465 replies to this topic

[Green Mamba]

Team Chevy86, on 18 January 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

You're totally missing the point.
Pre-quirk, you would have NEVER dreamed about putting 8spl on a firestarter. It was all about mediums and mg's. And that was fine.
It's easy to balance something by making it overpowered. And that's exactly what they did to the A' and K's.
How do you justify an A or K variant getting unreal quirks, while the Ember, considered 'Teir 1' gets SFA? The Ember and H variants can't even compete now.
What's the point of making these once stagnant chassis so overwhelming that other chassis are completely ignored?
FYI, I mastered my firestarters shen the Ember was released. Of course, I don't own either the A or K. All 3 of my firestarters feel worthless now. I built them around my specific play style and it was fun. Not so much now.
For the most part the quirk pass faired extemely well. The thunderbolt and firestarters are the bad apples in my opinion.

This right here is proof that people don't read the quirks Page ,the K has the Least amount of quirks


FS9-A SMALL PULSE LASER RANGE: 7.50 % ENERGY RANGE: 7.50 % ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -10.00 % EMBER LASER DURATION: -7.50 % BALLISTIC RANGE: 7.50 % FS9-H MEDIUM LASER HEAT GENERATION: -7.50 % ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -7.50 % ENERGY RANGE: 10.00 % FS9-K LASER DURATION: -10.00 % ENERGY RANGE: 10.00 % FS9-S MEDIUM PULSE LASER HEAT GENERATION: -15.00 % ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -15.00 % FS9-S(C) MEDIUM PULSE LASER HEAT GENERATION: -15.00 % ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -15.00 %

I have seen this time and time
again...

Edited by Green Mamba, 18 January 2015 - 08:26 AM.

[occusoj]

The FS needs no nerfs. Most of all, it needs fixes.
In terms of damage it deals its a bit on the high end but ok with me since it needs to get in very close.

The damage it receives is ridiculously low. Hitreg currently is bad with all mechs but something is especially broken with the FS. One can blast them with abnormal ammounts of damage and they survive, even when shutdown or standing still.
I dont even bother shooting moving ones except wit streaks. You have to lead them (with lasers!) but once you figured out how much to lead that individual player he ran away. And thats assuming he didnt spam JJs to voidshield himself even more.

Quote

Haha, yeah definitely. If you think its easy to own with a firestarter, then play one.

Yeah, definately. I own an 8SPL FS and still think it needs at least the hitreg/boxes fixed.

[Cyborne Elemental]

FIrestarter-A is the only one that seems to be the problem.

Sure Ember and the others can be annoying, but they're balanced on DPS/HPS.

Its the same issue we were dealing with on the TDR-5SS and 9S, which is just too much sustained DPS on their primary quirked weapons.

The 5SS medpulse setup got balanced out fairly well in Quirk-Pass-2 by adjusting heat to the Medpulse, and now its fine, still powerful but hot enough to not allow nonstop spamming and massive sustained DPS.

FS9-A just needs the same thing that the TDR-9S needs and that the TDR-5SS got in QP2, just a small adjustment to make it balanced in comparison to its other variants.

Edited by Mister D, 18 January 2015 - 10:27 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Kilo 40, on 18 January 2015 - 04:57 AM, said:

It says that it is a popular, and a good mech.

being popular and good is not a reason to make it less good and less popular.

such a plain lie,

its all about FS's because they are the only mech who constantly master to cheat hitreg.

working hitreg is all the "nerf" they would need.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 January 2015 - 08:39 AM.

[MauttyKoray]

The True Space Pope, on 18 January 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

The Space Pope thinks that perhaps the Firestarter could use a fix, much like the Stormcrow in regards to it's hitboxes, but other than that it isn't particularly bad (although it could perhaps use some requirking or looking at).

The lack of variety in the light mech class is mostly due to:

1) a small number of light mech pilots
2) few useful light mechs because at the moment there is little reason to use anything other than a Firestarter (A and H), Jenner (F or Oxide), Huginn, Raven 3L for ECM. (Most of the other variants or chassis are sub-par and while fun are not anywhere near as efficient)
3) Sales/New Factor, new mechs on sales often end up becoming pretty well-used

There's plenty of useful light mechs, but the outliers are TOO useful is the problem. Why take a speedy locust or commando when you can take a Firestarter that almost never dies.?

