465 replies to this topic

[TercieI]

There are very few lights.

Most of the lights there are are Firestarters.

Sounds to me like other lights need buffs rather than Firestarters needing nerfs.

[Insects]

Kodiak Jorgensson, on 18 January 2015 - 05:50 AM, said:

engine cap nerf would be cool, maybe it will fix the hit reg issues that it seems to be able to abuse so easily, 260 engine for 120-130KPH should still be a good top peed for the firestarter.

Sounds rubbish, limit lights to 130 and perhaps the lights queue will break into the sub 1% zone.

170kph is just a number, the actual speed robot things run around the screen and change direction in this game is slower than a lot of soldier FPS games.

[Green Mamba]

Right...Nerf all the IS Mechs that become competitive with the Clan Mechs...good Idea that will keep MWOs population in good health

[Davegt27]

Like I said before if they nerf the Firestarter then the IS won’t have a (or one less) good Mech for CW

Russ also said they won’t touch the Firestarter at this time

[Mardek]

its not the firestarter builds or quirks, its the firestarter hitboxes! I mostly play light mechs and i can tell you that the FS could withstand more damage than an Atlas.

Its a matter of hitbox and hit registration. The jenner dies because of the big center torso it haves 99% of the time, while the firestarters torsi are very difficult to take down

Edited by Mardek, 18 January 2015 - 07:34 AM.

[Xythius]

No, it is not.

There is nothing wrong with or about OP the FS9. It is a powerful light 'mech, yet that is also the drawback - it is a light 'mech. Sure, there are some hit-reg issues, but (if you listen to the chicken littles on the forums), there are hit-reg issues everywhere.

It is also hard to do well in. To be good in an FS9, you have to be on the ball, all the time. It is by no means an 'I win' button.

[Johnny Z]

I guess they are going to raise the strength of all the mechs to some sort of level viability then maybe make a change to mechanics like more internals or the ability to swap out weapons for more armor. Both these ideas I have seen lately in topics and sound interesting. It appears to make sense. I just hope they get a solid balance down soon.

Edited by Johnny Z, 18 January 2015 - 07:35 AM.

[Mad Strike]

Jimmy Page, on 18 January 2015 - 04:37 AM, said:

When 90% of the lights are Firestarters, it should tell you something. They have the speed of a light with jumpjets and the firepower of mediums. They also have borked hit boxes the way the Spider used to. I'm sure the Firestarter pilots will say "stop whining, we have skill". I say pilot something else and see how well you do. Everyone knows your precious light is broken. PGI, fix please. The sooner the better.

Sounds like you've been killed by lights a lot. Just ask your team lights to cover your ass and it will be fine.....that or get yourselve a pair of streak SRMs.

They're energy boats , 35 tons like a jenner but with arms......that makes it the premium IS mech by default and a buff/nerf never changed that.

Edited by strikebrch, 18 January 2015 - 07:40 AM.

[TyphonCh]

Kilo 40, on 18 January 2015 - 05:34 AM, said:

effective build =/= broken balance

You're totally missing the point.
Pre-quirk, you would have NEVER dreamed about putting 8spl on a firestarter. It was all about mediums and mg's. And that was fine.
It's easy to balance something by making it overpowered. And that's exactly what they did to the A' and K's.
How do you justify an A or K variant getting unreal quirks, while the Ember, considered 'Teir 1' gets SFA? The Ember and H variants can't even compete now.
What's the point of making these once stagnant chassis so overwhelming that other chassis are completely ignored?
FYI, I mastered my firestarters shen the Ember was released. Of course, I don't own either the A or K. All 3 of my firestarters feel worthless now. I built them around my specific play style and it was fun. Not so much now.
For the most part the quirk pass faired extemely well. The thunderbolt and firestarters are the bad apples in my opinion.

Edited by Team Chevy86, 18 January 2015 - 07:53 AM.

[Golden Vulf]

Kilo 40, on 18 January 2015 - 04:57 AM, said:

It says that it is a popular, and a good mech.

being popular and good is not a reason to make it less good and less popular.

Everyone should remember this the next time they are in a Timberwolf thread.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 18 January 2015 - 07:50 AM.

