21 replies to this topic

[Axeface]

Hello,
It's my opinion that vision modes should be mech modules, the modes are very powerful and I think limiting them will actaully add some depth to player choice.

Also, I spend 90% of my time in this game in heat vision, in almost all medium-to-long range situations it is incredibly powerful for instant target recognition, at least for me. And at short range we have seismic which is already a module.
This change would 'allow' me to enjoy the games visuals more as I would spend less time in the modes on certain mechs.

Also, modules to mask your mech from them?


Thoughts?

PS: The grind in this game is already WAY too slow, so they shouldnt cost more than 1 mill. Oh, and the shaders always mess up with the vision modes, please fix.

Edited by Axeface, 05 January 2015 - 07:00 AM.

[Rhaythe]

That would make several maps, like Frozen City Day and River City Night, unplayable by new players.

[Axeface]

Rhaythe, on 05 January 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

That would make several maps, like Frozen City Day and River City Night, unplayable by new players.

Ah, that is a good point.

EDIT: Maybe trials could come pre-equipped with the module.

Edited by Axeface, 05 January 2015 - 07:07 AM.

[TercieI]

Absent map selection, no... Right now, you usually have to plan for all maps. That leaves enough gambling, the idea of double-or-nothinging that by having to guess whether to bring vision modules...ugh. No thanks.

[Madcap72]

Rhaythe, on 05 January 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

That would make several maps, like Frozen City Day and River City Night, unplayable by new players.

The same players trapped using outdated champion trial mechs?

[FupDup]

Madcap72, on 05 January 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

The same players trapped using outdated champion trial mechs?

The fire's already burning, but we don't need to add any more fuel to it...

[Summon3r]

NO!

[darkkterror]

Who would equip a vision mode module on the off chance that they might drop into one of the very few maps where vision modules are even useful?

[MeiSooHaityu]

I would just like to see the old Predator heat vision back. Better night vision too while we are at it.

So you can snipe better at really long ranges, what damage is a long range weapon like a gauss going to do at extreme range?? 2 damage?

With ballistics reduced from 3 time optimal range to 2 times like energy, slow PPC travel times (other than quirked mechs), and Gauss Rifles having charge times and not being as common (unless your a Direwhale) due to the weapon being as stable as nitro glycerin...let me catch my breath.... Isn't it time we bring the old heat vision back? At least try it again for a bit?

[1453 R]

The game is predicated on the alternate vision modes being standard equipment in one's 'Mech. Frozen Blizzard, RCN, and a few other maps are built to very nearly require an alternate vision mode.

Now, if you want to talk about Enhanced alternate vision modes as 'Mech modules, that's an idea worth pursuing. Hitbox Vision (a colored overlay on enemy 'Mechs showing their hitboxes and the armor state of those hitboxes, sorta-kinna like MW2's old Enhanced Imaging system) was something I'd always thought could've been a useful way for targeting computers to actually assist in targeting. Something like that as a module, or something like the old Predator Vision heat mode, might be an interesting idea for new modules, but they would have to be in addition to the standard alternate vision modes, not replacements for them.

[kapusta11]

Haha, vision modes are OP, nerf them! Right?

[FupDup]

1453 R, on 05 January 2015 - 09:05 AM, said:

Now, if you want to talk about Enhanced alternate vision modes as 'Mech modules, that's an idea worth pursuing. Hitbox Vision (a colored overlay on enemy 'Mechs showing their hitboxes and the armor state of those hitboxes, sorta-kinna like MW2's old Enhanced Imaging system) was something I'd always thought could've been a useful way for targeting computers to actually assist in targeting. Something like that as a module, or something like the old Predator Vision heat mode, might be an interesting idea for new modules, but they would have to be in addition to the standard alternate vision modes, not replacements for them.

That module should totally be released alongside a Nicolai Malthus hero Thor, because reasons. Sort of like how the Grid Iron limited edition came with the cheerleader statue.

Edited by FupDup, 05 January 2015 - 09:10 AM.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

According to the Tech manuals and Lore,
- every Mech comes equipped with numerous sensors as standard items.
(Thermal and Night vision are standard equipment on all Mech's)
- There are even sensors that we do not yet have in the game.
(LIDAR for one, which is a laser radar and very effective at locating moving targets, and mapping terrain.)
~ the basic Mech also uses this same shorter range system for navigation and collision avoidance.

