653 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

[SaltBeef]

He must be a KIng........

How can you Tell?

He doesn't have sh!t all over him!!




Come and see the VIOLENCE inherent in system.....

Edited by SaltBeef, 28 January 2015 - 11:56 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

endo for some mechs may not seem like much of a benefit,
but assuming we get both, Unlocked Endo Structure for all Omni-mechs with out it,
as well as Unlocked JJ(CAP-MLX/Flamer-ADR), (another Topic)

-the Over Lapping-
=Summoner=
Endo= +3.5Tons JJ= +5Tons(+5CritSpace),
+8.5Tons more(no JJ&Endo only Costs 2CritSpace),
with this a SMN would have 31Tons free and only lose 2CritSpace,
Summoner Base(assuming no JJ & Upgraded to Endo & Stock Armor),


=Nova=
Endo= +2.5Tons JJ= +2.5Tons(+5CritSpace),
+5Tons more(no JJ&Endo only Costs 2CritSpace),
with this a NVA would have 21Tons free and only lose 2CritSpace,
Nova Base(assuming no JJ & Upgraded to Endo & Stock Armor),

please Play with these and see what you can make,
im sure you'll be happy with the many possibilities,
just remember to leave 2 CritSpace for Endo,

[Wrathful Scythe]

A Summoner with 31 tons of free space would go from the worst to the best clan-heavy, instantly. Just because you can fit dual Gauss, ammo and ERMLs in it. Or try a 4 C-LPL build, but that might run pretty hot. Only 17 heatsinks.
For the Nova.... more DHS's are always good, can't have enough of these.

Would love to have those options but I think we will only get more quirks which won't change much, because "Clan OP"

[Lily from animove]

Andi Nagasia, on 29 January 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

endo for some mechs may not seem like much of a benefit,
but assuming we get both, Unlocked Endo Structure for all Omni-mechs with out it,
as well as Unlocked JJ(CAP-MLX/Flamer-ADR), (another Topic)

-the Over Lapping-
=Summoner=
Endo= +3.5Tons JJ= +5Tons(+5CritSpace),
+8.5Tons more(no JJ&Endo only Costs 2CritSpace),
with this a SMN would have 31Tons free and only lose 2CritSpace,
Summoner Base(assuming no JJ & Upgraded to Endo & Stock Armor),


=Nova=
Endo= +2.5Tons JJ= +2.5Tons(+5CritSpace),
+5Tons more(no JJ&Endo only Costs 2CritSpace),
with this a NVA would have 21Tons free and only lose 2CritSpace,
Nova Base(assuming no JJ & Upgraded to Endo & Stock Armor),

please Play with these and see what you can make,
im sure you'll be happy with the many possibilities,
just remember to leave 2 CritSpace for Endo,

Issue of the Nova is its a heavy-assault sized mech with medcore speed for a medium but mediums squishiness. No matter how you distribute podspace crits and god knows what, you will still be a two Alpha obliteration for a skilled mechwarrior on the other side. And so those things do not help at all, the only thing this will do, may make ballistic builds more appealing because you now have tonnage for a qell sized UAC + ammo and backuplasers. but with the clan UAC's being rather badly spreadweapons, not even this is a real option.

[Andi Nagasia]

Lily from animove, on 29 January 2015 - 06:43 AM, said:

Issue of the Nova is its a heavy-assault sized mech with medcore speed for a medium but mediums squishiness. No matter how you distribute podspace crits and god knows what, you will still be a two Alpha obliteration for a skilled mechwarrior on the other side. And so those things do not help at all, the only thing this will do, may make ballistic builds more appealing because you now have tonnage for a qell sized UAC + ammo and backuplasers. but with the clan UAC's being rather badly spreadweapons, not even this is a real option.

very true, i cant really say much about my nova, personally i love them,
but im also A Locust Pilot, used to play Troll-cust(125XL DHS-Endo 1ML 1AC5(90shots),
so i guess im used to how quick they can die, so i work to position my self with cover,

[Deathlike]

I saw a Nova the other day that went major ballistics (5B max).

It didn't end well with it.

[Mcgral18]

Deathlike, on 29 January 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

I saw a Nova the other day that went major ballistics (5B max).

It didn't end well with it.

I used to like 5 MGs; but then 5% less heat happened. 1 MG, or 5% heat? It wasn't a tough choice.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 29 January 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

I used to like 5 MGs; but then 5% less heat happened. 1 MG, or 5% heat? It wasn't a tough choice.

