186 replies to this topic

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

It's unfortunate to try and have an actual discussion and instead certain people's addition to the discussion is memes. Oh well, as I pointed out to one of those people their behaviour just hasn't changed. Anyway...

Dawnstealer, on 13 January 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

I do find the irony of someone from CJF bringing up the sportsmanship thing, but I'll bite. One of the least enjoyable matches I've played in this game was against the Lords. It wasn't so much that they stomped the PUG team I was on, they really are good players, but the constant trolling comments of how bad our team was.

Seriously - there was not one of us that was grouped, I don't think, versus an organized 12-man on comms, that was Clan. On defense. On the arctic one. Even if they were just okay players, they would have had a huge advantage.

I've been on the losing side of some bad stomps before. I don't think you can play this game without having a couple of those under your belt. This one was utterly unenjoyable thanks in large part to the near-constant berating from the Lords players.

This would be like Michael Jordan playing a pee-wee league basketball player and bragging about it - it's not a real impressive accomplishment to beat a disorganized group of players dropping for fun when you're one of the elite groups that takes this whole thing really seriously. It was enough to make me stop dropping on that border because, honestly, I'm just here for the hour or so distraction each night.

Instead of watching whatever crap is rolling out as the new sitcom, I play MWO. But against egotistical ******* like that? Eh - I can do other stuff. I dropped on the other border until the numbers dried up, now I'm back to PUG and solo dropping in the regular game rather than playing CW.

Understand the frustration. The behaviour you notice is what has my unit considering leaving CJF space (we're Clan Diamond Shark).

I've seen that behaviour with IS units as well. A group possessing a large number of players going against an unorganized team and at the end pouting their chests as if it was a great accomplishment. For some it's possibly understood as they may sometimes lose against unorganized team but within my unit that's not a condition to be disrespectful to others (there are no moments to be disrespectful to others).

I don't care to pick on any one unit but there really do seem to be some that are built around a culture of negativity and hostility.

Edited by Daisu Saikoro, 13 January 2015 - 11:26 AM.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Marack Drock, on 13 January 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

That's cause Eddy is edgy and no one will book him

And yes you are right it is about bad community warfare doesn't that make this like the 1000th duplicate of threads exactly like this discussing the same problems and then having rage wars that no one gives 2 craps about but continues to rage anyways?

You're pretty good with hyperbole, hmm? If this is a duplicate thread then I apologize. If you could then help us by explaining what the conclusions of those threads were as it'd be nice to come up with answers instead of having the question repeated multiple times.

I'm unsure what you're referring to about rage wars.

[Alexander Steel]

Some people like to win so much they play video games on the easiest setting possible so they can completely crush the computer. These same people play MWO as well.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Wildstreak, on 13 January 2015 - 07:37 AM, said:

Honestly, when I played CW for the week I did, the worst I saw was
- 1 Smoke Jaguer 12 man.
- 1-2 Liao 12 mans.
- 1 JF 8-9 man that had interesting tactics but ruined the experience by demanding the IS team drive Thunderblunders, 'or else.'

I had far more matches than these against both teams & PUGs, the team matches were usually rolls, point is while the attitude does exist it is not the majority.

It still exists in the other Modes too, I still have some sceen captures of the Quality Ones, sometimes I send them in though I am not sure if anything is ever done.

As for the Forums, I moved that to a whole new thread.

Like the OP, I live in NYC, we have enough stupidity going on in the Rotten Apple, we don't need it in our games.

I've had to send in screenshots of abusive language and behavior and I'm unsure if anything is being done as well. My question then becomes if PGI doesn't handle it what can we, the players do?

Alexander Steel, on 13 January 2015 - 11:30 AM, said:

Some people like to win so much they play video games on the easiest setting possible so they can completely crush the computer. These same people play MWO as well.

True, and while that's not a problem (it's good to have mountains to climb) the overall behavior that may follow that.

As it stands, the CJF and CW space due to some units behaviour are ones we may be moving away from. What some teams may also not get is that their behaviour can make their teammates want to find other areas to fight in (at least ones who don't have a permanent alliance in game at the moment).

