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Ppc And Er-Ppc Needing Nerfed Again.


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#81 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 05:02 PM

View PostAlek Ituin, on 28 January 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:


First off: The PPC is a PARTICLE Cannon, not a lightning cannon. It fires a particle beam from a linear accelerator that might cause EM disruption on impact. It looks like lightning when fired, but the very name of the gun says it isn't.

Secondly, any conductive surface acts as electromagnetic shielding. If you know anything about Mech armor from the lore, you'd know it contains conductive elements as the majority of the composite. Conductive armor = no EM disruption.


Gotta correct you on one thing. All lightning is? A charged particle physics stream. A ppc merely uses a a positively charged particles to aim and initiate it

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 28 January 2015 - 05:12 PM.


#82 Colonel Fubar

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 05:07 PM

Yep...PPC this week...who knows what weapon system will nerfed up or down next week.
Until That Day

#83 Zensei

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 05:13 PM

View PostTaynak, on 10 January 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

This is a call for both clan and innershpere.... the ppc's are everywhere... people are oping them and you have teams of 12 pugs with all ppc...

this game is just a pile of boring most of the time because of these imbalances... please fix this... would like to see more than one type of build out there..


I think it's a stretch, all PPC and ERPPC? I've just never had that problem where I was plagued by them at any measure. I think you are overreacting and probably need to get into a missile fest followed by an AC game.

When its gets to the machine guns are OP point, turn off your computer and go play catch with your dog.

#84 Clydewinder

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 05:25 PM

PPCs are just bad right now. Somewhere between 33% and 50% of them hit the target with no damage when chainfired.

#85 Deathlike

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 06:01 PM

View PostRokuzachi, on 10 January 2015 - 08:27 PM, said:

I think the Cicada 3C is a good example of an ERPPC-using mech that has great quirks for it, but is pretty well balanced because of the fact that it can only ever mount one of them.


Ironically, it's not a good example of a good mech. It might have "appropriate quirks", but the mech itself is a terrible disaster comparable to the Spider-5K.

#86 Alek Ituin

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 09:00 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 28 January 2015 - 05:02 PM, said:

Gotta correct you on one thing. All lightning is? A charged particle physics stream. A ppc merely uses a a positively charged particles to aim and initiate it


Except it's not. Lightning is electrostatic discharge between two regions of electrically charged material, commonly resulting in a plasma arc. Technically, lightning is a result of electrostatic fields, not particle streams.

A linear accelerator such as powers a PPC, fires an electron beam at any target in its path, regardless of its conductive properties. Ergo, it is not a lightning gun because it does not function in a manner that would create lightning.

View Postuebersoldat, on 28 January 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:


Straight from Sarna - "Targets hit by multiple, simultaneous PPCs can also suffer electrical side-effects, such as overloaded computer systems or targeting sensors."

EDIT: http://www.sarna.net...rojector_Cannon


Conductive. Armor.

Physics says no.

#87 InspectorG

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 09:29 PM

Gotta nerf that C-ERPPC.

So Flamers dont have to feel so bad.

#88 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 09:36 PM

View PostAlek Ituin, on 28 January 2015 - 09:00 PM, said:


Except it's not. Lightning is electrostatic discharge between two regions of electrically charged material, commonly resulting in a plasma arc. Technically, lightning is a result of electrostatic fields, not particle streams.

A linear accelerator such as powers a PPC, fires an electron beam at any target in its path, regardless of its conductive properties. Ergo, it is not a lightning gun because it does not function in a manner that would create lightning.



Conductive. Armor.

Physics says no.

and what is that electrostatic discharge composed of?
Positively charged particles.
http://www.regentspr...nin/default.htm

Which are "projected" because the effect is caused by an artificial laser creating the charge path.
like so.

http://www.popsci.co...age-through-air

Also, this is stompy robot space magic. Physics don't care. PPCs cause emp effects. Cuz battletech says so

#89 Alek Ituin

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 10:07 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 28 January 2015 - 09:36 PM, said:

and what is that electrostatic discharge composed of?
Positively charged particles.
http://www.regentspr...nin/default.htm

Which are "projected" because the effect is caused by an artificial laser creating the charge path.
like so.

http://www.popsci.co...age-through-air

Also, this is stompy robot space magic. Physics don't care. PPCs cause emp effects. Cuz battletech says so


Wow. You're gonna start this, aren't you? Lets go then.

