233 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Nightshade24, on 07 January 2015 - 12:09 AM, said:

give it a week.

Right now: Clans complaining they can't open the gates, IS keep snipping them to pieces.
Later on: Clans complaining noobs try to open the gates. They want it closed so the deffenders cant zerg rush them.
Further on: Clans complaining thunderbolts are jumping over the wall and zerg rushing the clans.

You laugh but that is almost *exactly* what's going to happen.

[Karl Streiger]

Abivard, on 07 January 2015 - 12:12 AM, said:

You clannners stop taking stormcrows and we will not take thunderbolts anymore.

meh - nope

really still complaints about the TDR-9S? Seriously? That thing was capable even before the quirks - the quirks maybe give the option for a third ERPPC (not the best choice because of the location) or you can fire on or 2 shots more often. Thats it.
Nothing that turn this Mech from crap to ueber. No the problem is simple that in public games - the ammo depended Mechs in the heavy Mech bracket are the better choice - but in CW - ammo is a problem for some. (but i don't understand why this should be a problem - ammo have to stay a problem - remove this edge and the Thunderbolts will become forgotten again.

So yes Ammo drops - and i hope i will never see them in CW and its JaegerTime

[Von Blumen]

I say keep the Thunderbolt where it is. The mech adds some challenge to the game. Personally I also feel the clan weapons should be brought back to their original load out as well. Weapons should rarely nerfed...mech armor and internals should be buffed. Make ferro armor worth the internal slots it takes up.

I want to feel like I am in a walking death machine that can take punishment as well as dish it out.

No more nerfs....buff the mechs...

Edited by Von Blumen, 07 January 2015 - 01:22 AM.

[Will HellFire]

I am not the most suportive of overpowered perks like TDR's or the DRG's, but its easy to see without them the IS would be at a definite disadvantage against the Clans...

...which seems to be the way clanners want it. And it really sucks that there's people who openly say "I want unfair advantages over you, or I wont play!" which is mostly what Im hearing from the clanners.

And still I hear no mention about Clan XL engines. And I think THAT is an unfair advantage.

...as well as the 20% tonnage advantage every Clan ballistic weapon has over Is ballistics...
....or the 50% tonnage advantage on Missile Launcher weights....
...what, these dont count clanners?

[Lily from animove]

Klappspaten, on 06 January 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

I mean really, we even made a post in the clan wolf forums and they flat out told us that they would not defend against us.

If thats the case that is low indeed.

because defending was horrible wait time for just a single match for some reason, while going to the jade parriot border gave instant matches.

So one issue of CW is that the population currently is a bit low on all factions, and when i go online I see 3 planets (if that much) where soemthing is happeneing. Then I can see at the numbers of the planet if I gonna wait 40+ minutes to get a match or not.

But seriously, If I want to play MWO this means playing, not staying and waiting in the queue. Then I either go another factions planet where queue times are to be expected better, or to public matches.

and during the week, when I may have 2 or 3 hours of gaming after job + family, I really want to do a bit more than just one or maybe 2 matches.

Will HellFire, on 07 January 2015 - 02:10 AM, said:

I am not the most suportive of overpowered perks like TDR's or the DRG's, but its easy to see without them the IS would be at a definite disadvantage against the Clans...

...which seems to be the way clanners want it. And it really sucks that there's people who openly say "I want unfair advantages over you, or I wont play!" which is mostly what Im hearing from the clanners.

And still I hear no mention about Clan XL engines. And I think THAT is an unfair advantage.

...as well as the 20% tonnage advantage every Clan ballistic weapon has over Is ballistics...
....or the 50% tonnage advantage on Missile Launcher weights....
...what, these dont count clanners?

Clans have to use XL, its different but not an advantage, clans can not use a standrd engine, or a smaller one.
missile launchers? what serious pilot is using them? at least at lrm's this is an advantage no one uses. also most clanner launchers add very big hotboxes, while a lot IS mechs have them better intrgretaed in the mech. being a easy target is a bad thing. Then Clan lrms are lurms, meanign they are just bad compared to the IS volley, because ams cna take out more, or you can very easily dodge a lot of the incoming missile stream of a lrm 10+ launcher. So the advantage only applies on the srm's.
The ballistics, well, NO lol, I bet nearly any clanenr would prever the heavier IS ballistics in their clanmechs when they can get the same PPFLD, streamign AC's is just not worth the weight savings.

further more why is everyone mostly ignoring the IS advanatges? Most emchs have better geometry at the IS, better hardpoint locations. Those are way better advantages. But somehow the IS is more trying to tell what clanners are better in, instead of seeking what their own strenghts are.