[AEgg]

The light queue is consistently below 10%. If anything, they need to get better just to convince more people to actually play them. I'm not saying that lights are underpowered right now (I don't think they are). But if they were a bit overpowered at least then people would use them. Giving increased rewards for playing lights would be a better way to fix that, but regardless if lights were hugely overpowered, even if it was only the best ones, you'd think more people would actually use the things.

[Brody319]

I use my firestarter for the event. otherwise I rarely play it, because..well I have it mastered, I have no reason to play it. so now that I got my 3D I just don't really care about using it again. Just kinda has one style of play and thats it. Wait for a distraction, destroy the back, run away.

[HlynkaCG]

I agree with Ursh I feel that the FS9's quirks are fine but the engine cap is a little on the high side. The main problem with the fire starter is that it essentially makes all other non-ecm lights obsolete.

Ideally the choice between running a Fire-starter and running a Jenner would be a trade off between weapons and speed. As it stands the Fire-starter is just better, it gets more hard points and better hit-boxes for a measly 5 points of engine cap.

Slowing it down a bit would also dramatically improve hit-reg.

AEgg, on 18 January 2015 - 09:12 AM, said:

The light queue is consistently below 10%. If anything, they need to get better just to convince more people to actually play them. I'm not saying that lights are underpowered right now (I don't think they are). But if they were a bit overpowered at least then people would use them. Giving increased rewards for playing lights would be a better way to fix that, but regardless if lights were hugely overpowered, even if it was only the best ones, you'd think more people would actually use the things.

I still think that there should be a tonnage modifier for rewards. Kill a mech that is twice as heavy as you? get twice the normal CBills and XP.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Yeah.... let's totally nerf the only good chassis in an entire weight class that's nearly gone the way of the dodo bird.

If the mech is so OP, then is the queue only ever a single digit?

[Brody319]

AEgg, on 18 January 2015 - 09:12 AM, said:

The light queue is consistently below 10%. If anything, they need to get better just to convince more people to actually play them. I'm not saying that lights are underpowered right now (I don't think they are). But if they were a bit overpowered at least then people would use them. Giving increased rewards for playing lights would be a better way to fix that, but regardless if lights were hugely overpowered, even if it was only the best ones, you'd think more people would actually use the things.

No. Lights are not played because they are more difficult!
For most people when they take an AC20 and explode in one shot, they just don't want to play. Lights require speed, accuracy, and more! The difficulty is not getting shot and shooting back. When one stray shot can end you, most people find them useless!

Lights will always be low no matter how much you reward them. Because its not the lack of rewards because I've had 250K games in a locust, the reason they aren't played is because they require more SKILL. You can't tank damage, you can't shoot back with insane firepower. You have to know the maps, the mech, the enemy, the limits and advantages of almost every mech to be an effective light.

Choosing between the lone direwolf and the lone Cataphract may seem like an easy choice then you factor in the direwolf has LB-Xs and would likely rip you to shreds if you attack him, that cataphract has 2 gauss rifles and no back up lasers, making him an easy target. You have to make that choice extremely fast or your team will suffer for it.

Want more people to play lights?! then you have to basically turn them into something they aren't. You would have to give them the firepower of a heavy and tank like an assault.

[Kilo 40]

Golden Vulf, on 18 January 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

Everyone should remember this the next time they are in a Timberwolf thread.

I'm perfectly fine with TW where they are at. Same with 9S's as well as firestarters.

All mechs can't be equal.

Lily from animove, on 18 January 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

such a plain lie,

its all about FS's because they are the only mech who constantly master to cheat hitreg.

working hitreg is all the "nerf" they would need.

Disagree with me all you want, but stop calling me a liar.

[Ted Wayz]

They did hit the Firestarter with the nerf bat. Unfortunately due to bad hit registration it did not have much effect.

[Monkey Lover]

If weapons were the same scale as weapons put on my assault mech lights wouldnt be so tiny running around with ppc, 8 medium lasers or 4 machine guns.

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 18 January 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

Yeah.... let's totally nerf the only good chassis in an entire weight class that's nearly gone the way of the dodo bird.

If the mech is so OP, then is the queue only ever a single digit?

This is the reason they havent done anything about it. They using hitreg as a balancing tool. Its really suck. They should fix hitreg and buff lights if they need too. Heck just +50% armor to the legs would make them live twice as long.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 18 January 2015 - 09:53 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

I believe that if PGI reintroduces a, ummm, practical knockdown mechanic, those light pilots will spend more time scouting than harrassing.

