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It's Time To Hit The Firestarter With The Nerf Bat.


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#301 MechWarrior3671771

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 11:50 AM

I think the easiest test of OP is to look at how many the light pilots are playing. If peeps are still jumping in Jenners and Ravens and etc, then no problem. But if everyone is piloting FS because to not do so gimps your team, then its something that PGI should look at.

We had this problem with the Flea in a MW4 Capture the Flag ladder, and it ruined the game.

I'm not worried. Everything gets buffed then nerfed then back all over again. But if you're a dedicated FS pilot, be aware you are taking a risk that your Precious will get nerfed. Have fun with it till then, but don't come back to the forums complaining about all the time money and energy you put into it - you knew this was likely coming and chose to take that risk anyway. Its a bet that all meta/minmaxers make.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 23 January 2015 - 11:54 AM.


#302 Ultimax

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 12:59 PM

View PostFenrisulvyn, on 23 January 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

I think the easiest test of OP is to look at how many the light pilots are playing. If peeps are still jumping in Jenners and Ravens and etc, then no problem....


By your own logic we should look at the number of pilots jumping into Assaults, Heavies and Mediums - all of which are usually a 25 to 40% wait in the queue and then we can say that these classes are all overpowered vs. Lights, which is why Lights only represent less than 10% of the queue on average.

#303 topgun505

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 01:23 PM

The stats i gave were NOT including quirks so the FSR can do more damage than the Jenner at just a hair over HALF the heat that the Jenner generates.

That permits the FSR to get off several volleys before it has to stop, whereas the Jenner has to stop at 2 volleys ... That does make a significant difference.

As to the mount points ... irrelevant. The FSRs mode of attack is in your face and takes off your leg (or both) before you can do anything about it. And with its hitboxes in its current form it's a safe bet that it can dart in and leg the target and get out without so much as an armor breach. The Jenner, can try the same thing but if two volleys isn't enough it has to give up and flee as it's too hot to continue and it's nearly guaranteed to be CT cored if it hangs around any longer. There's no amount of twisting that will save it.

The extra range is good with the Jenner but it can't overcome the FSR benefits which is why you see mostly FSRs on the field.

The bottom line is the FSR simply deals out more DPS for it's current heat cost.

View PostUltimatum X, on 23 January 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:



The Jenner F has an optimal range of 270m, it has high weapon mounts and can poke over hills. It does half damage at 405m

The FS9-A has an optimal range of 148m, it has low weapon mounts and must expose all of it's upper torso. It does half damage at 222m.




These are all of it's quirks, these are the quirks people are losing their minds over.



SMALL PULSE LASER RANGE: 7.50% (Total 15%)
ENERGY RANGE: 7.50%
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -10.00%



Woopdie freaking do.


#304 Dramastorm

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 02:36 PM

The nerfbat is in your hands, adapt adapt aim adapt.
How to apply said nerfbat? Play the mechs you hate to fight against to learn thier pro's and con's first hand. If something isnt working then adjust and reapply. I have played all kinds of mechs and I can say for sure that if you miss a step while positioning as an assault, you get punished just like a light would when they make a mistake, and you deserve it because you moved without thinking first.
So if youre having issues with lights busting nuts in your butt as an assault then you realllllllly need to find out where youre missing a step and start focusing on your positioning etc. If you honestly think that FS9's are 90% of lights right now then you already have the handle of your nerfbat. The top half of your nerfbat is in your positioning and aim

#305 Galenit

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 02:42 PM

View Posttopgun505, on 23 January 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

The stats i gave were NOT including quirks so the FSR can do more damage than the Jenner at just a hair over HALF the heat that the Jenner generates.


Wasnt there something about an atlas and a jenner and why we cant get real doubleheatsinks?

And now we have a mech that can do that but without real dhs?

The devs show again that they dont know what they do or what they have said.

Edited by Galenit, 23 January 2015 - 02:43 PM.


