388 replies to this topic

[martian]

Saobh, on 18 January 2015 - 04:31 AM, said:

Its honestly not really a challenge, its a grind. With W/L being around 50% that is about 60 matches or about 10 hours of play on a week end ... even if you are a great player and carry your team each time that would take around 45 matches, its still around 8 hours.

Granted anyway they put it events will be grindable in such a way but at least the "kill + win + survive" meant that you did need skill & be a teamplayer to earn it.

It's grind only as much as you let it be grind. The only problem is in your mind because you imposed on yourself the thought that it must be "grind".

The challenge goes from Friday to Monday. Since you need 30 wins, in average you must win about 8 or 9 games a day or so. That's entirely doable, especially in different 'Mechs and different gamemodes. Nobody forces you to do the challenge in one long shift.

Saobh, on 18 January 2015 - 04:31 AM, said:

Funny thing when you think about it. the CTF-3D (C) + mechbay is about 5300 MC or roughly 22$. if rather then playing those 10 hours you'd work at minimum wage (at 7.25 $) you would make 72.50$ and be able to 2 of them and still have some change left...

Although this may be true, with this logic you don't need C-Bills or anything else. Simply work few weeks or months, buy one hundred thousand MCs and buy all 'Mechs that are in the game.

That's why MCs are for - for people who lack skill, patience or time to earn C-Bills. See? No problem.

Nobody forces you to play the challenge, after all. If you don't like it, ignore it.

[STEF_]

Just did it!
Now my CTF, please

[Scharfschiesser]

martian, on 18 January 2015 - 05:07 AM, said:

And ask yourself if you are good enough? Do you help your team to victory with two, three or four kills? Or do you stay behind somebody and then jump in front of him to steal his kill? And then wonder why the team has lost the game?

Many people seem to forget that getting a kill is only half of the challenge - doing your best to ensure the team victory is the other half of the challenge.

I am nobody's judge.

My personal opinion is that if even such bad player as I am has been capable to complete the challenge successfully, then the challenge can't be too difficult.

Really mate, read again what was written...
I state that this "challenge" is not about being good but about being lucky and you ask me if I am good enough?


I am in that regard "good enough" that I usually (~80% of the games) end up in the top 3 on matchscore from my team. But that doesnt account for anything during this "challenge", because -as said- it isnt about being good!

I also never said that this was difficult... winning the lottery isnt difficult as well, it is just random!

That you finished successfully is no sign of you being good or bad, it is a sign of you being lucky (or atleast not unlucky) with RNG.
Congratulations from my side, but that doesnt change anything about the fact, that this kind of "challenge" is still mostly about luck and encourages grieving instead of "playing good"*.



*about "playing good":
just ask yourself who played better/best:
- a person who does about 1000 damage a match with his heavy/assault, getting some kills/assists, but ultimately lost because he was the only one who really did anything usefull
- a person who taged, narced and spotted multiple enemy machs in his light, getting atleast 8 assists, but no kill
- a person who waits for some minutes before engaging, relentlessly hitting multiple teammates while shooting enemy mechs and finally oneshots a crippled enemy with his 6x PPC troll-built, overheating and exploding while doing so, but still got carried by his teammates who manage to win regardless (because of RNG)

Edited by Scharfschiesser, 18 January 2015 - 05:55 AM.

[martian]

Scharfschiesser, on 18 January 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

Really mate, read again what was written...
I state that this "challenge" is not about being good but about being lucky and you ask me if I am good enough?


I am in that regard "good enough" that I usually (~80% of the games) end up in the top 3 on matchscore from my team. But that doesnt account for anything during this "challenge", because -as said- it isnt about being good!

I also never said that this was difficult... winning the lottery isnt difficult as well, it is just random!

That you finished successfully is no sign of you being good or bad, it is a sign of you being lucky (or atleast not unlucky) with RNG.
Congratulations from my side, but that doesnt change anything about the fact, that this kind of "challenge" is still mostly about luck and encourages grieving instead of "playing good"*.

Yes, you have stated repeatedly that your lack of success is someone else's fault - in your case, some RNG is to blame. All right. And it's luck's fault too. Okay. Of course you have nothing to support your claims.

But you are entitled to your opinion.

Fortunately, I fire my own guns without help of some mythical RNG, I don't care about luck a I don't care about "playing good" (whatever it is). I simply play to win and to succeed.

Obviously, it works for me ...

