465 replies to this topic

[Bawbagzz]

I tried the firestarter but I just didn't like it and I have no problem killing them in my Hunchy G.I really don't know what the fuss is all about.

[Mavairo]

Fix the Jenner's ******* ****** ********* *****ing ********* omfg ****** glass ***** CT.

Fix the Ravens ******* ****** WTF IS WRONG WITH THIS GAME THE BULLET WENT PAST MY *******ing LEGS NOT ON THEM legs.

....I'm not even sure where to start on the Locust, cause it's still laughable. I only field them in CW to make room for my Atlas, and Double Dragons.

Firestarter isn't broken, it's that the other light mechs, just Suck. And Suck HARD.
I don't own a Firestarter, for the record. I'm a Heavy and Assault guy mostly. I have Jenners, and Locusts, and I very very rarely pilot them outside of CW because frankly...they're terrible.

Edited by Mavairo, 18 January 2015 - 11:18 AM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

When you put a shot on a Firestarter that would otherwise cripple any assault, and its armor doesn't even turn red, I think it just gets old.

Its not that these lights are excessively OP, but that fact that they shrug off damage like that is annoying.

[FupDup]

If we absolutely "had" to nerf them somehow, the most I could accept is simply revoking their positive quirks so that they are left as a quirkless "blank slate." That would be as far as I'd allow. No actual negative quirks, nada.

[Brody319]

FupDup, on 18 January 2015 - 11:19 AM, said:

If we absolutely "had" to nerf them somehow, the most I could accept is simply revoking their positive quirks so that they are left as a quirkless "blank slate." That would be as far as I'd allow. No actual negative quirks, nada.

I doubt that would fix it very much. SPLs have no ghost heat and generate very little heat anyway. they are only getting about 10% less heat. It would still be able to rip up any mech from behind.

[Impossible Wasabi]

MauttyKoray, on 18 January 2015 - 09:01 AM, said:

There's plenty of useful light mechs, but the outliers are TOO useful is the problem. Why take a speedy locust or commando when you can take a Firestarter that almost never dies.?

Disagree, it's not that the outliers are too useful, it's that they are the only useful ones.

There isn't a single reason, other than doing it for the lolz, to use a locust or a commando instead of an ECM Raven, Firestarter (A/H), or an Oxide (for all that SRM goodness).

You want an ECM light mech? The Raven 3L is the best.

You want hit and run mech with an insane alpha? The Oxide is gold.

You want to have good damage over time and be able to slam people for not paying attention? Firestarter wins.

Everything else is mostly useful only when you want to mess around or challenge yourself through handicap mechs.

Edited by The True Space Pope, 18 January 2015 - 11:30 AM.

[FupDup]

Brody319, on 18 January 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

I doubt that would fix it very much. SPLs have no ghost heat and generate very little heat anyway. they are only getting about 10% less heat. It would still be able to rip up any mech from behind.

Small Pulse Lasers were almost useless prior to the Quirkening's Pulse Laser buffs. The weapon itself isn't overpowered, it's now finally viable in niche roles. Only a handful of masochistic Lolcust pilots used the SPL before November...

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 18 January 2015 - 11:19 AM, said:

If we absolutely "had" to nerf them somehow, the most I could accept is simply revoking their positive quirks so that they are left as a quirkless "blank slate." That would be as far as I'd allow. No actual negative quirks, nada.

Well, the Firestarter-S is a bit more crazy that what most people are considering (compare that to any other Light mech, like the Jenner-K that has "similar quirks" - you'll see how over the top it can be).

Of course, there's no purpose of the Firestarter-H at that point (2 MGs? hahahahahaha *sadface*).

[Ultimax]

Brody319, on 18 January 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

I doubt that would fix it very much. SPLs have no ghost heat and generate very little heat anyway. they are only getting about 10% less heat. It would still be able to rip up any mech from behind.

8 TONS of SPLs only do as much Alpha damage as 6 TONS of MLAS and only do it to 148m on the mech with quirks for it with a T5 range mod.

