28 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

When the Clan Pack was released, there was only 2 of 3 mechs that had caught my attention (1 of which, I do not plan on driving soon). While I didn't think too much about Clan mechs in detail until the Kitfox was made available for C-bills, I had been plotting getting the C-bills to buy the Stormcrow and the other mech (which will be posted last in the series) in the unholy/holy trinity of mechs.

At that time, I felt that Clans were not OP, but mostly people that were complaining about stuff. I think that served me well (not having a losing mentality - you play what you have access to). After having gotten the mechs, I have since then change my stance in that the Clan mechs that are actually better than the rest need actual attention in the form of nerfs, whereas the "poor Clan mechs" honestly do need buffs... and lumping them together when balancing weapons is a poor way of addressing it. It's probably easy to filter out those that blindly defend things... out of those that don't objectively compare stuff. I guess it's a good thing that I never talk to or PM the man who should never be named...

Anyways, the Stormcrow is an enigma, and while there is very little diversity in "laservomit" (excessive use of lasers in a build... as the Hunchback-4P used to be the first until Ghost Heat), they all serve the same weaknesses regardless of which good or bad Clan mechs you are facing. Most builds are very unsustainable after 2 alphas, and require at least another 5-10 seconds before they can fire just 3 CERMEDs. Give them 15-20 seconds alone, and they'll be ready to fire 1 full spill of laservomit. Aggressively pushing mechs that push 50% in heat in one shot is the ONLY CORRECT COUNTER as hiding only serves to help them out.

With most of that said, the Stormcrow is notably just heat dependent and will always be a staple in any force. While lacking in JJs, its build diversity is limited, yet perfect due to hardpoint locations and to a lesser extent hitboxes. It's the kind of mech that almost always puts Kitfoxes and Adders to shame due to its natural speed when tonnage is not a consideration.

I'll break this down into three sections for people to digest this properly...

1) Omnipods - Spread the wealth
2) Field Report - The Good, The Bad, and the "Why Not Nova"
3) The Future - Don't Need to Poop on the Nova and "Too Much of a Good Thing"

1) Omnipods - "Lasers on their freaking heads"

It's a rare moment where I have to mention that the head of the mech is actually pretty important (like the Kitfox-S's legs). The Stormcrow-Prime has a head laser. While it comes with a penalty (Armor Strength -10%), maxing out the head armor isn't a bad idea to compensate. On the other hand, I don't remember getting headshotted there, so it should be a non-issue for the most part. This is very critical as you want a weapon available regardless of a missing torso. However, the head laser mount is actually low, as I believe it is mounted very much like a Catapult (Jester) with the 2E CT points (just take a look at it, and the cockpit looks rather similar for some reason). Of course, it's limited to an Clan ER Large Laser, which isn't too shabby, compared to the IS options. While the quirk didn't dissuade me much, but it is curious what PGI did with another mech (which is in my holy trinity of mechs) when it came to "balancing" that.

So, let's talk about the main sections yes?

Left Arm:
Stormcrow-Prime 2E
Stormcrow-C 1B, +7.5% arm movement pitch+yaw
Stormcrow-D 1M, +7.5% arm movement pitch+yaw

The Prime is where you get all the energy arms that you're ever need. There are possible arm omnipods in future that would increase that number quite a bit, but then you would be drawing too much attention to yourself.

The C's omnipod is the only source of ballistic you have access to. While this implies MGs are not really a good option (I mean, do you really want MGs in a high DPS mech?), you'll have to commit to a decent ballistic. Unlike the Nova, you are very likely to have the tonnage if you are loading up on CERMEDs anyways.

The D is where you get all the missiles you'll ever want or need. The great thing about that option is that you combine it with the head's energy, you'll be able to use TAG or some decent backup weapon when you're out of ammo.

Right Arm:
Stormcrow-Prime 2E
Stormcrow-C, 1E, +7.5% arm movement pitch+yaw
Stormcrow-D, 1M, +7.5% arm movement pitch+yaw

While the C does not remain symmetrical, you are offered an option to increase arm movement. This is not entirely useful, but if you don't need the 2nd Energy hardpoint, this is a nice bonus. Otherwise, there's not much to see here.

Left Torso:
Stormcrow-Prime +10% torso twist
Stormcrow-C, 1E, +5% torso twist
Stormcrow-D, 2M

The Left Torso is where most of the firepower comes from when you see a Stormcrow missile boat of some sort. If anything, it works just as well when there's a ballistic since that is on the left arm. The torsos fire the weapons from a very high position, and are arguably the most important mainstay of any build.