[PFC Carsten]

Scharfschiesser, on 18 January 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

Really mate, read again what was written...
I state that this "challenge" is not about being good but about being lucky and you ask me if I am good enough?
I am in that regard "good enough" that I usually (~80% of the games) end up in the top 3 on matchscore from my team. But that doesnt account for anything during this "challenge", because -as said- it isnt about being good!

The challenge is not about being good alone. It is also about being good for your team, leading it to win by whatever means you have (even after you've been killed you could offer tactical advice). And I absolutely second you on the luck part - welcome to PUG. Sadly. But that's the burden, PUGers have to bear all the time and even more so when facing a 12-pre-made in CW.

[Scharfschiesser]

martian, on 18 January 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

Yes, you have stated repeatedly that your lack of success is someone else's fault - in your case, some RNG is to blame. All right. And it's luck's fault too. Okay. Of course you have nothing to support your claims.

But you are entitled to your opinion.

Fortunately, I fire my own guns without help of some mythical RNG, I don't care about luck a I don't care about "playing good" (whatever it is). I simply play to win and to succeed.

Obviously, it works for me ...

I dont lack success, I lack luck... and luck / no luck is no ones "fault".

I cant "fail" because I didnt even try to "succeed"... I have better things to do than waste my precious weekend time with RNG (which ironically has to do with success, although not on a rather irrelevant video game challenge... perhaps you understand it some day)

I play for relaxing/enjoyment which is not possible with this "challenge"... not because I wont "beat" it (as said, I dont even try) but because it affects the "surroundings" very badly.

Supporting my "claims"?
This game currently is 12vs12, every single player (you and me) statistically isnt even 5% of the whole outcome (win or defeat) of every single match...
The chance of losing 16 out of 20 games is still well over 15% if you expect a 50/50 outcome in the long term.

And btw what is your supporting argument?
"I did it, so it must be a good event"?...

Edited by Scharfschiesser, 18 January 2015 - 06:41 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Scharfschiesser, on 18 January 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

No, it isnt... it is a lottery.
A challenge is a "contest" that you "beat" when you are good (enough).
This is a "contest" that you "beat" when you get lucky enough.


If this gave a point for every match with a matchscore of atleast X (80-100?) than it would be a challenge, because the matchscores lies purely in the players own responsibility (and -on a side note- actually encourages good game play of everyone instead of grieving in form of team killing, kill stealing and whatever)

No its not, group matches count, so make a group and its les a lottery.

the only true lottery is hitreg + firestarters, whenver a team has like 2 more firestarters than yours it seems to imnblance everything, they can run in circles and no matter of you lead or aim on them its like 80% damage is gone, even with SPL's there is no hitreg exitent.

Scharfschiesser, on 18 January 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

Really mate, read again what was written...
I state that this "challenge" is not about being good but about being lucky and you ask me if I am good enough?


I am in that regard "good enough" that I usually (~80% of the games) end up in the top 3 on matchscore from my team. But that doesnt account for anything during this "challenge", because -as said- it isnt about being good!

I also never said that this was difficult... winning the lottery isnt difficult as well, it is just random!

That you finished successfully is no sign of you being good or bad, it is a sign of you being lucky (or atleast not unlucky) with RNG.
Congratulations from my side, but that doesnt change anything about the fact, that this kind of "challenge" is still mostly about luck and encourages grieving instead of "playing good"*.



*about "playing good":
just ask yourself who played better/best:
- a person who does about 1000 damage a match with his heavy/assault, getting some kills/assists, but ultimately lost because he was the only one who really did anything usefull
- a person who taged, narced and spotted multiple enemy machs in his light, getting atleast 8 assists, but no kill
- a person who waits for some minutes before engaging, relentlessly hitting multiple teammates while shooting enemy mechs and finally oneshots a crippled enemy with his 6x PPC troll-built, overheating and exploding while doing so, but still got carried by his teammates who manage to win regardless (because of RNG)

and now eplain why some struggle awith winning 3 points in 20 matches and others make this challange within 60, total randomness? LOL NO.

because th "good player" doing his 1000dmg 6 kilsl regulary will definately finish this challange rather quick, because he will by randomness not get those total looser team all time.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 January 2015 - 07:14 AM.

[martian]

Thank you for your answer.

And now, who is to blame:

Scharfschiesser, on 18 January 2015 - 06:35 AM, said:

I lack luck... and luck / no luck is no ones "fault".

I didnt even try to "succeed"

Scharfschiesser, on 18 January 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

this "challenge" is not about being good but about being lucky
it is just random!

That you finished successfully ... is a sign of you being lucky (or atleast not unlucky) with RNG

Scharfschiesser, on 18 January 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

No, it isnt... it is a lottery.

