465 replies to this topic

[Ursh]

Once again I'll take the unpopular stand and say that I'm completely okay with seeing fewer 150kph energy boat lights in the game.

People say they're backstabbers...but that's not really using the word correctly. In games with rogues, which popularized the gaming concept of the backstab, once the rogue blew their stealth to backstab, they had to fight like normal afterwards. In MWO, it's more like backstab times 2 or 3, and then run behind cover at 150kph to cool down...dishing out bigger alphas than most jagermechs and cataphracts, while only needing 17% of total mech weight to do so. Max armor, couple of jump jets for maneuvering, max engine, and then blow a 1-3 tons on extra DHS.

The big reason more people aren't using lights is somewhat related to the same reason they're not playing COD.

[Ultimax]

Deathlike, on 18 January 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

Yes... Firestarter nerfs for a Light queue that consistently falls under 10%. I love the logic that spews from people.

The Jenner's arms aren't actually optimal for protecting the mech (your firepower primarily comes through them), but exceptional vision and high arms are the benefits over the Firestarter.

I do think the Jenner buffs are far less effective compared to the Firestarter... which really says a bit more on the balancing side than anything else really.




He still works @ PGI...

Sorry I meant the Firestarter's arms are better at protecting it's torsos making it the better brawler, the Jenner's arms are terrible at it but they are high mounted and allow for better hill poking ( which lets you protect most of the mech).

I'll reformat what I typed so it's clearer.

[kapusta11]

Yes, nerf one of the few light with decent firepower that can survive a pair of dual gauss/dual PPC/AC20 shots, as long as they hit different sections.

Edited by kapusta11, 18 January 2015 - 01:29 PM.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Ursh, on 18 January 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

The big reason more people aren't using lights is somewhat related to the same reason they're not playing COD.

"The big reason more people aren't using lights is somewhat related to an inability to accept dying in one shot or two."

Fixed, you can thank the Space Pope with a donation to the Space Vatican.

[Ultimax]

kapusta11, on 18 January 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

Yes, nerf one of the few light with decent firepower that can survive a pair of dual gauss shots, as long as they hit different sections.

No joke.

I used to have invincible insanely broken hitboxes, until I took a dual gauss to the LT.

[InspectorG]

Is this another, 'nerf the thing that kills me' thread?

Shoot their legs. Before and after they overheat.

[Lily from animove]

InspectorG, on 18 January 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

Is this another, 'nerf the thing that kills me' thread?

Shoot their legs. Before and after they overheat.

you have not seen hitreg in vacations, haven't you? it hardly matters where you shoot only a fraction does actually register and even on shut down or standing FS's I unlaoded fully vollyes of lasers and it had nearly no effect.

[Ultimax]

Lily from animove, on 18 January 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

you have not seen hitreg in vacations, haven't you? it hardly matters where you shoot only a fraction does actually register and even on shut down or standing FS's I unlaoded fully vollyes of lasers and it had nearly no effect.

Enough anecdotes from posters like yourself and others.


Please start posting evidence, there are plenty of free ways to record or stream your gaming experience.


It also allows us, the audience to see just what exactly you are doing when you "unload full volleys" into them and there is "no effect".

Edited by Ultimatum X, 18 January 2015 - 01:51 PM.

[InspectorG]

Lily from animove, on 18 January 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

you have not seen hitreg in vacations, haven't you? it hardly matters where you shoot only a fraction does actually register and even on shut down or standing FS's I unlaoded fully vollyes of lasers and it had nearly no effect.

I have Time Warner Cable.

[Ultimax]

This is simple.

If you believe there is a real issue, please record evidence.

I am always willing to listen to or watch evidence to support claims, I am cynical and skeptical when players use anecdotes and personal experience that is prone to subjective & perception bias.



If you are really dedicated, you can also try to show us that this is really "broken hit boxes" on the Firestarter, by supporting with evidence of you repeatedly and easily vaporizing other non-easy to wreck lights (i.e. not ones with humongous CTs or bad leg hitboxes).

Edited by Ultimatum X, 18 January 2015 - 03:29 PM.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Ultimatum X, on 18 January 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

This is simple.
If you believe their is a real issue, please record evidence.
I am always willing to listen to or watch evidence to support claims, I am cynical and skeptical when players use anecdotes and personal experience that is prone to subjective & perception bias.
If you are really dedicated, you can also try to show us that this is really "broken hit boxes" on the Firestarter, by supporting with evidence of you repeatedly and easily vaporizing other non-easy to wreck lights (i.e. not ones with humongous CTs or bad leg hitboxes).

No proof is needed, and the evidence you request isn't reliable anyway. We simply need people observer and report the problem, like we are doing in this thread. Can you imagine if the police demanded proof before starting and investigation? "Sorry maam, without a bullet we cannot confirm you were robbed at gunpoint, case closed". The proof comes after the investigation, which is performed by PGI, at the behest of the player-base.

Can you imagine how broken this game would be if the game relied on player based investigations, and made changes based on those instead of actual facts and telemetry?

Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 18 January 2015 - 02:30 PM.

[kapusta11]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 18 January 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:

Can you imagine how broken this game would be if the game relied on player based investigations, and made changes based on those instead of actual facts and telemetry?

Oh the irony.