So no what you list is mostly not fair and objective in judgement, you list advanatges but not the entire truth of things.

Half of the IS pilots just don't seem to be able to identify their strenghts and use them.

But hey the lords have went IS now, maybe they figure it out and all the other will copy this, because for some reason hardly anyone is willing to test and figure out on his own.

Edited by Lily from animove, 07 January 2015 - 02:31 AM.

[Klappspaten]

You guys should stop talking about the mechs, they´re fine. Its the players that suck.

[H I A S]

@Clanners: Stop the whine about the Balance.

@Klappspaten : I wrote the reasons why you find no competition in german subforum.

[AlexEss]

So in essence the simple solution is to reduce the number of active planets to funnel people in to a more effective que and then expand the number of planets if needed be.

I also find the fact that clanners are complaining about OP mechs a good thing... It indicates that we are closing in on some kind of balance between factions.

Edited by AlexEss, 07 January 2015 - 04:32 AM.

[Nightshade24]

Karl Streiger, on 07 January 2015 - 12:22 AM, said:

meh - nope

really still complaints about the TDR-9S? Seriously? That thing was capable even before the quirks - the quirks maybe give the option for a third ERPPC (not the best choice because of the location) or you can fire on or 2 shots more often. Thats it.
Nothing that turn this Mech from crap to ueber. No the problem is simple that in public games - the ammo depended Mechs in the heavy Mech bracket are the better choice - but in CW - ammo is a problem for some. (but i don't understand why this should be a problem - ammo have to stay a problem - remove this edge and the Thunderbolts will become forgotten again.

So yes Ammo drops - and i hope i will never see them in CW and its JaegerTime

I support this , I ran a 3 PPC, 2 med pulse, 2 med laser Thunderbolt 5SS before any quirks came into the game and I worked wounders on it. I liked the Thunderbolt before it was cool.

Von Blumen, on 07 January 2015 - 01:07 AM, said:

I say keep the Thunderbolt where it is. The mech adds some challenge to the game. Personally I also feel the clan weapons should be brought back to their original load out as well. Weapons should rarely nerfed...mech armor and internals should be buffed. Make ferro armor worth the internal slots it takes up.

I want to feel like I am in a walking death machine that can take punishment as well as dish it out.

No more nerfs....buff the mechs...

I disagree, not only it out peforms the Clanners in the role of a ER PPC boat (compared to the adder, hellbringer, warhawk, direwolf) but it also out peforms the Inner sphere PPC / ER PPC boats. (catapult K2, banshee, firebrand, battlemaster, even the awesome!), these mechs deserve a good ppc quirk more so then the Thunderbolt.

Having a 65 ton mech out peform a 85 tonner in every way isn't a good idea to promote the awesome...

Will HellFire, on 07 January 2015 - 02:10 AM, said:

I am not the most suportive of overpowered perks like TDR's or the DRG's, but its easy to see without them the IS would be at a definite disadvantage against the Clans...

...which seems to be the way clanners want it. And it really sucks that there's people who openly say "I want unfair advantages over you, or I wont play!" which is mostly what Im hearing from the clanners.

And still I hear no mention about Clan XL engines. And I think THAT is an unfair advantage.

...as well as the 20% tonnage advantage every Clan ballistic weapon has over Is ballistics...
....or the 50% tonnage advantage on Missile Launcher weights....
...what, these dont count clanners?

The IS mechs beyond the Thunderbolt can handle clans fine. The hunchback, shadowhawk, locust, raven, firestarter, banshee, kingcrab, stalker, cataphract, jagermech, other thunderbolt variants, just to name a few mechs. are quite good in CW. Clans do not want to ROLFstomp the IS. we just do not like the BS of 1 thunderbolt = 3 warhawks or the fact our Heavies are running builds that a IS medium could pull off.

Klappspaten, on 07 January 2015 - 03:10 AM, said:

You guys should stop talking about the mechs, they´re fine. Its the players that suck.