This, combined with the physical location of the hardpoints (around the waistline) forces you to poke more often, at closer ranges.

SPLs don't need ghost heat, they are a weak weapon that are so bad they are only really viable on mechs that have quirks for them.

IMO the A isn't even the best all around Firestarter.

[Ultimax]

Deathlike, on 18 January 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

Well, the Firestarter-S is a bit more crazy that what most people are considering (compare that to any other Light mech, like the Jenner-K that has "similar quirks" - you'll see how over the top it can be).

Of course, there's no purpose of the Firestarter-H at that point (2 MGs? hahahahahaha *sadface*).

Honestly I think they got many of the Jenner quirks wrong.

The primary advantage base Jenners have over Firestarters is their high mounted weapons - if you can see it, then you can shoot it.


This lends them to hill poking much better than Firestarters who need to expose more of themselves, but due to physical design Firestarters better at protecting their torso by spreading damage onto arms (so, better at brawling) compared to Jenners (better at hill poking) with that ridiculous protruding CT.


I think the Jenner-F could use a 7.5% MLAS specific range quirk in addition to it's 7.5% generic energy range quirk then it would poke a little further with better mounts than the FS9-H but would also run a touch hotter, so some give and take between them.

The Jenner K could also use either another MPL range boost or a high CD boost to it's 4x MPLs so it would have better DPS or better range with less weapons but a lower alpha than the potential of the FS9-S.


Ultimately the Jenners got a little screwed because of their slightly more optimal engine size and their high mounted weapons and their formerly high tier JR7-F brother - but lights in general aren't in such a strong place that generally well designed lights like Jenners should just be skipped over almost entirely when it comes to quirks.

If that means we have to quirk the bad lights like commandos and locusts a bit harder, then so be it. They are not now and are not ever likely to be seriously competitive mechs that people take in droves, they could stand with a bit of love to at least make playing them not mostly a liability to yourself & team.




The queue is very often now showing 20-30% mediums, heavies or assaults depending on the day - and lights are continually sub 10%.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 18 January 2015 - 01:23 PM.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 18 January 2015 - 11:19 AM, said:

If we absolutely "had" to nerf them somehow, the most I could accept is simply revoking their positive quirks so that they are left as a quirkless "blank slate." That would be as far as I'd allow. No actual negative quirks, nada.

And then go back to none of them being played except for the Ember again?

No thanks, all of the Firestarters except for the K actually have a role right now.

They are one of the few standouts of their class, where almost every variant has some particular niche it excels best in (similar to an extent like Stalkers).

They all received decent, and moderate quirks with good differentiation amongst the variants (especially once they got rid of the dumb ERLLAS quirks on the S that made no sense).

FS9-A: Best short range brawl/DPS
FS9-S: Best all around combination of DPS, Alpha, Range
FS9-H: Best range and poke ability
FS9-E: Slightly worse off vs. the first 3, but still the best on hot maps & good at exploiting stripped armor

Edited by Ultimatum X, 18 January 2015 - 12:18 PM.

[FupDup]

Ultimatum X, on 18 January 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

And then go back to none of them being played except for the Ember again?

No thanks, all of the Firestarters except for the K actually have a role right now.

They are one of the few standouts of their class, where almost every variant has some particular niche it excels best in (similar to an extent like Stalkers).

FS9-A: Best short range brawl/DPS
FS9-S: Best all around combination of DPS, Alpha, Range
FS9-H: Best range and poke ability
FS9-E: Slightly worse off vs. the first 3, but still the best on hot maps & good at exploiting stripped armor

Note that I had the word "had" in quotation marks, which was meant to imply that it was more of a "compromise" or last resort if for some reason the nerf bad would get swung. It wasn't meant to imply that I wanted a nerf to happen (because in this case, I don't).