[Ultimax]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 18 January 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:

No proof is needed, and the evidence you request isn't reliable anyway. We simply need people observer and report the problem, like we are doing in this thread. Can you imagine if the police demanded proof before starting and investigation? "Sorry maam, without a bullet we cannot confirm you were robbed at gunpoint, case closed". The proof comes after the investigation, which is performed by PGI, at the behest of the player-base.

1) That's nonsense, these aren't felonies. These are posters making claims to things other posters are telling them isn't there.

If you want to make a claim using whatever anecdote you feel like cooking up, you should be prepared to back it up with evidence if you want to convince your fellow players.

2) PGI has recently reviewed and adjusted Firestarter hitboxes. So I guess it's been investigated, changes made and case closed.

[maxdest]

Not sure this is a firestarter issue, rather than a general de-synch issue that seems to randomly crop up due to Jump jets and collisions.

Like all de-sychs this is emphasised by fast speed and small size, and the mech weilding 30+ point alphas (i.e. Firestarter) is the object of more ire than lighter armed mechs.

[Lily from animove]

Ultimatum X, on 18 January 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

1) That's nonsense, these aren't felonies. These are posters making claims to things other posters are telling them isn't there.

If you want to make a claim using whatever anecdote you feel like cooking up, you should be prepared to back it up with evidence if you want to convince your fellow players.

2) PGI has recently reviewed and adjusted Firestarter hitboxes. So I guess it's been investigated, changes made and case closed.

sry you hardly get an situation to catch someone in a said mech totally unaware, but however took me 2 matches to find something fishy going on.

I give you 14 secs of 0,1x slowmow.



and what dow e see? I am on the hunch all the time firing lasers, yet the crosshair hitindicator (which is responded by the server) shortly goes back to blue (at 7 secs). Meaning the server told me I was not hitting anything. And knowing that the red hitindicator after a hit stays for a short time, means I already lost some damage, mostlikely of those 2 lasers I shot before/are currently beaming.

all mechs have hitreg issues tbh, but firestarters exceed in this so far they are dodging damage to an absolutely exploit like degree.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 January 2015 - 03:12 PM.

[kapusta11]

Lily from animove, on 18 January 2015 - 03:08 PM, said:

sry you hardly get an situation to catch someone in a said mech totally unaware, but however took me 2 matches to find something fishy going on.

I give you 14 secs of 0,1x slowmow.



and what dow e see? I am on the hunch all the time firing lasers, yet the crosshair hitindicator (which is responded by the server) shortly goes back to blue (at 7 secs). Meaning the server told me I was not hitting anything. And knowing that the red hitindicator after a hit stays for a short time, means I already lost some damage, mostlikely of those 2 lasers I shot before/are currently beaming.

all mechs have hitreg issues tbh, but firestarters exceed in this so far they are dodging damage to an absolutely exploit like degree.

No wonder you can't hit **** with that kind of lag.

[Lily from animove]

kapusta11, on 18 January 2015 - 03:26 PM, said:

No wonder you can't hit **** with that kind of lag.

BOAH thats the video slowed down to 0,1 speed thats not the true speed. I wrote that above even, its just to visualise you what in a very unnoticeable moment of livespeed happens.

[Ultimax]

Lily from animove, on 18 January 2015 - 03:08 PM, said:

all mechs have hitreg issues tbh, but firestarters exceed in this so far they are dodging damage to an absolutely exploit like degree.

If you want to make a hitreg thread, make a hitreg thread.

I have no qualms with people upset with hit reg issues, it affects all of us.


This thread is about people wanting to nerf the Firestarter and that it has "insanely broken hitboxes", using their personal anecdotes to support it instead of actual evidence - even post PGI reviewing and adjusting Firestarter hitboxes recently.

[Lily from animove]

Ultimatum X, on 18 January 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

If you want to make a hitreg thread, make a hitreg thread.

I have no qualms with people upset with hit reg issues, it affects all of us.


This thread is about people wanting to nerf the Firestarter and that it has "insanely broken hitboxes", using their personal anecdotes to support it instead of actual evidence - even post PGI reviewing and adjusting Firestarter hitboxes recently.

the issue is, many poeple don't know much about why is what happening, they just see as most of us, firestarters swarming for 30 seconds between 6 people and disappearing. you see firestarters mostly being the ones alive left at the near and of a round. so it most be op and nerfed.
Yet hardly anyone does know what the issue is, and the only issue is the hitreg. So yes it belongs into the FS topic, because I doubt the FS would be op if hitreg works, it would die like jenners or locusts, who for example do this rather normally.

And so its important to point people wanting that nerf the real issue to make them want the true problem fixed. We don't need another hitreg topic, we have enough and PGI surely knows the issue.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 January 2015 - 03:38 PM.

[BourbonFaucet]

How about instead of nerfing the Firestarter, we go back and laterally change the quirks so that they don't favor one specific weapon. I can almost guarantee you that if the quirks were for general energy weapons instead of small pulse lasers, you'd see a greater variety of firestarter builds.

It seems as if quirks have really shifted 'mechs away from their intended roles and loadouts and shoved them into cheesy cookie cutter forms. The firestarter and thunderbolt 9s could both use quirk sidegrades (changes that don't nerf the unit but don't buff it either or make for just one good build).