Right Torso:
Stormcrow-Prime 1AMS
Stormcrow-C 1E
Stormcrow-D 1M

While the D is not symmetrical, it's still valuable unless you decide to use the right side as the shield. The only source of AMS is the Prime...

The combinations are endless, but most aim for a 6E based build (with 2M if you wanted to) though 7E is the max. Missile boats will probably utilize all 5M, with the head E... and if you're seeing a ballistic build, it's going to have at most 5E to go with it. So... how does it fair on the field? I think people by now already know....


2) Field Report - "If I could only use JJs" and "Darn that Tweety Bird"

In some ways, I'm trying not to imagine one of those frozen chickens or turkies and just using them as a reference because that's kinda what it is.

Unlike most of the mechs the weapon hardpoints on the arms are "inside" the "wings" of the mech, which prevents the expansion of the arm hitboxes (at least, not by much with the missile racks). This kinda indirectly allows the arms to be used as shields... which isn't always ideal if you are using ballistics, but are really nice for shielding the sides if the Stormcrow isn't facing you. If you really want to be aiming at something, just aim for the torsos... and if you're any good, you can actually hit the CT-cockpit area (it really does use some of the Catapult's cockpit section if you look close enough IMO).

When it comes to firing, what you see is generally what you get as the cockpit is low enough to the arms, so obstructions are minimized.

The legs aren't hard to fire at, but they kinda remind me of the Raven's, but not in the same way. They are smaller compared to the rest of the 55 tonners in the same range... which may indirectly cause some frustrations when making any direct comparisons. No 55 tonner can really compare directly anyways as the best loadouts require the use of IS XL engines which trades off a lot more than the Clan XL counterparts... While people may be capable of minimizing the IS XL effect, the firepower can be close to a Stormcrow but in different aspects...

Kintaro (18, GB) - has more backup energy options (Stormcrow is limited to 1E when going 5M, it can be 3E when going 4M... and 5E when going 3M) - LRM5 spam is still effective

Shadowhawk (5M, 2H) - has better directfire (usually PPC+2AC5) that the Stormcrow cannot aspire to

Wolverine (6K, 7K) - while having a gimmicky arm, the 6K with mass LPL wub, it's more heat efficient, 7K can achieve more speed (although, most will stick to a 325XL or so) while brawling with 3 meds + 3 ASRM6s

Griffin (3M) - JJ capable missile boat (the Shadowhawk could do it, but w/o Artemis) is still remarkably useful

While these 55 tonners have their deficiencies, they do serve a niche in some form that the Stormcrow in its current state cannot accomplish.


3) The Future aka "PGI, Why Do You Hate the Nova?" and... Suggestions (unfortunately, nerf is the word)

There's only 2 omnipods worth mentioning as they are in the data... both of which seem to serve making the Nova obsolete...

Stormcrow-A Left Arm 4E
Stormcrow-B Right Arm 6E

I don't think I need to say much although something like this resembles the Gargoyle. Go figure on what the people who did TT was smoking. In any case, this would inevitably make the Nova useless unless the Nova gets buffed... speaking of buffs...

The thing the Nova needs as I've said before (in a separate thread/post) is to really buff it. When you initially see the Stormcrow's CT, they ALL have a 15% torso twist buff ONTOP of having an already large engine (330XL)... while the Nova gets screwed on that (with a base of 5% if you get the Nova-S's CT, 10% on the other Novas). Why is the Nova not getting a 15% torso twist base is beyond me.... which leads me to 3 suggestions the Stormcrow needs to properly balance out a bit.

1) Nerf the CT torso twist bonus speed... from 15%... to 10%, or even 5%. It probably should be 10%, because in the following suggestion, we honestly need to "restructure" the quirks similar to a lot of the Wave 2 mechs, due to the "value" of a torso weapon.

2) Restructuring the Side Torso+Head bonuses is required.
The current torso twist RADIUS is 130 on the Stormcrow. This is pretty damn generous for a mech this versatile. It needs a natural reduction to 110 and as low as 105. To get back to this magical number of 130... we would have to restructure the torsos+head, so this is fundamentally how I'd do this...

Head:
Stormcrow-Prime - -10% head armor resistance (unchanged)
Stomcrow-C or D - +10 torso yaw, +10% torso twist speed

Left Torso:
Stormcrow-Prime - +10 torso yaw, +10% torso twist speed
Stormcrow-C - +5 torso yaw, +5% torso twist speed
Stormcrow-D - none

Right Torso
Stormcrow-Prime - +5 torso yaw (this is the AMS hardpoint)
Stormcrow-C or D - none

I could probably revise it (the balance seems OK from a glance), but that's just a preliminary opinion on the matter.