Okay, so you have no objections to the summoner getting identical quirks to the ER PPC's and stuff like the thunderbolt 9S?

It's not op, it's just the enemies suck.

[Mr Beefy]

W A R L O R D, on 06 January 2015 - 10:51 PM, said:

That's my point Mr. Beefy...I would say no, because I want to win the match. That's why they bring the Thunderbolt, because they want to win the match. But it's ridiculous to say that no planets will be lost even if the Thunderbolt gets nerfed to oblivion...INner Sphere is winning now because most of their drop decks include a very specific mech AND on top of that you have some excellent players piloting them. How well will IS do when the merc units like QQ, etc... leave the faction and PGI turns the Tbolt into a smoldering pile of worthlessness? Only time will tell.

This is my point, and you just said it right there.... No, you will take what ever mech you want. Even with the quirks on Erppc's the Tbolt is not OP. Hopefully PGI will not listen to the nerf bat crowd, just like they didn't listen to the nerf bat crowd on the Timbers or stormcrows. I want to see good mechs in the game, mechs that can stand out and shine in different roles. Bringing any of the mechs players have a choice to bring does not ensure that they will win the match, therefor, no nerfs are needed. You and others might want them, but they are not needed for the sake of "Balance".

The ppc's can be countered just like any other weapon system, just like any mech can be countered with skill, a little bit of luck, and using the terrain around you effectively. It really is that simple, Nerfing things into the ground or always changing them to suit players expectations just because they find it hard to counter is a mistake on PGI's part, IMO. It cause's them to chase their tales just to please players that can not be pleased. As soon as they nerf one thing, some will complain about the next mech or weapon used by players that are winning. Team work and skill and luck lead to winning, not OP mechs or weapons systems. Learn to adapt and counter, build skills to confront anything thrown at you and your team, that is what makes a game fun.

I can just hear the Allies in WWII crying that the Germans heavy Machine guns in a fortified trench was to OP as it was being rushed.... wait, pause, this isn't any fun, that gun needs a nerf! It's firing rate is way to high, its range to far, and they can replace out the barrel when it starts to overheat in a matter of seconds, its not fair, bla bla bla.... it needs a nerf! Seems rather silly, No? Stop with all the crying about the Tbolts and nerfing this and that....and put some big boy pants on and figure out a way to take things out that scare you.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 07 January 2015 - 08:16 AM.

[Mr Beefy]

Karl Streiger, on 07 January 2015 - 12:22 AM, said:

meh - nope

really still complaints about the TDR-9S? Seriously? That thing was capable even before the quirks - the quirks maybe give the option for a third ERPPC (not the best choice because of the location) or you can fire on or 2 shots more often. Thats it.
Nothing that turn this Mech from crap to ueber. No the problem is simple that in public games - the ammo depended Mechs in the heavy Mech bracket are the better choice - but in CW - ammo is a problem for some. (but i don't understand why this should be a problem - ammo have to stay a problem - remove this edge and the Thunderbolts will become forgotten again.

So yes Ammo drops - and i hope i will never see them in CW and its JaegerTime

I agree with the reasoning not to take the third ERppc, location is crap as it has to be mounted low. I like to keep my Erppc's high mounted. This is one reason I broke down and bought the Firebrand while it was on sale. I was running my Jager S with 3 ultra AC/5's and 225 rounds of ammo, one med laser in my drop deck. I can make it work with the ammo, but it can be a issue.

There are so many things PGI could do with CW....and planets. We could have mech factories that we have to raid and blow up/take out mech production in them. We could have spread out objectives and targets(notice I said targets, not target) in order to break things up, keep both sides guessing as to where the next attack will come from. Bigger maps will be needed, and it's funny, when I pictured CW, I pictured huge cities, tall buildings, brawling, many targets, several objectives per map and having them spread out to allow different tactics to be used and tried to complete the mission and take the planet. I also pictured ways to cripple our enemies supply lines, and slow them down.

I know we are still in beta with it and all, but some real work needs to be done to enhance these ideas, or we will always be focused on the little picture, like nerfing and balance. Many issues could work themselves out if PGI designs many maps, with in depth and real missions/objectives to take out, and ways to use different tactics to do it. This is really what is killing CW atm.... IMO, not OP mechs, or OP weapons.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 07 January 2015 - 08:11 AM.

