is a lot of potential armor points the TBR has over the CTF, more so over a JM6 or CPLT.

Add all that and then your JJ/HSR point, results in a perfect storm of elite-ness for the TBR in particular.

Its no wonder all the uber-comps sprint to clans. I know PGI wanted to avoid an "arms race" but they've found themselves in the same boat of other MW titles -- clan tech is better than IS tech. No amount of long burn times, bursting ACs or trickle LRMs will fix that. Same too for fixed engines, sure you can't swap a clan engine, but if you drop a torso, you're still in the game. For most IS mechs to get anywhere near a clan mech of the same weight's alpha potential, they have to run a risky 3 crit XL engine.

My point is, clans are OP, but that's not totally PGI's fault. Its baked into the game because we inherit the TT imbalances. Its for that reason I am (probably on an island about this) an advocate for 10v12 and want to see the clans incentivized to be underweight in matches (through c-bill bonsuses, which they sorely need).

[That Token Canadian Guy]

operatorZ, on 05 January 2015 - 12:26 PM, said:

This is valid thought...I have seen this with other games....

However, the nature of releasing content into the reality of puglandia and CW creates circumstances where things become OP when not viewed that way in testing....however, if they did they're job right this wouldn't happen...which leads too...are they just using this as a $$ grab scheme? idk...but it works

half the people complaining about incoming nerfs are pissed because they paid good money to get and elite the quirked TDR...now that's being toned down...guess I would be upset too

I'm pissed because the clanners want to once again unbalance the game in their favor!!! They cry and cry some more because they can not out due the all mighty PPC? So cry and hope PGI nerfs it to make YOuR life easier rather then trying to find a counter........Lame sauce!!!

Edited by daxiazun, 05 January 2015 - 03:30 PM.

[Mcgral18]

daxiazun, on 05 January 2015 - 03:27 PM, said:

I'm pissed because the clanners want to once again unbalance the game in their favor!!! They cry and cry some more because they can not out due the all might PPC? So cry and hope PGI nerfs it to make YOuR life easier rather then trying to find a counter........Lame sauce!!!

Which explains why, without any modules (including coolshots or arties) in a mech with only basics, it's let me get 900 damage in half my matches?


There's a line where quirks become good, or simply ridiculous. This mech crossed it.

Russ has tweeted it's getting nerfed, and that's a good thing.

[Variant1]

Ya screw balance man im with ya!

in all seriousness we shouldn't stop nerfing things, it keeps the game balanced. When people complain about a certain thing in a game that generally means something is wrong with and needs to be cahnged, sometimes for the better or worse.PPC needs to be reworked, that velocity needs to be toned down and the heat generaton changed. The heat should take 2 seconds to build up that way spam is stoped for good. Right now ppc are very easy to use, pop out and pop back in and the heat is a joke not to mention they outclass the ac10 in so many ways.

Flaming oblivion, on 05 January 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

Here at the facts:
Lrms are extremely underpowered vs other weapon systems far to many counters rely on a decent team , Will flat out lose to any other system barring mg's in LoS unless the other pilots bad.
You either have to buff lrms severely , Or flat out nerf pinpoint damage.
Its that simple.

On the contrary lrms are quite op, they can shoot over terrain which makes them very easy to spam, therefore OP. Also those counters were made because of how ridonculous lrmaggedon was not to mention now those counter have counter so its just counter-warfare. Lrms too need a rework not a buff.

[That Token Canadian Guy]

Mcgral18, on 05 January 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

Which explains why, without any modules (including coolshots or arties) in a mech with only basics, it's let me get 900 damage in half my matches?


There's a line where quirks become good, or simply ridiculous. This mech crossed it.

Russ has tweeted it's getting nerfed, and that's a good thing.

Well you must be talking about clan mechs in pug drops. The 9s is not viable in normal drops unless you wish to hide back and let your team take all the damage.
Against actual groups the 9s is not what you want to run. You would be foolish to do so if you do not have proper back up!!!
Plus to top it off you are spotting a clan tag ...... So it is in your best interest to have a viable mech nerfed. Enough said!

[Mcgral18]

daxiazun, on 05 January 2015 - 03:42 PM, said:

Well you must be talking about clan mechs in pug drops. The 9s is not viable in normal drops unless you wish to hide back and let your team take all the damage.
Against actual groups the 9s is not what you want to run. You would be foolish to do so if you do not have proper back up!!!
Plus to top it off you are spotting a clan tag ...... So it is in your best interest to have a viable mech nerfed. Enough said!

Like hell.

You just don't want to lose your easy mode; because that's what the 9S is at the moment. Without any elite efficiencies, it performs better than most mastered Clan mechs, by the way.

7.5 heat ERPPCs. ERMLs are 6 heat for reference. It's easy mode to play in the PUG life. I have yet to even use a Coolshot.