21 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

First of all, this thread based on MWO stats tracking so take it with large grains of salt.

LRM10s and I became buddies when I learned that Mediums-especially those with JJs can boat them to good effect. So Shawks and Centurions became my LRM10 rides, pre-quirks. Nowadays I'm rocking them on Assaults to farm C-Bills. Here are my stats.



Not too shabby right? After I bought the Timbie-S I also wanted to try out the Clan version of the LRM10s. I knew beforehand, that due to stream firing mechanic, the CLRMs are 3-4 times more vulnerable to AMS compared with the IS variant. Not to mention cover is lot more effective vs. CLRMs as well. I was steeling for 5-10% less hit statistics but what came next surprised me.



Now, ignore the "Matches" and "Time equipped" stats. Those are bugged, cause for some reason MWO cannot track those stats for Clan weapons even remotely accurately. There is just no way that I managed to fire 23,310 LRMs in 5 matches, and my Timbie-S drop count says 26 in mech stats, anyway.

My CLRM10 has 7.15% better accuracy than IS LRM10. Barring stats tracking mistake, that is the exact opposite of what I was expecting! One could attribute it to luck, but remember, I have far more experience with using IS LRMs than CLRMs.

However, hit % does not tell the whole story. Perhaps my high hit ratio of CLRMs are due to the lack of minimum range of the CLRMs--I can just fire them away within 180 meters and shots will still register. Therefore, let us calculate the average damage dealt by each type of missile then.

IS LRM10 = 157,794 / 147,719 = 1.07 damage per missile. The reason being over half my LRM10 matches were played before PGI nerfed LRMs from 1.1 damage to 1.0 damage per missile.

Clan LRM10 = 10,836 / 11,121 = 0.97 damage per missile. Considering the fact that I played the Timbie-S after the LRM damage nerf, 0.97 damage is really not far off from 1.0 damage of the current IS LRMs.

TLDR: I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that based on personal experience, Clan LRMs are not worse than IS LRMs, when it comes down to hit %. Again, one must take these stats with grains of salt due to how inaccurate the trackers can be, especially of Clan weapons.

Edited by El Bandito, 11 January 2015 - 03:12 PM.

[L3mming2]

El Bandito, on 11 January 2015 - 03:00 PM, said:

Now, ignore the "Matches" and "Time equipped" stats. Those are bugged, cause for some reason MWO cannot track those stats for Clan weapons even remotely accurately. There is just no way that I managed to fire 23,310 LRMs in 5 matches, and my Timbie-S drop count says 26 in mech stats, anyway.

maby there is its a clan mech

now serious you should chek the hit % for biger lrm lanchers, the IS lrm20 misses a load of missiles due to its large spread(eaven when targeting big and slow assaults), the clan lrm 20 dous not have this problem. i think the difrence in those 2 will be a load bigger then for the lrm 10's

[Andi Nagasia]

you really cant test it with so few LRM10 matches, as it could be you just got a few good LRM games,
just as if you get a bad game and miss allot then your totals will be way off in the case of IS,
maybe if both sides had 200 matches then it would seem more balanced,

[LameoveR]

You really can't test it with so bugged statistics:
Clan

IS

Es ist fantastisch!

[Monkey Lover]

Most of us couldn't test anyway because he played clans after the lrm nerf wars.

My IS lrm20 has higher hit rate than my c lrm20. Im guessing this is from the 4 month where I was hitting dirt on the first shot because of the lock bug.

We have to log what we have now and check again after 50 matches.

[Praehotec8]

You have 5 matches listed vs. 182 matches. Your data sets are not aligned enough to make any statistical significance. Get a roughly equal sample size and make a comparison again. Would be interesting to see if the numbers stay the same.

[Escef]

The observation assumes that your ability to lob LRMs in such a fashion as to make them connect has not improved over time.

[Lily from animove]

I wish we could manually reset our stats and have a second total stat value.

are your initial lrm's also from times you lerned the game? because then its an indicator you may missed more by being inexperienced.