[Mr Beefy]

Nightshade24, on 07 January 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

I support this , I ran a 3 PPC, 2 med pulse, 2 med laser Thunderbolt 5SS before any quirks came into the game and I worked wounders on it. I liked the Thunderbolt before it was cool.


I disagree, not only it out peforms the Clanners in the role of a ER PPC boat (compared to the adder, hellbringer, warhawk, direwolf) but it also out peforms the Inner sphere PPC / ER PPC boats. (catapult K2, banshee, firebrand, battlemaster, even the awesome!), these mechs deserve a good ppc quirk more so then the Thunderbolt.

Having a 65 ton mech out peform a 85 tonner in every way isn't a good idea to promote the awesome...


The IS mechs beyond the Thunderbolt can handle clans fine. The hunchback, shadowhawk, locust, raven, firestarter, banshee, kingcrab, stalker, cataphract, jagermech, other thunderbolt variants, just to name a few mechs. are quite good in CW. Clans do not want to ROLFstomp the IS. we just do not like the BS of 1 thunderbolt = 3 warhawks or the fact our Heavies are running builds that a IS medium could pull off.


Okay, so you have no objections to the summoner getting identical quirks to the ER PPC's and stuff like the thunderbolt 9S?

It's not op, it's just the enemies suck.

If that is what PGI feels the suckner needs to be a contender in the game, NO, I don't have a issue with it getting the same or similar quirks as the Thunderbolt 9S. Rock on guys, and bring your big boy pants to the battle!

[Dagorlad13]

Von Blumen, on 07 January 2015 - 01:07 AM, said:

I say keep the Thunderbolt where it is. The mech adds some challenge to the game. Personally I also feel the clan weapons should be brought back to their original load out as well. Weapons should rarely nerfed...mech armor and internals should be buffed. Make ferro armor worth the internal slots it takes up.

I want to feel like I am in a walking death machine that can take punishment as well as dish it out.

No more nerfs....buff the mechs...

Yes, make the Clan ERPPC do 15 points of pinpoint damage like it is supposed to and make the Clan LBX s toggle and the Clan AC s to fire single slugs like they are supposed to and then there would be no problem.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

@Iron claw: Then Clan would bee realy OP. Sorry that would bee too much.

[Revis Volek]

Mr Beefy, on 07 January 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:

I agree with the reasoning not to take the third ERppc, location is crap as it has to be mounted low. I like to keep my Erppc's high mounted. This is one reason I broke down and bought the Firebrand while it was on sale. I was running my Jager S with 3 ultra AC/5's and 225 rounds of ammo, one med laser in my drop deck. I can make it work with the ammo, but it can be a issue.

There are so many things PGI could do with CW....and planets. We could have mech factories that we have to raid and blow up/take out mech production in them. We could have spread out objectives and targets(notice I said targets, not target) in order to break things up, keep both sides guessing as to where the next attack will come from. Bigger maps will be needed, and it's funny, when I pictured CW, I pictured huge cities, tall buildings, brawling, many targets, several objectives per map and having them spread out to allow different tactics to be used and tried to complete the mission and take the planet. I also pictured ways to cripple our enemies supply lines, and slow them down.

I know we are still in beta with it and all, but some real work needs to be done to enhance these ideas, or we will always be focused on the little picture, like nerfing and balance. Many issues could work themselves out if PGI designs many maps, with in depth and real missions/objectives to take out, and ways to use different tactics to do it. This is really what is killing CW atm.... IMO, not OP mechs, or OP weapons.

i completly agree....its boring because they made a boring game mode with some silly objectives and a few more things to shoot at. WHOOPY!

We need much larger maps....im talking 3-4 times as large. Alpine would be a small CW map.

We need more dynamic roles, Other things to blow up. Supply lines to shut down....

Move the Gens for the Gates. No one in there right mind would put the Gen for a Gate right by the front door knowing if you lost power the door opens right up. Why dont we just blow the door open? Give the door the HP of the GEN and lets blow it to hell.

Have NPC mechs stand guard at the Spawn point need some security outside of turrets. We need NPC Dragons and Timbers guarding us as we drop in and we should drop in on the ridge above on sulfurous and a small alcove in the back behind Omega on Boreal. This way defenders are not dropping in right on your head in 30 seconds when you kill them at the front door. Also would allow for a spawn camp on the defender side id the team gets pushed back that far.