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Marack Drock, on 13 January 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Meaning this OP is talking about how trashy this community acts and how bad CW is....... which just look around you will see mostly: Threads Hating on CW, Threads Hating on PGI, Threads Hating on people who drive a Thunderbolt, Threads hating on people who whine, Threads where people are only whining, and then just trolling... then you have recruitment threads and threads telling people to get in CW and defend a planet. In short......... 80% is just hate and whining. Conclusion something needs to be done or this game really does suck balls.

Edit- Read almost any thread with over 100 posts.... there will be a rage war in all of them. Or someone extremely butt hurt and trolling. Just a bunch of rage.

I am the original poster.

I love Community Warfare and play it exclusively as often as I can.

The original post is about how toxic behaviour can push users away from CW making a smaller pool for everyone which diminishes the overall experience of the game (we need people to play in order to have games).

I worry you may be bringing your bias into this thread as you refer to threads with over 100 posts (this isn't one of them), this has nothing to do with Thunderbolts (it's a part of the game which may or may not be changed, until then it's just something to overcome).


I'd ask you to investigate why you're a part of this thread. If you're here to speak on the topic and be helpful that's great, but if you're on the thread to troll (I always fear people who use the term "butt hurt") please find another thread. As you've pointed out there are many to do so in.

[Edit] And I'm appreciative of what PGI is trying to do and very happy to have a really strong variant of MW after the 10+ wait after MW4. So... again, I think you may be confusing this thread / my post with a perspective from others.

Edited by Daisu Saikoro, 13 January 2015 - 11:42 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Marack Drock, on 13 January 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Edit- Read almost any thread with over 100 posts.... there will be a rage war in all of them. Or someone extremely butt hurt and trolling. Just a bunch of rage.

You're new to the interwebz, aren't you?

That's EVERY gaming internet community. MWO Forums are no better, nor worse, than any other gaming forum. Admittedly, it was a lot better in Closed BETA when people were offering input, and not just crying for an Easy Button.

/shrug.

[Roadbeer]

Marack Drock, on 13 January 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

Never been like this on ST:O, LoTR:O, Spiral Knights, etc Again I have played near 1000 games many online games. I do not have this problem with game communities especially not the old forums for old games like MW3 and MW4 and The Guild 2 and stuff.

Also no I am not new to the Internet I use to play Dial up connection when I was 4. Was watching youtube and on game forums at 10 (particularly for the MW games). This community has had pent up hatred on the forums for years and has had a lack of friendliness anywhere in game..... maybe that is why people stopped playing and just left and why this game is slowly dying.

Suddenly, everything is clear.

[Lukoi Banacek]

MD, we have been duly informed of your opinion. Thanks.

The thread however, is not about your opinion on the community or any of your many other sidebars.

The OP is asking that you kindly remain on topic to what is relevant to the discussion.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Roadbeer, on 13 January 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

You're new to the interwebz, aren't you?

That's EVERY gaming internet community. MWO Forums are no better, nor worse, than any other gaming forum. Admittedly, it was a lot better in Closed BETA when people were offering input, and not just crying for an Easy Button.

/shrug.

Thank you. Brought up a point I was thinking about how earlier the game environment (and forums) gave the perception of being welcoming and respectful. I remember the idea that MW gamers are a bit older and by virtue a bit less impulsive or whatever is assigned to younger players and that was a reason why.

It'd be interesting to see if the demographics of the game has changed.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Marack Drock, on 13 January 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

Never been like this on ST:O, LoTR:O, Spiral Knights, etc Again I have played near 1000 games many online games. I do not have this problem with game communities especially not the old forums for old games like MW3 and MW4 and The Guild 2 and stuff.

Also no I am not new to the Internet I use to play Dial up connection when I was 4. Was watching youtube and on game forums at 10 (particularly for the MW games). This community has had pent up hatred on the forums for years and has had a lack of friendliness anywhere in game..... maybe that is why people stopped playing and just left and why this game is slowly dying.

As much as people were upset about the forum wipe (reset) I, and a few others I spoke to, saw a huge difference in the input and behavior of the forums here.

Oh well, as someone part of communities where the forums (and I am guessing gaming community) is a bit less toxic what do you see as being the differences?

I've been wondering if having a communal lobby (like we had on the Zone in MW4) would help due to the relatively forced interaction of groups.

[Roadbeer]

Marack Drock, on 13 January 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

There is nothing very "newbie friendly" about this game: not the game itself nor the people.