3) This is actually NOT a nerf, but an indirect buff...
Allow engines in the CT to hold DHS capacity that is not normally made available. However, all locked DHS in the engine cannot be removed.

This is an important change/buff as this affects this mech and the Ice Ferret... as when the XL engine side nerf was added (it should get an additional speed reduction IMO, but that's not the discussion), it changes how effective DHS operates. Given that mechs like the Summoner, Timberwolf, AND even the Gargoyle have a decent number of DHS added by design, ideally the concentration of DHS should be in the CT rather than the side torso as when a side gets lost, you lose all the DHS on that side. The CT is there to "bail you out".

While this could be an argument to "balance" the Stormcrow, it hurts the Ice Ferret as losing a side while it "should" be able to hold another 2 DHS (assuming, you are going on a majorly hot mech like a 4CERMED or even a future 5 CERMED build with more omnipods), the side torso loss rule a lot more punitive in this circumstance. While I don't have a complete list of mechs that suffer from it (I'm going with what we have right now), it should be a consideration for future omnipod rule changes. The Ice Ferret does need some help, and honestly I should have posted this idea there, but this is mech that could benefit from this (it would only be able to fit 3 extra DHS by design if it weren't locked).

While the Stormcrow does a lot of awesomeness, some of the quirks and current set of rules probably put it "over the top", and by adjusting the torso twist bonuses and torso twist radius would greatly help balance the mech out w/o making it the glorious injustice that it is not. By using the strengths of the IS mechs, you can negate some of the benefits the Stormcrow enjoys. It is not quite the boogeyman that another mech happens to be (to be posted in the finale), but if you understand its weaknesses, it is just another mech to beat...

Thinking that the Stormcrow (or X mech for that matter) is the best thing since sliced bread is the first rule in finding excuses to lose. It needs some nerfing, but like hot running mech... it can't keep firing indefinitely if you aggressively push the mech. Passiveness feeds into "clan lore" and all weak pilots get crushed when unresponsive to the challenge.

[Mcgral18]

For those curious about the SCR-NOVA:



It will be a sad day.

[MechWarrior9376871]

I stopped mounting 6 lasers on both TWs and SCRs. They run too hot. 2LPLs and a chassis filled to the brim with DHS and a couple of backup ERMls for when you know you can cool down. Much more effective than the supposed meta laser vomit builds the "experts" swear by. I make sure I maximize heat sinks over lasers on every clan build.

[Mechteric]

I started out using all lasers on my prime, but of course found it too hot for my liking. At first I did 4-5 ER Medium with 2 ER Large, but later went to 3 ER Large with only 2 ER medium since it ran cooler and had better ranged ability.

But still too hot using all lasers, so now my prime runs 4 ER medium with 2 ALRM15 as my missile skirmisher, while my other missile variant sticks with 5 SRMs. The ballistic variant runs gauss with mediums.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 07 January 2015 - 05:29 PM.

[Kiiyor]

I just love it for it's diversity. Laser vomit is all well and good, but I still love the combination of MLAS and SRM's.

While it does indeed tend to run hot, it isn't always as much of an issue if you play the DoomCrow to it's strengths, and run it as a striker - use that insane speed and maneuverability, hit hard, get to cover, relocate.

Too many people try and use it as stand-off DPS (which it can do well at) but that is a role that the MadCat totally outclasses it in.

[Ultimax]

Honestly, I think the Storm Crow is fine.

We have a medium mech that is top tier, that's a good thing.

A lot of the "it's OP" is usually comes from people still trying to target it's STs - you remove it's legs, and it goes down easy.



That's also how you deal with other relatively fast mechs or mechs with "unique" geometry like all light mechs, or "may or may not have STD" engine Centurions and Griffins.



I've seen complaints that "it's too fast", which is nonsense. It has a 330xl, it paid the tonnage for it.

If you put an engine that big in your Shadowhawk or Griffin, they get to be that fast too.


Usually it's mostly light pilots who complain about it's speed.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 07 January 2015 - 06:04 PM.

[Ultimax]

Also, if you're going to be writing these guides you should be saving them to your own blog, or google docs so you don't lose them (you could also then link them in your sig which will help them remain relevant longer).


And you should also have mechporn.

[Brody319]

I hate the Stormcrow, not fighting it but piloting. just find it boring.

[Wintersdark]

Light pilots complaining about its speed and the likely 3-5ssrm4-6's. Mind you,that build is wholly useless against anything over 50 tons, but whatever.

Deathlike touches on the key Anti-Lazorcrow tactic: push. Stormcrows almost always end up relying heavily on cERML's, and they are quite hot. My Wubverine eats them for breakfast by exploiting that - get in their face and stay there, don't play peek-and-shoot (which, incidentally, is a good rule of thumb when fighting any clan mechs except direwolves.)