1.) Yeah, electricity is comprised of charged particles. Want a Nobel Prize for that shocking (badum-tss) discovery? F**k, that was a really bad pun... Anyway, you know how lightning works right? You read your little link? It's electrostatic discharge. It's not aimed or directed in any way at any particular target. It's electrical conduction between two oppositely charged regions of material.

2.) It's not a particle beam weapon, it's a directed energy weapon operating off of a LIPC creating a conductive channel through which electricity can be discharged. I didn't even have to open the friggin article to know that right off the bat. It's something I'd been toying with in my head for a while, as a method of creating a functional tesla cannon. Looks like the Army beat me to it though, so there goes that.

3.) For the record, the PPC is a linear accelerator. Which, as it happens, is great for firing electrons with high kinetic energy. Which, as it happens, makes it a great weapon at a high enough energy. Which, as it happens, doesn't require a laser beam to guide it. Which, as it happens, the PPC doesn't even have in its description. Which, as it happens, IS BECAUSE LIPC TESLA CANNONS ARE NOT PARTICLE WEAPONS.

Do you know how that little DARPA project does damage? Heat. Intense, incredible, surface-of-the-sun-shaming heat. It doesn't do damage through direct kinetic particle bombardment like ACTUAL PARTICLE WEAPONS.

Here, lets take a look at the fluff: Particle Projector Cannon

First off, "PPCs fire a concentrated stream of protons or ions at a target, causing damage through both thermal and kinetic energy". That's exactly what a linear accelerator does, because it can accelerate protons, ions, electrons, etc.

Secondly, "Ion beam", not "electrical arc". I hope I don't need to explain why exactly a coherent ion beam isn't a lightning bolt.

EDIT: Oh, s**t, didn't even see that last part. You're trying to argue that the PPC is a lightning gun based on... Well, obviously not the definition of a particle weapon, but whatever. It's based in physics either way, and yet you're trying to say physics doesn't matter? *sniffs the air* I smell a smell... a smelly smell... It smells like... HYPOCRISY.

EDIT 2: Wow, I'm pretty tired and that was on helluva rant. Let me boil it down for you so you don't have to read through if you don't want to:

PPC's are directed particle beam weapons as described by their fluff. In no way does a "lightning gun" fit the description of directed particle beam weapon. "Lightning" weapons operate on causing a plasma arc with the target, which causes it to most often times explode. It's equally as awesome as a particle beam weapon, but it isn't a particle beam weapon by definition, sorry.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 28 January 2015 - 10:31 PM.


#90 uebersoldat

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 08:49 AM

@alek - First you say it's not lightning or anything like it, then you say it functions as a tesla coil with electricity. Your argument isn't very well presented, number one because you've resorted to cursing and number two, is pointless in the first place because Battletech =! real world physics.

I love a nerd argument as well as the next guy but you are just being purposefully obtuse here.

Back to the OP discussion. Make the PPC valuable by jacking with the target's sensors and HUD. No need to mess with RoF or dmg values.

#91 ThirtyOughtSix

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 09:37 AM

Surly you jest!

PPCs are a joke! The reg sucks, heat terrible and damage mediocre. For a weapon that is supposed to be feared it is not in normal circumstances. This is why outside of CW you hardly see much PPC based builds. The damage sucks!

In my 15 years of experience playing Mechwarrior titles it's a shame the PPC isn't better - it's probably one of the staples the Mechearrior franchise. I'm not advocating a buff for the PPC but just because CW PUGS have figured out a way to use PPCs effectively doesn't mean we need to nerf them.

Last rant: I can spam PPC in CW all day long and I won't get a kill in my CW matches. This is because I'm the only noon who dropped in a ranged mech. Most PUGS have no clue what to bring to the table. Either way do not nerf PPCs fix them(the hit reg).

#92 generalazure

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 10:35 AM

View Postuebersoldat, on 29 January 2015 - 08:49 AM, said:

[...] is pointless in the first place because Battletech =! real world physics.


Also, in real world physics a proton beam would be utterly useless as a weapon... so we might not want to base PPC performance on that :P

#93 Nightmare1

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 10:39 AM

PPCs and ERPPCs DO NOT NEED A NERF!!! They only recently got buffed, and are still nerfed so hard compared to their old stats that they are scarcely usable!

Hands off my PPCs! I don't even run the TDR-9S PPC boat, or the Awesome PPC boat, or the Stalker PPC boat, but I don't want my Mechs that do have PPCs to be nerfed because one or two chassis are a bit OP. PPcs are not at fault; don't nerf them!

#94 Brody319

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 10:39 AM

Posted Image


PPCs are FINE! What needs fixing is the heat system.





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