The advanced specialized chassis, dedicated to certain roles, have built in systems that do not need to be classed as 'modules', they are standard components for that Mech and it's role.
- Even the optics zoom is a normal item on all Mech's, but the 'Advanced' or 'Extended' zoom is equipped on chassis as part of the weapons system.
(equip a certain weapon and it also includes the advanced or extended view, linked to the targeting system.)

So, no, to these being 'add-on' elements.

Additional note here:
Any comparison to the MWO thermal mode and actual FLIR is way off in what it should be able to see and how far.
- IRL a FLIR with a 19mm lens can detect a 2.3m target at 880m (recognition 230m/ id at 110m)
- 35mm lens @ 1.6km (rec @ 400m/ id @ 200m)
- 50mm lens @ 2.2km (rec @ 580m/ id @ 290m)
- 100mm lens (4 inch's) @ 4.4km (rec @ 1.1km/ id @ 580m)

Considering the size and heat generated by BattleMechs and what the optics should be sized for, we should be able to 'see' (detect) these objects for well over a Km or two. But PGI reduced that distance as on earlier testing it was found that long range weapons could or were shooting across the entire map.

- For in-game heat mode to work correctly, it requires the artists and engineers to select each object and build a separate plate model that displays only the initial indicated heat range colour. As the object changes profile or heat surfaces change they need additional coding to show these modifications from the start settings.
- And that's for every object we see on a map, from the terrain, buildings, heat absorbing/reflecting materials, Mech parts and assemblies, locations of weapons impact and effects, environmental changes and conditions.
(basically everything that's already been presented needs a new surface that reacts dynamically with game changes.)
- To be done correctly it means redesigning the entire colour plates for everything, and if there is any future addition of rapid temperature changes this needs to be considered and possibly coded also.
(what we have now is a very basic mode, only global settings for the environment and highlighting of the Mech's. Much more required to look like it's functional.)
- But all that extra data now needing to be sent both ways may be why we only have the basic views enabled.

Aim True and Run Cool,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 06 January 2015 - 01:52 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

The enhanced imaging like MW2 might be interesting as an addition to the Command Console or clan targeting computer.

A color coated overlay on a mech showing damage.

Balancing factors:
*Needs Command Console or Clan Targeting Computer.

*Requires hard lock to acquire data (damage overlay to form) and even then it takes longer than the standard enemy weapon load out to appear in the upper right.

*Lastly, it makes you visible to the enemy (Red Dorritto) at any range. Direct LOS isn't necessary. ECM may reduce the detectable range of a mech with Enhanced Imaging active, but not eliminate it.

Since a mech using Enhanced Imaging is trying to gather more detailed information on the enemy, its active scans give away the mechs position (but only when the vision is actively engaged).

Maybe doable?

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I'd be fine with this for the vision modes.



And I imagine that those smaller maps should eventually get replaced anyway, otherwise I wouldn't mind running around with spot lights that we can turn on and off for those maps!

[Mechteric]

We don't get to pick our maps, so no.

I also think advanced zoom shouldn't even be its own module and should be built in

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 05 January 2015 - 10:08 AM.

[Axeface]

I didnt really think it through very much, the concerns that have been raised are very valid. I still think there is a lot of room for improvement and depth with vision modes. Also like I said, as for me heat vision is a no brainer in all but 1 situation (and even in that situation I use it a lot for pick out distant mechs under ecm) I'm tired of looking at the game in black n white.
The only issue I find with heat vision is terra therma at close range, or when trying to be extra accurate like when going for a heatshot on a shut-down mech, even then I know the mechs layouts so I usually dont have to drop the mode.

Night vision on the other hand I find completely useless, heat vision is always superior for me.

darkkterror, on 05 January 2015 - 08:54 AM, said:

Who would equip a vision mode module on the off chance that they might drop into one of the very few maps where vision modules are even useful?

Like I said above, I find uses for heat vision on almost all maps. The only one where I never use any mode is Alpine because the visibility is actualyl good, unlike most maps.

Edited by Axeface, 05 January 2015 - 10:33 AM.

[Brody319]

No, we don't need more **** to grind for.

[Rando Slim]

I would amend the OP's idea just a little and say that improved versions of existing vision modes should be available as modules. I also use heat vision a lot, but I find its useless for targets past about 500-600 meters. A more powerful thermal imaging system that lets you see mechs in this mode out to a whole kilometer would be cool.

Edited by Scrotacus 42, 05 January 2015 - 01:03 PM.

[CygnusX7]

No but please add Predator Heat Vision module. I'll pay 3mil for that.
Thanks!