Scharfschiesser, on 17 January 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

played exactly 20 games
achieved exactly 0 points (losing 16 out of 20 games...)
uninstalled MWO for good

Do not uninstall MWO, please. And write Russ Bullock to do something with that RNG ...

[Void2258]

71 game 14 points

[Mark of Caine]

93 matches later, including 4 CW matches, I finally got my Cataphract 3D(C). Took a day and a half.

Not sure I'll ever do this again. I know it's a free mech and mechbay, but this kind of grind really wears you out, and at times, brought out the worst in me.

2 matches that made me pull my hair out (metaphorically speaking):

Match 1:
King Crab 000L
6 kills, 4 assists, and went down in a blaze of glory. We're up 10 to 6, yet we still lost because our forces killed themselves in the waiting guns of Assault turrets and the last 2 opponents guarding their base. Turrets got 3 kills.

Match 2:
King Crab 000L
5 kills, 0 assists, and we won the match. I TRIED to let others get kills, but they kept dying before finishing off the enemy. Dunno why the other team kept ignoring my King Crab, but that's the way it went.


At the start, I did my best to get 1 or 2 kills a match with my King Crab and let others get points, but I often saw that playing selflessly resulted in losses. So, playing more selfishly, getting 3-4 kills, earned far more wins, but it always made me feel bad because I was robbing others of their point. This type of challenge caters to the selfish player in all of us, and I don't like it. I've even seen, and been the recipient of, teamkills just to get the kill shot. Seriously PGI, you should definitely promote challenges that encourage teamplay, not selfish play.

Edited by Caine2112, 18 January 2015 - 08:30 AM.

[OffC3nter]

65 games to get my 30 points, much easier then the victor challenge. Most of my games completed in an Oxide or the Dragon 1n. Lottery my ass all u gotta do is shoot straight and have a weekend's worth of time to piss away Also, Much love to the fellow mechwarriors that would leg or cripple a mech and move on to a higher threat target. felt like i saw a lot of that going around in my games.

[Void2258]

Caine2112, on 18 January 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

This type of challenge caters to the selfish player in all of us, and I don't like it. I've even seen, and been the recipient of, teamkills just to get the kill shot. Seriously PGI, you should definitely promote challenges that encourage teamplay, not selfish play.

I've had multiple matches where groups have teamkilled any pugs so they have an easier time getting kills.

[Mark of Caine]

OffC3nter, on 18 January 2015 - 08:31 AM, said:

65 games to get my 30 points, much easier then the victor challenge. Most of my games completed in an Oxide or the Dragon 1n. Lottery my ass all u gotta do is shoot straight and have a weekend's worth of time to piss away Also, Much love to the fellow mechwarriors that would leg or cripple a mech and move on to a higher threat target. felt like i saw a lot of that going around in my games.

You're lucky then that you saw this type of behaviour, because in the first day, I saw a lot of teamkills just to get the killshot.

[Gumon Choji]

I think this is an interesting challenge but it is time intensive. It also is for the competitive free players and not the new players. Thus it is good but I wish it was not on this weekend when I am off of work I wanted to see more new players.

Lets explore.
We are set to win about 40% of the time if you pug. It is the math to make up for large groups. If you win more then this alone you are actually an amazing player.

To win a game you will average 10 min in the game.

For kills you should average about 1.1 kill to death. This is to say if both teams killed everyone then it would be 1 to 1. So someone will live. Also some games you should get over 2 kills. this makes it so you will be playing a long time for the mech. And today kill stealing and defensive play rule most groups. because when you win about one in four will survive on average. That is 3 mechs.

1/4 live 1/2 win = 1/8 points
8 games per win times 10 min per game. 80 min.
Round it down if you are good. to 1 hour per win
30 wins by one hour each is 30 hours.

You will invest 30 hours.

This is not bad but know what this is for. This competition is for players skilled enough to kill and live. It is for free players who are experienced. Thus the new players play like fools to stand a chance. It makes new players see just how much of a gap they have in skill and become frustrated. Just look at the number of players who said they needed to take a break from a game. This competition is to get free based players to play and make the competitive players feel good. This weekend is a way to get people playing hard. 3 days premium time is there to show players how much they could make and try to minimize the rage of players over how difficult the competition is. Players will be up 40% cbills because they are a free players.