If not NPC mechs give us some Aerofighters to guard the Landing zones.

But map design....i see we are struggling once again with a decent map design. I dont want more Funnel of death maps i dont know why PGI cant see it but all of there maps are basically the same. It is just funnels into areas where they want us to brawl. Why not make MULTIPLE areas for brawling, multiple ways to enter the base (not just 2 or 3 doors on the same side) like underground supply tunnel we can exploit and send light mechs through. Or maybe a River city style CW map with a large cityscape that take 5-7 minutes just to get through in order to make it to the base....then we could have checkpoints. As we gain territory or pass a checkpoint this is now where you ship will drop you instead of the main drop. Same can go for the attackers....if they steal checkpoints back from the attackers then they get the closes drops and can fortify there front quiker.

It just seems like there are so many other ways to improve this, i hope this isn't the final dream they had in mind. It needs a lot of work i am having fun now but it could be so much better.

Edited by DarthRevis, 07 January 2015 - 09:10 AM.

[Klappspaten]

DarthRevis, on 07 January 2015 - 09:09 AM, said:

i completly agree....its boring because they made a boring game mode with some silly objectives and a few more things to shoot at. WHOOPY!

We need much larger maps....im talking 3-4 times as large. Alpine would be a small CW map.

We need more dynamic roles, Other things to blow up. Supply lines to shut down....

Move the Gens for the Gates. No one in there right mind would put the Gen for a Gate right by the front door knowing if you lost power the door opens right up. Why dont we just blow the door open? Give the door the HP of the GEN and lets blow it to hell.

Have NPC mechs stand guard at the Spawn point need some security outside of turrets. We need NPC Dragons and Timbers guarding us as we drop in and we should drop in on the ridge above on sulfurous and a small alcove in the back behind Omega on Boreal. This way defenders are not dropping in right on your head in 30 seconds when you kill them at the front door. Also would allow for a spawn camp on the defender side id the team gets pushed back that far.

If not NPC mechs give us some Aerofighters to guard the Landing zones.

But map design....i see we are struggling once again with a decent map design. I dont want more Funnel of death maps i dont know why PGI cant see it but all of there maps are basically the same. It is just funnels into areas where they want us to brawl. Why not make MULTIPLE areas for brawling, multiple ways to enter the base (not just 2 or 3 doors on the same side) like underground supply tunnel we can exploit and send light mechs through. Or maybe a River city style CW map with a large cityscape that take 5-7 minutes just to get through in order to make it to the base....then we could have checkpoints. As we gain territory or pass a checkpoint this is now where you ship will drop you instead of the main drop. Same can go for the attackers....if they steal checkpoints back from the attackers then they get the closes drops and can fortify there front quiker.

It just seems like there are so many other ways to improve this, i hope this isn't the final dream they had in mind. It needs a lot of work i am having fun now but it could be so much better.

this, absoluetly

[Dagorlad13]

Marc von der Heide, on 07 January 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

@Iron claw: Then Clan would bee realy OP. Sorry that would bee too much.

Not at all, Warhawk fires two ERPPCs doing 30 pinpoint damage and does not overheat, Thunderbolt fires three ERPPCs for 30 damage and does not overheat. Yes, the IS mech needs to use more crit spaces and tons, but the Clan ERPPCs run much hotter and are not be able to fire as often, this is pretty balanced if you ask me. The only thing that I agree should be left alone are the Clan LRMs, because if those did full damage at short range like they do in TT it would be a game breaker.

[Osis]

Hail,

Seems silly on Defense to be using drop ships, if you eject you should have a MechBay that you jump into your Mech at (heavily defended).

Seyla,

[Revis Volek]

Osis, on 07 January 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

Hail,

Seems silly on Defense to be using drop ships, if you eject you should have a MechBay that you jump into your Mech at (heavily defended).

Seyla,

Even better....have us come up from mech bays that are under ground or in a building....defender dont need drop ships we are already on the base.

[Dagorlad13]

CW would be more fun if the drop points could be captured and the original owner could not get reinforcements until they took it back. Also, if the drop point was farther away from Omega for the defender, it would lead to more interesting strategies.