It was mostly to avoid really stupid changes that some people seem to want, like making their CT gigantic or giving them Raven leg hitboxes that extend beyond the physical model, or giving heat to the Small Pulse Laser. Or any other number of bad ideas...

Edited by FupDup, 18 January 2015 - 12:18 PM.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 18 January 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

It was mostly to avoid really stupid changes that some people seem to want...

We do not negotiate with terrorists or nerfherders.

[dezgra]

I say leave the firestarter alone and buff/perk the commando and mist lynx.

[Brody319]

dezgra, on 18 January 2015 - 12:23 PM, said:

I say leave the firestarter alone and buff/perk the commando and mist lynx.

what are you insane?! Clans are Overpowered, everyone knows that. what we need to do is nerf the lynx and all the other clans!

[Xetelian]

Why would we nerf light mechs? They're only 5% of the queue to begin with...

[dario03]

Jimmy Page, on 18 January 2015 - 04:37 AM, said:

When 90% of the lights are Firestarters, it should tell you something. They have the speed of a light with jumpjets and the firepower of mediums. They also have borked hit boxes the way the Spider used to. I'm sure the Firestarter pilots will say "stop whining, we have skill". I say pilot something else and see how well you do. Everyone knows your precious light is broken. PGI, fix please. The sooner the better.

Anybody that is good in a Firestarter should be able to be good in a Jenner. The only issue is the Jenner's CT is messed up and magnetically attracts damage to it. But even with that some people preferred the Jenner.
Also I don't have the stats but I'm pretty sure the firestarter does not make up 90% of lights dropping. And if some how it was that would be because the other lights should be better.

[Deathlike]

Ultimatum X, on 18 January 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

Honestly I think they got many of the Jenner quirks wrong.

The primary advantage base Jenners have over Firestarters is their high mounted weapons - if you can see it, then you can shoot it.


This lends them to hill poking much better than Firestarters who need to expose more of themselves, but due to physical design tend to be better at protecting their torso by spreading damage onto arms (so, brawling) compared to Jenners with that ridiculous protruding CT.


I think the Jenner-F could use a 7.5% MLAS specific quirk in addition to it's 7.5% generic energy range quirk (then it would poke a little further with better mounts than the FS9-H but would also run a touch hotter, so some give and take between them), and the K could also use either another range boost or a high CD boost to it's 4x MPLs (so it would have better DPS with less weapons but a lower alpha than the potential of the FS9-S).


Ultimately the Jenners got a little screwed because of their slightly more optimal engine size and their high mounted weapons and their formerly high tier JR7-F brother - but lights in general aren't in such a strong place that generally well designed lights like Jenners should just be skipped over almost entirely when it comes to quirks.

If that means we have to quirk the bad lights like commandos and locusts a bit harder, then so be it. They are not now and are not ever likely to be seriously competitive mechs that people take in droves, they could stand with a bit of love to at least make playing them not mostly a liability to yourself & team.




The queue is very often now showing 20-30% mediums, heavies or assaults depending on the day - and lights are continually sub 10%.

Yes... Firestarter nerfs for a Light queue that consistently falls under 10%. I love the logic that spews from people.

The Jenner's arms aren't actually optimal for protecting the mech (your firepower primarily comes through them), but exceptional vision and high arms are the benefits over the Firestarter.

I do think the Jenner buffs are far less effective compared to the Firestarter... which really says a bit more on the balancing side than anything else really.

Ultimatum X, on 18 January 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

We do not negotiate with terrorists or nerfherders.

He still works @ PGI...

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 18 January 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

He still works @ PGI...

He watches you when you sleep, keeping his Mighty Nerfgun oiled and loaded for when he will take his revenge upon all of humanity.

[Lily from animove]

Brody319, on 18 January 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

what are you insane?! Clans are Overpowered, everyone knows that. what we need to do is nerf the lynx and all the other clans!

wow this never gets old xD

I make a MLX, see its tennis racket arm and think: WTF; NOOOOOOOOO, *chooses other mech*

and playing it literally feels handicaped because of this