[Bulletsponge0]

FS9's are broken right now...they simply don't take damage the way they should

[MauttyKoray]

Jimmy Page, on 18 January 2015 - 04:37 AM, said:

When 90% of the lights are Firestarters, it should tell you something. They have the speed of a light with jumpjets and the firepower of mediums. They also have borked hit boxes the way the Spider used to. I'm sure the Firestarter pilots will say "stop whining, we have skill". I say pilot something else and see how well you do. Everyone knows your precious light is broken. PGI, fix please. The sooner the better.

Honestly I can deal with its speed, I can deal with its firepower (its supposed to have pretty decent firepower for a light due to its design) but what I can't deal with is hitting the thing with 10-30 damage and seeing it register maybe 5, while standing still.

[Impossible Wasabi]

The Space Pope thinks that perhaps the Firestarter could use a fix, much like the Stormcrow in regards to it's hitboxes, but other than that it isn't particularly bad (although it could perhaps use some requirking or looking at).

The lack of variety in the light mech class is mostly due to:

1) a small number of light mech pilots
2) few useful light mechs because at the moment there is little reason to use anything other than a Firestarter (A and H), Jenner (F or Oxide), Huginn, Raven 3L for ECM. (Most of the other variants or chassis are sub-par and while fun are not anywhere near as efficient)
3) Sales/New Factor, new mechs on sales often end up becoming pretty well-used

Edited by The True Space Pope, 18 January 2015 - 08:10 AM.

[Golden Vulf]

The True Space Pope, on 18 January 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

The Space Pope thinks that perhaps the Firestarter could use a fix, much like the Stormcrow in regards to it's hitboxes, but other than that it isn't particularly bad.

The lack of variety in the light mech class is mostly due to:

1) a small number of light mech pilots
2) few useful light mechs, at the moment there is little reason to use anything other than a Firestarter, Jenner (F or Oxide), Huginn, Raven 3L for ECM, and maybe a Spider with 5D if you want to be silly.

I always see people reference the low number of Firestarters and lights in general as a reason have them remain untouched.

You know, there are relelatively few people setting fire to orphanages in america. It's not really a problem, so we should just let arsonists go about their business.

[LowSubmarino]

Haha, yeah definitely. If you think its easy to own with a firestarter, then play one. I have oneshotted lights left and right even if they zigzagged madly, jjjumped around and twisted like a chicken on fire.

One mistake and piffpaff you are dead bro.

And like some ppl said, just because the firestarter has the potential to be great, doesnt mean that it should be nerfed.

A good pilot will be lethal in a firestarter. A bad pilot will die instantly after one mistake.

To get good results you need to constantly and effectively engage and disengage - often times at brawling distances - without taking damage. You will have to do that over and over again, without a single mistake that would allow most mechs to unleash a single precise alpha.

Especially in pug games, where heavy and assault mechs are frequently left behind with no cover, lights will exploit any lose ends. Most light mechs are abysmal and have no chance to dish out any kind of dmg or even effectively disengange, as they are too slow or dont pack any kind of firepower whatsoever.

Nerf the firestarter and you will have even less ppl piloting lights. Firestarters go down super quick if somebody actually knows how to aim. A lot of ppl I see wildly splash their lasers in the general direction and dont hit anything. Least of all a fast moving target. A lot of ppl's aim is so incredibly poor, that they shoot for minute after minute and simply dont hit a fast moving mech.

Play against good teams and you will realize that there's no weakness in their formation. Getting to brawling distances to dish out your dmg, lets say in the firestarter A, wil become infinitely harder.

If the team stays together and enjoys los-cover from its teammembers, a firestarter is as good as useless, until things get mixed up a bit.

In every second game I see lights rushing the tail of a pug team to have an easy time with mechs that are consequently left behind. I see that again and again. And then over again. Even though it would be pathetically easy for a team to completly stop this strategy's effectiveness, basically completly nullifying lights' effectiveness in a given scenario.

Instead they brainlessly wander about, singlemindedly rushing in a random direction, while losing mech after mech after mech in the back.

If you die to a light, it is your team's and your own fault. Lights have to engage at close/medium ranges usually. A team that covers each other and stays together is virtually impervious to such tactics.