At least it's not 15% ballistic heat reduction...

[CrushLibs]

Unlock Endo

Unlock engine sizes with a -5 or +10 range (ie 300XL base 275-350XL range) with some exceptions like the TW that has a 375XL and is plenty fast and give it a TOP engine size of say 385XL.

This would people to drop some weight and also add speed. Adding speed would lower AMMO , DHS and or weapons.

But would be nice for Clan to have something to combat the Jenners , 3L , FireStarters and Spiders besides a totally weapons nerfed medium or a puma that can only go a pissy 97 / 107 kph.

[Andi Nagasia]

CrushLibs, on 29 January 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

Unlock Endo

Unlock engine sizes with a -5 or +10 range (ie 300XL base 275-350XL range) with some exceptions like the TW that has a 375XL and is plenty fast and give it a TOP engine size of say 385XL.

This would people to drop some weight and also add speed. Adding speed would lower AMMO , DHS and or weapons.

But would be nice for Clan to have something to combat the Jenners , 3L , FireStarters and Spiders besides a totally weapons nerfed medium or a puma that can only go a pissy 97 / 107 kph.

dont really agree with the engine unlocks as i feel its a Clan Balancing factors and against Omni rules,
and though i feel it could help out some, i fear that doing so will lead to the SCR/TBR/DWF being boosted,
(i dont see this being a much of a problem with balanced coding, But IS QQ would be Filling the Forums),
Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 30 January 2015 - 09:55 PM.

[Anakha]

Definitely agree with Bishop here. I don't understand how PGI rationalizes handicapping only certain clan mechs by limiting our ability to upgrade to Endo Steel on them. EVERY IS mech can upgrade to it and the clan mechs that have ES already are clearly the best clan mechs because of the extra tonnage it allows them. Allowing the other clan mechs that do not have ES currently would not make them any better than the current clan mechs that do have it so i don't see how it would effect the overall balance at all. What it would do would allow clan players much more diversity in their chose of mech from a competitive and game enjoyment standpoint as there would now be more competitive clan mechs to choose from. I am sure everyone would like to see more diversity among clan players than just the holy trinity mechs currently used by most clan players. Allowing us to upgrade the clan mechs that don't have ES to do this would definitely help promote this.

[Bishop Steiner]

Anakha, on 06 February 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

Definitely agree with Bishop here. I don't understand how PGI rationalizes handicapping only certain clan mechs by limiting our ability to upgrade to Endo Steel on them. EVERY IS mech can upgrade to it and the clan mechs that have ES already are clearly the best clan mechs because of the extra tonnage it allows them. Allowing the other clan mechs that do not have ES currently would not make them any better than the current clan mechs that do have it so i don't see how it would effect the overall balance at all. What it would do would allow clan players much more diversity in their chose of mech from a competitive and game enjoyment standpoint as there would now be more competitive clan mechs to choose from. I am sure everyone would like to see more diversity among clan players than just the holy trinity mechs currently used by most clan players. Allowing us to upgrade the clan mechs that don't have ES to do this would definitely help promote this.

thanks. I do hope PGI really does give this strong consideration.

[Andi Nagasia]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 February 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

thanks. I do hope PGI really does give this strong consideration.

personally i still feel that perhaps this isnt the Omni way,
but with IS having "!Space Magic!"(Quirks) all bets are off,
and this would help Clan Under Preformers,

[Bishop Steiner]

Not going away Russ. Even though I'm sure you're pissed at me and not taking my calls because I started a furor over the Enforcers butterface.

[BARBAR0SSA]

I will gladly accept buffs along the lines of

Summoner: 50% heat reduction 50% cooldown %50 velocity on 1E hardpoint arm for cERPPcs & %50 cooldown on the 1B arm along with %40 JJ boost in height with a built in "Safe Landing" for the legs

Nova; It's tough because I don't want to make the thing a crazy laser boat dishing out 80 pt alphas, so lets go with +40% speed tweak, %25 heat, range, cooldown on MPLs and SPLS and some Armor bonuses, make it more of a hit and run with pulse laser specialty, or go completely outside the box and give it some UAC cooldown buffs

Myst Lynx; +30% speed tweak, that should give it the lag armor, with the clan XL I don't think it deserve any wep tweaks.

Warhawk, %20 cERPPc heat reduction may be all required (that's 13 heat for cERPPcs then bring a TC if you want projectile speed)

Adder Speed tweak, armor buff, PPC and Pulse Laser buffs (Lrm ones?)