I always have all the financial bonuses on. Hero, premium and what not. Even the prize is neat but not a draw. though I like the other players. However the play style for this competition got me from 3 kills a match to very few. See I rely on my team pushing when I strike. The fear of dieing has made players not push. crushing my play style. Thus I long for this competition to be different. like put a damage minimum and not a living min. Then my play style would be boss. Apart from this weekend I hover around 600 damage and 3 kills when in my lights. When in other mechs... well I only play them for leveling and funsies.

[Smoked]

Eonai, on 15 January 2015 - 06:27 PM, said:

I like the admission to the change in tactics. Good to know the massive forum outrcry wasn't ignored.

At least now I don't have to hesitate anymore. Charge forward, and glory to the victors!

Weird, I don't understand why people would complain about a CHALLENGE to get something FREE. It is a challenge not a giveaway. Also getting 1 kill isn't that hard. Assists are almost automatic, you just have to tap someone with a laser. Win rate on average is going to be about 49%.

It would be a difficult challenge if you were required to get at least 6000 exp for the match, including all bonuses. Or if you were required to earn $350K+ cbills per match. But still very attainable for much of the population.

[Void2258]

The problem with the challenge is that it puts teams in competition WITH EACHOTHER. For those playing more for the challenge than anything else, a match isn't worth trying to win UNTIL you get a kill because it won't count. That means that people aren't playing to win until they get that first kill, and are playing against their own teammates until then. It also makes it more practical to suicide and move on to the next match than to try to win if you take large amounts of damage, since your chances of getting a kill go down the more damaged you are (especially once you lose any weapons). And it encourages shooting through teammates to get a kill, resulting in a massive spike in teamkills and in rare instances the occurrence of groups purposefully killing their PUG teammates in order to increase the chance that they will get kills. It also encourages smaller scale bad play like players using all their LRMs or AC/20 ammo as quickly as possible on any available target in hopes of scoring a kill rather than saving for priority targets, including spray-and-pray behavior with weapons that you wouldn't normally do that with (generally followed by suicide as soon as ammo is depleted if a kill wasn't scored). It overall makes the entire gameplay experience much worse.

Edited by Void2258, 18 January 2015 - 09:17 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Void2258, on 18 January 2015 - 09:16 AM, said:

The problem with the challenge is that it puts teams in competition WITH EACHOTHER. For those playing more for the challenge than anything else, a match isn't worth trying to win UNTIL you get a kill because it won't count.

and this is the fail thinking in peoples mind, and the reaosn why many struggle

Gumon Choji, on 18 January 2015 - 08:43 AM, said:

I think this is an interesting challenge but it is time intensive. It also is for the competitive free players and not the new players. Thus it is good but I wish it was not on this weekend when I am off of work I wanted to see more new players.

Lets explore.
We are set to win about 40% of the time if you pug. It is the math to make up for large groups. If you win more then this alone you are actually an amazing player.

To win a game you will average 10 min in the game.

For kills you should average about 1.1 kill to death. This is to say if both teams killed everyone then it would be 1 to 1. So someone will live. Also some games you should get over 2 kills. this makes it so you will be playing a long time for the mech. And today kill stealing and defensive play rule most groups. because when you win about one in four will survive on average. That is 3 mechs.

1/4 live 1/2 win = 1/8 points
8 games per win times 10 min per game. 80 min.
Round it down if you are good. to 1 hour per win
30 wins by one hour each is 30 hours.

You will invest 30 hours.

This is not bad but know what this is for. This competition is for players skilled enough to kill and live. It is for free players who are experienced. Thus the new players play like fools to stand a chance. It makes new players see just how much of a gap they have in skill and become frustrated. Just look at the number of players who said they needed to take a break from a game. This competition is to get free based players to play and make the competitive players feel good. This weekend is a way to get people playing hard. 3 days premium time is there to show players how much they could make and try to minimize the rage of players over how difficult the competition is. Players will be up 40% cbills because they are a free players.

I always have all the financial bonuses on. Hero, premium and what not. Even the prize is neat but not a draw. though I like the other players. However the play style for this competition got me from 3 kills a match to very few. See I rely on my team pushing when I strike. The fear of dieing has made players not push. crushing my play style. Thus I long for this competition to be different. like put a damage minimum and not a living min. Then my play style would be boss. Apart from this weekend I hover around 600 damage and 3 kills when in my lights. When in other mechs... well I only play them for leveling and funsies.

strange math, I did all 30 in 9 and a half hour, most amtches last shorther, between 5 and 7,5 minutes.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

Got it..

[Void2258]

80 matches 16 points.

[Deadeeye]

74 games and I'm finally done. Need to get back to Life now.