While I agree that the game itself is somewhat unforgiving to the new player...

The forums are newbie friendly, they're just overly hostile to stupidity.
I've never seen anyone blasted for an honest question, just for bad opinions.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Marack Drock, on 13 January 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

Well relevant to the discussion is ONLY opinion. No, one here has taken numbers on the hate and such so everything said is just opinion. BTW I wouldn't have had to go off topic if people would take time to read and stop condescending something they all admitted was true. Good lord.I never said Eddy wasn't funny I love his stuff just saying he has a foul mouth.

The OP has created a thread that is only opinion. So I am not off topic. Also on topic want to see the hate?

http://mwomercs.com/...i-hate-you-pgi/
http://mwomercs.com/...op-complaining/
http://mwomercs.com/...ame-developers/
http://mwomercs.com/...most-about-pgi/
If you want more just type in search about hate, complaint, or just look in the Community Warfare thread that this is in and see..... endless threads saying CW sucks and bashing PGI. Not only that in game is nothing but hate. People complaining no one plays, people complaining cause they lost, people complaining because a newb is playing, people trolling the chat, people shouting down the other team with insults etc. OP is right. There is nothing very "newbie friendly" about this game: not the game itself nor the people.

Someone could give the opinion they think eating bananas are better than apples, that wouldn't be ontopic for what I asked and questioned.

Your rage threads aren't on topic as they do not address (nor were a part of) what I started this thread to discuss.

This isn't just an issue about new users, it also affects people who have been playing the game for awhile or are adults.

[Roadbeer]

Marack Drock, on 13 January 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

You are right. But unfortunately I think any newb would be rather deterred from the game the way the forums are currently hating on CW (the end all be all thing everyone wanted so badly that was also supposed to be the jewel of the game).

I think you're coloring your opinion with a little confirmation bias here.

You want to see the forums hating on CW, because those are the threadnaughts where people are debating (well, arguing, meh semantics) either bad ideas or wrong-headed opinions, and you have a negative opinion of CW, so that's what you WANT to see. Those are the ones that rise to the top for you.

But on the whole, most of the threads here are about good ideas and fixes, many are correcting misassumptions, or simply finding ways to enhance the game.

You see what you want to see.

[Roadbeer]

Marack Drock, on 13 January 2015 - 12:47 PM, said:

Edit- And as my opinion is stated and as many of you seem to be also biased towards the opposite as me I am going to end my posts here.

No, you're completely wrong.

I don't recall you being banned, I never saw the president of the company tell you that a certain feature would be put in the game if you didn't play anymore, I don't see you as a member of a sub-community that hemorrhaged players prior to CW and has subsequently seen a revitalization that has remained consistent and expanding since the release of CW.

Few have more reason than I to feel shat on by PGI.

I see both the good and the bad with the game, I'm neither Pollyanna nor Doom and Gloom. As always, I mock hyperbole, which is why you often draw my fire.

[Mystere]

Dawnstealer, on 13 January 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

I do find the irony of someone from CJF bringing up the sportsmanship thing, but I'll bite. One of the least enjoyable matches I've played in this game was against the Lords. It wasn't so much that they stomped the PUG team I was on, they really are good players, but the constant trolling comments of how bad our team was.

Seriously - there was not one of us that was grouped, I don't think, versus an organized 12-man on comms, that was Clan. On defense. On the arctic one. Even if they were just okay players, they would have had a huge advantage.

I've been on the losing side of some bad stomps before. I don't think you can play this game without having a couple of those under your belt. This one was utterly unenjoyable thanks in large part to the near-constant berating from the Lords players.

This would be like Michael Jordan playing a pee-wee league basketball player and bragging about it - it's not a real impressive accomplishment to beat a disorganized group of players dropping for fun when you're one of the elite groups that takes this whole thing really seriously. It was enough to make me stop dropping on that border because, honestly, I'm just here for the hour or so distraction each night.

Instead of watching whatever crap is rolling out as the new sitcom, I play MWO. But against egotistical ******* like that? Eh - I can do other stuff. I dropped on the other border until the numbers dried up, now I'm back to PUG and solo dropping in the regular game rather than playing CW.

If you think of it in the context of war and the enemy taunting you in an attempt to ruin your morale, then it makes sense.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Roadbeer, on 13 January 2015 - 12:53 PM, said:

No, you're completely wrong.