All a light can do then is to stay back, spot (carefully) and wait. It cannot dish out any kind of dmg without getting a huge load of return fire.

I have seen groups of 2 - 3 locusts kill entire lances of assaults that were trailing a few hundred meters behind the main group. Even in range of said group, but they failed to realize the threat and didnt react. Even the assaults themselves could have turned around and help the guy dying 200 meters behind them. But they stoically ran on, completly ignoring or failing to see, what was happening right behind them.

That they would be the next target 10 seconds later, didnt seem to bother them. Or they simply failed to intelectually understand what was actually happening and what would happen in mere moments.

They just walk on.

Thats why lights are effective in the first place. Present an iron wall and they are repelled with ease.

the jenner isnt as popular because it gets cored pathetically easily. The raven's legs are abysmal and spiders haven virtually no firepower, even though they are much more durable. Locusts can be effective in the hands of really good players. A lot of ppl dont want to die after 1 - 2 hits so they dont play locusts.

And clan lights are way too slow and only have a place when weight issues are a factor.

The firestarter is one of the rare lights that has good hitboxes, speed, firepower and mobility. There simply arent much more viable options. Just look at how few ppl play lights.

Nerf the firestarter and you will hardly ever see lights in a game. Most of the lights are firestarters, yes. But without the firestarter most of those pilots would choose heavier mechs.

And among those firestarters not many actually do good. Just watch the scores after a game. Most just die without doing anything.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Golden Vulf, on 18 January 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

I always see people reference the low number of Firestarters and lights in general as a reason have them remain untouched.

You know, there are relelatively few people setting fire to orphanages in america. It's not really a problem, so we should just let arsonists go about their business.

You misunderstand the point the Space Pope is trying to make.

When you reduce the number of any class of mechs, you will also see far less variety of mechs, because you have far less players using said class.

Again, the Space Pope is not arguing the lack of light pilots means that light mechs should not be changed but rather that because you are looking at one of the smaller classes of mechs in the game, you shouldn't be surprised that there isn't as much variety in what people use.

The point of the Space Pope's argument is rather that it is not a good argument against the Firestarter to offer the opinion that it is "too popular" given the three reasons the Space Pope included in his original post (small light mech player pop, lack of other useful light mechs, recent sale on Firestarters).

Edited by The True Space Pope, 18 January 2015 - 08:16 AM.

[Mad Strike]

MauttyKoray, on 18 January 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

Honestly I can deal with its speed, I can deal with its firepower (its supposed to have pretty decent firepower for a light due to its design) but what I can't deal with is hitting the thing with 10-30 damage and seeing it register maybe 5, while standing still.

If it's lasers: speed+ small hitboxes = disperse damage

If it's pinpoint and still having problems then might be your weapons convergence , lead the target usually fix that. But is better to place those pinpoint weapons on the same component (arm , torso...) so they come out grouped from the firing point into the target.

Edited by strikebrch, 18 January 2015 - 08:16 AM.

[Davegt27]

I bit my lip since during the town hall the point was made if they nerf the firestarters’ do the also nerf the Stormcrows and the Timberwolves?

So it’s not a simple answer
Is the goal to make all IS Mechs worthless can’t they have one decent Mech?
I don't own any Firestarters but I resist the tendency to cry about someone else’s Mech

I would be like give me this and this and my Raven will give that Firestarter a run for its money

[Mad Strike]

Davegt27, on 18 January 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

I bit my lip since during the town hall the point was made if they nerf the firestarters’ do the also nerf the Stormcrows and the Timberwolves?

So it’s not a simple answer
Is the goal to make all IS Mechs worthless can’t they have one decent Mech?
I don't own any Firestarters but I resist the tendency to cry about someone else’s Mech

I would be like give me this and this and my Raven will give that Firestarter a run for its money

It's not that the stormcrow and timberwolf needs nerfs but fixes for their side torsos.

[Darian DelFord]

Simple fix, buff the damn CT of the jenners either structure or armor, and I bet you will see more of them. Currently the Jenner is outclassed by the FS, it has nothing to do with the weapons load out, it has everything to do with spreading damage.