Kitfox; Speed, LL buffs lets say %50 burn time and cool down! Armor buff


Some of them I made extreme, but hey the Timbergod is the mech that's so OP right, so these trivial buffs won't change a thing

Edited by shad0w4life, 12 February 2015 - 09:05 AM.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

Firstly, a preface.

I, am a TT and Lore guy. I like my stock builds, stock history, etc. I loather boating/alpha strike metas, especially when done at the expense of the flavor of the game universe. There are plenty of other generic mech shooters for making generic mech builds with.

That said? I am also a realist. This is an evolving F2P, FPS with delusions of being a SimLite. The balancing factors that work well on paper, with RNG, etc, don't always translate well to the FPS environment. While the ideal is to keep things as close as "possible" to the source material, which has always been PGI's stated goal, reality is that things sometimes just don't work out as one hopes.

And that brings me to my "Endo 4 the Poor" initiative. For too long, the poor and underprivileged Omnimechs of MWO have been subjugated as second class citizens, by the Unholy Trinity. The Dire Wolf (no, it doesn't have Endo, and realistically, it doesn't benefit from it either as it needs space more than tonnage), Timber Wolf and Storm Crow. They hold a monopoly, no just on the game in general, but over their own kinsmen. One can hardly fairly balance Clan Tech, and determine what if any tweaks DOWN the Trinity needs until there is a semi-even playing field for Omnimechs in general.

Simply put, any nerfs to Clan Tech put in place now, seem to scarcely affect hose 3, but continue to drive the second class chassis even further into Mech Poverty. And because they are not balanced against themselves, it is all but impossible to really balance between Clan and IS.

Lock the criticals by chassis if you must, so those that have it, always have the crits in the same spot. Certainly we don't want our poor and underprivileged to have too much freedom. But show them mercy by allowing them a chance to shine.

The precedent was already set. We were going to get FULLY locked cores on all Omnis, originally. Then people realized....many Omnis have crap for armor, and would be DoA because of that. So Darth Paul relented, and armor became adjustable.

Likewise, we are not talking things that could cause major imbalances of their own, like Engines Swaps, etc, but something that realistically frees up about 4 tons max, for the biggest mechs that can realistically use it, like the Gargoyle. The Direwolf can't really use it, and the Warhawk has nowhere near enough free criticials. But mechs like the Nova, Summoner, Mad Dog and such would gain so much, from such a minor amount more of available tonnage.

So please, help our needy underprivileged OmniMechs. And by doing so help your IS mechs to, by allowing real balance to be a possibility in MWO.

TL;DR - Endo as an option, with fixed criticals per chassis, would make a lot of lower tier Clan Mechs more competitive, without needing freak level quirks. And at the same time, literally doesn't benefit any of the "Rich" high tier Omnis, because the ones that CAN use it, already have it anyhow.

*This message was brought to you by the Foundation for Better Mech Balance, and the Urbanmech Union of the Lyran Commonwealth.

For a similarly enlightenedmessage reviewing balance from a differing perspective, please see: http://mwomercs.com/...der-performers/

I second this motion and move for a vote on the floor. all in favor say aye, all against say nay.

the floor has spoken let clan mechs upgrade at least internal structure and lock the crits.

after we see how clan mechs perform with endo PGI can get a real grasp on clan VS IS weapon balance.

but as long as the TW and stormcrow exist there will never be a "balanced" solution they simply outclass all other clan mechs in their respective weight classes.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mellifluer, on 12 February 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

I second this motion and move for a vote on the floor. all in favor say aye, all against say nay.

the floor has spoken let clan mechs upgrade at least internal structure and lock the crits.

after we see how clan mechs perform with endo PGI can get a real grasp on clan VS IS weapon balance.

but as long as the TW and stormcrow exist there will never be a "balanced" solution they simply outclass all other clan mechs in their respective weight classes.

very true.

But this will allow it to be demonstrated in an indisputable manner, with no gray zones for PGI or Compies to obfuscate behind.

[Andi Nagasia]

on the 17th when IS gets Quirk Pass #2,
we will see where the Lesser Clan Mechs stand,
my prediction, {its not gonna be pretty},

[Bishop Steiner]

Andi Nagasia, on 12 February 2015 - 12:47 PM, said:

on the 17th when IS gets Quirk Pass #2,
we will see where the Lesser Clan Mechs stand,
my prediction, {its not gonna be pretty},

you and I both know it.

It will just continue to push forward laser vomitry. oh joy.