5 matches are also not enough
then also the number of luncher is important, did you bring lrm 40 with 4x10 lrm or not.

further have you calculatd the number of c-lrms/ match you fired? statistics seem broken XD

[El Bandito]

Praehotec8, on 11 January 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

You have 5 matches listed vs. 182 matches. Your data sets are not aligned enough to make any statistical significance. Get a roughly equal sample size and make a comparison again. Would be interesting to see if the numbers stay the same.

Lily from animove, on 11 January 2015 - 04:40 PM, said:

I wish we could manually reset our stats and have a second total stat value.



are your initial lrm's also from times you lerned the game? because then its an indicator you may missed more by being inexperienced.



5 matches are also not enough

then also the number of luncher is important, did you bring lrm 40 with 4x10 lrm or not.

further have you calculatd the number of c-lrms/ match you fired? statistics seem broken XD

God dammit people, I specifically told you to ignore the match count and focus on the number of times fired, yet you still quote that "mere 5 matches". I already stated I had 26 drops with the Timbie-S, every time with LRM10s. Naturally I will play with CLRMs more, but this is just preliminary observation.

The IS LRM stats are from the current archive. I have thousand more LRM drops with the old archive, and even before the archive existed. I've been playing with LRMs since 2012.

Escef, on 11 January 2015 - 04:37 PM, said:

The observation assumes that your ability to lob LRMs in such a fashion as to make them connect has not improved over time.

My stats with the LRM10s were constant 40%, throughout 2014. However, it is an improvement over 2013--where I had 36% hit ratio. Plus I noticed that Clan LRMs are actually harder to lob over than IS LRMs due to lower arch and stream firing mechanism.

Edited by El Bandito, 11 January 2015 - 07:08 PM.

[Escef]

El Bandito, on 11 January 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

My stats with the LRM10s were constant 40%, throughout 2014. However, it is an improvement over 2013--where I had 36% hit ratio. Plus I noticed that Clan LRMs are actually harder to lob over than IS LRMs due to lower arch and stream firing mechanism.

If you want proper results for statistical analysis you need to create fresh accounts and play them concurrently. You also can't just rely on yourself as a sample, you need samples from multiple users.

Quite simply put, there is no way that your stats can be used as the sole foundation for serious analysis in regards to what is happening for the total game population.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

You know that I really do always love your well thought out posts and argument my friend. In this case though I think we really need a larger sample size unfortunately. I understand 23,000 seems like a lot but given the numbers we are talking I still don't think its enough.

Edited by Blueduck, 11 January 2015 - 08:29 PM.

[Vanguard836]

How much of these percentage were affected by TAG and/or NARC ? Problem is there's no way of keeping track of how much more missile hits % is affected in those stats. Just a thought.

[xXBagheeraXx]

It may be counting each individual single lrm launch with clan lrms.

IS lrms are usually launched in a one massive cloud or several small groups of at least 5 or 6.

[Praehotec8]

El Bandito, on 11 January 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

God dammit people, I specifically told you to ignore the match count and focus on the number of times fired, yet you still quote that "mere 5 matches". I already stated I had 26 drops with the Timbie-S, every time with LRM10s. Naturally I will play with CLRMs more, but this is just preliminary observation.

No need to get angry, it's nice you bothered to think about this, but the bare fact is that unfortunately nothing can be drawn from data of this nature. It may bear out to be true, but at the point you presented your post, the information means essentially nothing.

I've run mechs that after 5 matches had a K:D ratio of 6+, that after many more matches settled much lower. Five is simply too small of a data set to have any statistical power.

[El Bandito]

Praehotec8, on 11 January 2015 - 11:37 PM, said:

No need to get angry, it's nice you bothered to think about this, but the bare fact is that unfortunately nothing can be drawn from data of this nature. It may bear out to be true, but at the point you presented your post, the information means essentially nothing.