But cowardice/timidity/habit ignore the IS's strength: heat efficiency. Let the clan mechs cool and trade lesuirely alphas, and they walk all over you.

[Wintersdark]

Brody319, on 07 January 2015 - 06:14 PM, said:

I hate the Stormcrow, not fighting it but piloting. just find it boring.

I love mine - it depends on how you kit them out IMHO - but I'm definitely sick ofbthem now.

With that said, they do lack character. I don't know if that's because they're so flexible or just because I've spent so much time in them.

[Tristan Winter]

Deathlike, IMO the lack of formatting is really killing this series of threads. I'm sure the content is good, but it's hard to attack such a huge fountain of text with no extra formatting that lets you get an overview and skim through certain parts. Just FYI.

[Andi Nagasia]

the nova will still have a place i think,
why? because as a supposed Teir3-4-5 mech it will get a good amount of quirks,
assuming Nova gets -20% or -30% head generation, which i feel would help allot,
so with that the 13E SCR(assuming arms get +10% Energy Duration, Per-Arm),
would actually be balanced to the Nova, to the SCR,
of course assuming the Nova gets cooling quirks,

Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 07 January 2015 - 10:27 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Wish I'd read this properly the first time!

I'd argue vehemently against any form of nerf for the Crow. IMHO, competitive mediums are something we should embrace with open arms, tears, and offers of free board and lodging, with the possibility of an introduction to our extremely hot son/daughter, as well as free ammo reloads and quality coolant flushes.

With the quirks, many 'Sphere mechs have moved to a position where they may not necessarily compete with the Crow for viability, but are at least jockeying for position and rattling the foundations of the mountain of skulls it's perched upon.

[Ultimax]

Kiiyor, on 07 January 2015 - 08:55 PM, said:

Wish I'd read this properly the first time!

I'd argue vehemently against any form of nerf for the Crow. IMHO, competitive mediums are something we should embrace with open arms, tears, and offers of free board and lodging, with the possibility of an introduction to our extremely hot son/daughter, as well as free ammo reloads and quality coolant flushes.

With the quirks, many 'Sphere mechs have moved to a position where they may not necessarily compete with the Crow for viability, but are at least jockeying for position and rattling the foundations of the mountain of skulls it's perched upon.

Agreed.

The SCR does not need nerfs.




While they may not be as optimal for CW, due to the nature of the maps and style of gameplay - in the basic queues plenty of quirked IS mediums will give a Stormcrow a run for it's money depending on the build of each.

[Deathlike]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 07 January 2015 - 07:15 PM, said:

Deathlike, IMO the lack of formatting is really killing this series of threads. I'm sure the content is good, but it's hard to attack such a huge fountain of text with no extra formatting that lets you get an overview and skim through certain parts. Just FYI.

I can't really improve that much outside of more spacing. I've tried to minimize the "wall o' text" with paragraphs, but the thing that eats my post up tends to be accidentally CLOSING the post that I attempt to write. So, I deal with minimal formatting such as bold, size, and italics. That's it.

Kiiyor, on 07 January 2015 - 08:55 PM, said:

Wish I'd read this properly the first time!

I'd argue vehemently against any form of nerf for the Crow. IMHO, competitive mediums are something we should embrace with open arms, tears, and offers of free board and lodging, with the possibility of an introduction to our extremely hot son/daughter, as well as free ammo reloads and quality coolant flushes.

With the quirks, many 'Sphere mechs have moved to a position where they may not necessarily compete with the Crow for viability, but are at least jockeying for position and rattling the foundations of the mountain of skulls it's perched upon.

TBH, while I have examples of 55 tonners that can do something, it says a bit that they are still flawed (Kintaro is just easy to hit comparatively speaking and still needs buffs I believe). I'm convinced those (Kintaros) need structure buffs across the board. I'm sure other mechs need that too.

That still doesn't explain why the Griffin is the oddball with only 10% torso twisting compared to every other 55 ton IS mech getting 25%.

Ultimatum X, on 07 January 2015 - 09:01 PM, said:

Agreed.

The SCR does not need nerfs.




While they may not be as optimal for CW, due to the nature of the maps and style of gameplay - in the basic queues plenty of quirked IS mediums will give a Stormcrow a run for it's money depending on the build of each.

It needs some nerfs... it's either that or the IS 55 tonners needs more buffs. ALSO, the 50 ton Nova needs a BOATLOAD of buffs. The Nova is not even something I'd consider using unless those Clan buffs/quirks are coming.