If I shoot a light with an alpha or a single AC20 round that hits at, say, less than 100m, it should fall over. If a Light gets hit with 40 or so missiles, it should fall over. If a light runs into a heavier mech over 50 tons, it should fall over/bounce off and both mechs take some damage.

[MauttyKoray]

HlynkaCG, on 18 January 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

I agree with Ursh I feel that the FS9's quirks are fine but the engine cap is a little on the high side. The main problem with the fire starter is that it essentially makes all other non-ecm lights obsolete.

Ideally the choice between running a Fire-starter and running a Jenner would be a trade off between weapons and speed. As it stands the Fire-starter is just better, it gets more hard points and better hit-boxes for a measly 5 points of engine cap.

Slowing it down a bit would also dramatically improve hit-reg.

I like this idea quite a lot actually. The Firestarter has always been a bit on the fast side compared to other lights, so there isn't really a point to taking less weaponry with a negligible speed increase and less armor. It should also improve hit reg due to slower movement, hopefully.

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 18 January 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

Yeah.... let's totally nerf the only good chassis in an entire weight class that's nearly gone the way of the dodo bird.

If the mech is so OP, then is the queue only ever a single digit?

Because people are stupid at playing them, they require high skill and not being an idiot and standing still in them like most people do in Heavies and Assaults.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Darian DelFord, on 18 January 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

Simple fix, buff the damn CT of the jenners either structure or armor, and I bet you will see more of them. Currently the Jenner is outclassed by the FS, it has nothing to do with the weapons load out, it has everything to do with spreading damage.

That's not the reason I stopped playing the Jenner. My two go-to lights were the JR7-D and F. I pretty much don't use them anymore because the quirks stuck.

JR7-D:
-7.5% missile cooldown

-JR7-F:
-7.5% energy weapon range


The Oxide and K got usable quirks. The K still isn't as good as the FS9-D and the Oxide, while pretty solid now, is a paid for mech and it lacks JJs.


Then look at the Firestarter, Locust, Spider, Raven (minus the 3L), and Commando quirks then look at the Jenner quirks.

[The Most Regular Comstar]

I'll be fine with them nerfing lights when they nerf the agility of heavies and assaults. Those things can turn and torso twist fast enough to keep lights in their crosshairs all the time. There needs to be some balance. I'm tired of listening to assault pilots that think, "lights should die in one shot, and they should never get behind me."

[Metus regem]

The only nerf it needs, is to have the hit reg fixed, that will hurt it big time. Do you remember when they had it fixed for a couple of days? Firestarters were dropping like flies.

[Golden Vulf]

On a related note, if you guys want to see more variety on clan side when it comes to what heavies and mediums players bring, Endo steel on Nova, Summoner, Mad Dog, Hellbringer, and Gargoyle would be the way.

The Timberwolf is the only clan mech over 55 tons that has Endo steel, so of course it is more popular, you can fit much more stuff on it. Even if Dire Wolf and Warhawk could take endo, they don't have the crit space to really use it.

A Nova with Endo Steel finally becomes a decent competitor with the Storm Crow. It is still borked as far as hit boxes, but it ends up having more total tonnage devoted to heatsinks and energy weapons, trading speed for jump jets.

[Lily from animove]

Golden Vulf, on 18 January 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

On a related note, if you guys want to see more variety on clan side when it comes to what heavies and mediums players bring, Endo steel on Nova, Summoner, Mad Dog, Hellbringer, and Gargoyle would be the way.

The Timberwolf is the only clan mech over 55 tons that has Endo steel, so of course it is more popular, you can fit much more stuff on it. Even if Dire Wolf and Warhawk could take endo, they don't have the crit space to really use it.

A Nova with Endo Steel finally becomes a decent competitor with the Storm Crow. It is still borked as far as hit boxes, but it ends up having more total tonnage devoted to heatsinks and energy weapons, trading speed for jump jets.

sry what? +2,5t on the ova don't make it a competitor, LOL

your mech is still oversized and plops liek a overblown baloon.
your mech is still slower
it has still the worse hardpoint locations and distribution
it still has less hp
it still has less tonnage for weapons

those 2,5 tons do now improve a lot.