I've run mechs that after 5 matches had a K:D ratio of 6+, that after many more matches settled much lower. Five is simply too small of a data set to have any statistical power.

Unbelievable. I specifically said again and again that the true match count is 26, rather than 5. The stats tracker is bugged when it comes to Clan weapon drop count. Even if I play 100 more matches, it will STILL show 5 matches total.

Observe: I played few more games after making this thread, and the number of missiles fired had increased and hit% had also changed, BUT THE DROP COUNT STAYS THE SAME DUE TO BUG.



I am dropping more with the S and see if the % will become lower than IS one, cause popular myth dictates that it should.

xXBagheeraXx, on 11 January 2015 - 09:44 PM, said:

It may be counting each individual single lrm launch with clan lrms.

IS lrms are usually launched in a one massive cloud or several small groups of at least 5 or 6.

Nope. It counts IS LRMs as individuals as well. It is simply impossible to fire 360,000+ volleys in 15 hours of game play. Not if you care about winning.

Edited by El Bandito, 11 January 2015 - 11:55 PM.

[Draven Darkshadow]

here are my stats, I don't bother to use art on c-lrms really because its stream volley rather than regular lrms which art works a bit better, as for game time i believe its how many games and how long those games lasted you had whatever amount of number of launchers you had per game equiped

Edited by Draven Darkshadow, 12 January 2015 - 12:06 AM.

[El Bandito]

Draven Darkshadow, on 11 January 2015 - 11:57 PM, said:

here are my stats, I don't bother to use art on c-lrms really because its stream volley rather than regular lrms which art works a bit better

It does seem that CLRMs have even or slightly higher hit % than IS LRMs in your case as well, with the exception of CLRM20. I think CLRM20s are special kind of bad.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 January 2015 - 12:00 AM.

[totgeboren]

My two missile boats (not just flinging LRMs to get some c-bills, but using LRMs as the main means of causing damage and getting kills) use either LRM10+A or C-LRM15.

The LRM10+A has a hit rate of 46.39% and the C-LRM15 has a hit rate of 44.25%.

I would have expected a much larger discrepancy in favour of the IS launcher, since it is both smaller and uses Artemis.
However, my Clan LRM-boat uses a Narc, while my IS boat uses a TAG, and that makes all the difference.

So, the question to El Bandito, do you use TAG or NARC on either of your LRM boats?

Also, I found that the speed of a mech also improves hit rate. A fast mech means you can get at good angles easier and faster to deny your opponent cover, and my Clan LRM boat (SCW) is much faster than my IS medium LRM boat.

[El Bandito]

totgeboren, on 12 January 2015 - 12:02 AM, said:

My two missile boats (not just flinging LRMs to get some c-bills, but using LRMs as the main means of causing damage and getting kills) use either LRM10+A or C-LRM15.

The LRM10+A has a hit rate of 46.39% and the C-LRM15 has a hit rate of 44.25%.

I would have expected a much larger discrepancy in favour of the IS launcher, since it is both smaller and uses Artemis.
However, my Clan LRM-boat uses a Narc, while my IS boat uses a TAG, and that makes all the difference.

So, the question to El Bandito, do you use TAG or NARC on either of your LRM boats?

Also, I found that the speed of a mech also improves hit rate. A fast mech means you can get at good angles easier and faster to deny your opponent cover, and my Clan LRM boat (SCW) is much faster than my IS medium LRM boat.

I use TAG on both IS and Clan mechs. My main LRM10 boats were mostly Shadow Hawks (After GH link, I mounted them on Atlas-S) while the current Clan LRM boat is the Timbie-S.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 January 2015 - 12:06 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Did you use a JJing mech that goes 89kph for evey IS LRM match? Are all those matches done within this same time period> as in this past couple months?

If not then those are more reasons we have to dismiss any conclusion you might want to draw from those stats. Also sample size is fubar but apparently we arent supoosed to see it, it being 25 and not 5 is still broken fyi.