Edit:
I would like to point out (stuff that I forgot to cover and mention)... that heat and DPS sustainability is far more important thans strict DPS. When you push, you don't want to ever overheat in midcombat (obviously, you're likely going to die sooner rather than later when you overheat often). Despite having 20 or more DHS, you realize that you need to have more heat discipline and a little bit of "build discipline".

For instance.. you could put the 5th Medium Laser in the common 2LPL + 4ML build for the Timberwolf... and it's great for laservomit. It's terrible for actual playable uptime for that mech. I mean, you can terrorize virtually every mech with that build and kill them quickly, but you'll likely to overheat and be extraordinarily vulnerable when you are challenged. Sometimes adding the extra laser for more damage is more detrimental to you than it is to the enemy.

Edited by Deathlike, 07 January 2015 - 09:55 PM.

[Metus regem]

Brody319, on 07 January 2015 - 06:14 PM, said:

I hate the Stormcrow, not fighting it but piloting. just find it boring.

I sware I got mine from the Hells Horses.... Those three mechs just do not work with me.

[Brody319]

Metus regem, on 07 January 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

I sware I got mine from the Hells Horses.... Those three mechs just do not work with me.

I use the best loadouts and play them exactly how others play them but I don't feel like I am doing very well and they are pretty dull. I prefer IS mediums just for their unique feel. though I'm going to be grinding up that sweet sweet Maddog soon so I gotta save up.

[Kiiyor]

Deathlike, on 07 January 2015 - 09:47 PM, said:

Edit:
I would like to point out (stuff that I forgot to cover and mention)... that heat and DPS sustainability is far more important thans strict DPS. When you push, you don't want to ever overheat in midcombat (obviously, you're likely going to die sooner rather than later when you overheat often). Despite having 20 or more DHS, you realize that you need to have more heat discipline and a little bit of "build discipline".

It depends on the style of fight, IMHO.

The Clans are ideally suited to long range standoffs here, as the ability to seek cover and cool between magnificent huge alpha strikes is a perfect playstyle for them (barring a few outliers, like the MadCat which can sustain an infuriating level of DPS in pretty much any build). If Clan mechs can hold the IS at range, or force a peek-off, they usually dominate (PPC-Bolt be damned!)

Cooler quirked 'Sphere mechs are great if everyone commits to a rush and sustained brawl, but the 'Sphere forces still run the risk of taking a huge amount of damage at the beginning of a fight, and being less viable for continued brawling. In my experience, CLG affects the 'Sphere more than the Clans, when many IS mechs resort to XL engines to bring enough gun to Clan fights - though if a Sphere force can stay intact, and get close enough to force a melee, they seem to have a decent advantage.

It almost balances out, and I love the fact that each faction has a unique flavour in this regard.

[Ultimax]

Deathlike, on 07 January 2015 - 09:47 PM, said:

That still doesn't explain why the Griffin is the oddball with only 10% torso twisting compared to every other 55 ton IS mech getting 25%.

That's not enough of the picture.

The Griffin is an amazingly maneuverable mech with fantastic hitboxes. With a large engine, it's like the Spider's 55T cousin.

Deathlike, on 07 January 2015 - 09:47 PM, said:

It needs some nerfs... it's either that or the IS 55 tonners needs more buffs. ALSO, the 50 ton Nova needs a BOATLOAD of buffs. The Nova is not even something I'd consider using unless those Clan buffs/quirks are coming.

Some IS 55 tonners were bizarrely skipped over, because PGI did not accurately judge where Shadowhawks were at the time.

The other issue is that while yes, you could bring 2x 55 tonners and 2x 65 Tonners, it's a better deal to bring 3x 65 Tonners + 1 x35 Tonner. Or hell, lose some tonnage and just do 65x2 + 35x2.

It was a popular, top performing mech. But it's still a medium mech, with many medium mech woes.


The Nova needing buffs has zero to do with the Storm Crow.

You don't punt the smart kid at school in the head, just because some other kid sucks at math.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 07 January 2015 - 10:25 PM.

[STEF_]

For my playstyle, SCR fits me very very well.
I love it.
But, for my playstyle as well, my laser vomit doesn't have all dat lazors that comp. built has: 2LPL and 4 erml, instead of 5, and 1 DHS more.
So with 44% cooling eff. it's really a no brain built, a to go clan medium.

For those who love to lurm: it's the perfect boat, due to its perfect mobility for this role and the good number of tubes it can have.

Want to go close? What do you think of getting close using is wonderful speed, and release a good quantity of srm, or lbx20 in the back + variegated lasers?

I can understand who says it's boring. Because perfection can be.