I don't recall you being banned, I never saw the president of the company tell you that a certain feature would be put in the game if you didn't play anymore, I don't see you as a member of a sub-community that hemorrhaged players prior to CW and has subsequently seen a revitalization that has remained consistent and expanding since the release of CW.

Few have more reason than I to feel shat on by PGI.

I see both the good and the bad with the game, I'm neither Pollyanna nor Doom and Gloom. As always, I mock hyperbole, which is why you often draw my fire.

Roadbeer can I ask you to take it to private.

Your behavior, in part, is part of what I'm referring to about disrespect to others (and through that process themselves).

You, myself, others... we're just human. Our definition of "bad" or "stupid" are just that. There will always be people who are smarter and some who aren't, but we're all human beings so please, as a request, take it elsewhere.

Mystere, on 13 January 2015 - 12:55 PM, said:

If you think of it in the context of war and the enemy taunting you in an attempt to ruin your morale, then it makes sense.

What happens when it's done to your (their) own teammates? How does it make sense in that context?

Edited by Daisu Saikoro, 13 January 2015 - 01:05 PM.

[AlphaToaster]

I think the poor behavior stems from several underlying causes.

1.) Poor community tools. (e.g. No way to block or mute a player that is harassing you.)

2.) Culture of online bullying to get compliance with herd mentality mixed with posturing for e-peen.

The lack of guides and/or instruction on the expectations for performance and teamwork in CW sets the stage.

New players do not know what is expected of them when they drop and they believe they can "do what they want" as far as builds goes, and that they can play the same way they do in the solo queue, and still win. Those who understand this is not the case generally have lost patience with those who do not/have not.

In order for a team to win in CW, you need everyone on board with whichever strategy is decided by the majority. One person not following the groups choice can mean a loss, and the veterans understand this. The new people mistake "well if you don't listen we're going to lose" argument as posturing when it is merely fact, that without full team by-in on a plan of action, failure is certain. Or in some cases, the new person simply doesn't care if they win or lose, they just want to pilot their mechs around, which pisses off the players on their team that hope to win.

Expectations from both groups need to be established and reaffirmed by PGI with Tutorials that outline to the new player what both the community expects from them, and what they can expect from the community for going against the grain.

I generally don't trash talk in matches, but I have little patience for "that guy" who drops into attack, with or without a unit sometimes, in some joke builds (lrms on attack? rly?), complaining about premades before we've dropped, and how IS or Clan is OP this or that. These guys run their mouth most of the game, typically shoot down any plan that is offered (what's the point it's a premade so we're going to lose no matter what, we should just quit), and seemingly are there to troll the team. They usually quit no less than once a week, declaring they are quitting, or this is their last match, in an attempt to pull players with them and try to draw the entire game into a chat argument rather than play the game.

[Mystere]

Daisu Saikoro, on 13 January 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

What happens when it's done to your (their) own teammates? How does it make sense in that context?

It makes as much sense as the acts of "hazing" and "fragging".

Edited by Mystere, 13 January 2015 - 01:32 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Daisu Saikoro, on 13 January 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

Roadbeer can I ask you to take it to private.

Your behavior, in part, is part of what I'm referring to about disrespect to others (and through that process themselves).

You, myself, others... we're just human. Our definition of "bad" or "stupid" are just that. There will always be people who are smarter and some who aren't, but we're all human beings so please, as a request, take it elsewhere.

See, there's the problem.
When you spend all your time worrying about how someone "feels" you tip toe around the REAL issue of how to improve/fix things.

If I can't tell someone their idea is dumb, because I'm worried about their feelings, then bad ideas get moved forward because it wasn't stopped in its tracks.

You know why people don't put their hand on a hot stove? Because they get burned. The stove cares little about your feelings when it burns you.

If people would be honest with each other, then bad ideas (like 1/1/1/1 or Elo in CW) wouldn't exist, because their mind was burned by the hot stove of an honest forum.

[Harathan]

Roadbeer, on 13 January 2015 - 01:41 PM, said:

If people would be honest with each other, then bad ideas (like 1/1/1/1 or Elo in CW) wouldn't exist, because their mind was burned by the hot stove of an honest forum.

I'll like your post, but I actually thought 1/1/1/1 wasn't a terrible idea.