#306 Dramastorm

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 03:07 PM

Wait a tick....did I just post on the Promote Jenner Thread or the Nerbat for FS9's? lol

#307 MechWarrior3671771

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 05:41 PM

"By your own logic we should look at the number of pilots jumping into Assaults, Heavies and Mediums - all of which are usually a 25 to 40% wait in the queue and then we can say that these classes are all overpowered vs. Lights, which is why Lights only represent less than 10% of the queue on average."

No. Matchmaker already balances this, which is why you don't get 12 assaults for pug drops. Same for CW, which limits you to 4 mechs totaling 240 tons.

#308 Yokaiko

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 05:47 PM

View PostAugustus Martelus II, on 23 January 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

Most say i did splat many times a lot of srms on a Firestarter (sure i finish them off) vs a jenner and i must say Firestarter seem more durable vs a jenner.....broken hitboxs? :/



Everything hits a Jenner's CT.....everything.

#309 dario03

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 05:57 PM

View PostAugustus Martelus II, on 23 January 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

Most say i did splat many times a lot of srms on a Firestarter (sure i finish them off) vs a jenner and i must say Firestarter seem more durable vs a jenner.....broken hitboxs? :/


Yes broken hitbox on the Jenner. Well I guess its more of a working as intended thing though because they designed the Jenner to be all CT for some reason.

#310 Virgil Greyson

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 06:54 PM

Sweep the leg. Firestarter stops being OP.

#311 Zolaz

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 11:45 PM

lol a Firestarter has to run up on someone to use those SPL. Dont you have some range on your mech? A Firestarter has to close the distance to be able to use those SPL that you are crying about. Use your weapons to your advantage.

:rolleyes:

#312 El Bandito

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 11:52 PM

View PostZolaz, on 23 January 2015 - 11:45 PM, said:

lol a Firestarter has to run up on someone to use those SPL. Dont you have some range on your mech? A Firestarter has to close the distance to be able to use those SPL that you are crying about. Use your weapons to your advantage.

:rolleyes:


Kinda hard to take down those Firestarters before they get into range when half my shots are not registering as a hit due to broken FS hitboxes. Not like they would always charge at me in the open...

http://mwomercs.com/...ppcs-wholl-win/

Edited by El Bandito, 23 January 2015 - 11:54 PM.


#313 Ultimax

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 04:14 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 23 January 2015 - 11:52 PM, said:


Kinda hard to take down those Firestarters before they get into range when half my shots are not registering as a hit due to broken FS hitboxes. Not like they would always charge at me in the open...

http://mwomercs.com/...ppcs-wholl-win/



If half your hits aren't registering either your ping is atrocious, or you need to shoot better.

I've never experienced "half my shots" missing, not even in CW.

#314 Zolaz

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 04:44 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 23 January 2015 - 11:52 PM, said:


Kinda hard to take down those Firestarters before they get into range when half my shots are not registering as a hit due to broken FS hitboxes. Not like they would always charge at me in the open...

http://mwomercs.com/...ppcs-wholl-win/


What happens if you catch a Firestarter in the open? So is it broken hitboxes or the Firestarters SPL that you are complaining about?

#315 STEF_

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 04:50 AM

16 pages...!!

So many eternal noobs pilots qq for lights.....
....if lights are op or such good mechs, why the hell is the light que around 5-8%?

pffffffff......

#316 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 04:53 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 23 January 2015 - 11:52 PM, said:

Kinda hard to take down those Firestarters before they get into range when half my shots are not registering as a hit due to broken FS hitboxes. Not like they would always charge at me in the open...
This suggests to me that the Firestarter only needs to have some HitReg fix not a Nerfing. It is a fast small skinny Mech, we should likely have a issue hitting it. But that should only be based on our ability to aim. ;)

Meaning it should always be challenging for ME to kill a firestarter. ;)

View PostStefka Kerensky, on 24 January 2015 - 04:50 AM, said:

16 pages...!!

So many eternal noobs pilots qq for lights.....
....if lights are op or such good mechs, why the hell is the light que around 5-8%?

pffffffff......

They may have perks to avoid being hit... But they just don't dish damage if you are not a good light pilot. ;)

#317 STEF_

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 05:01 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 24 January 2015 - 04:53 AM, said:

They may have perks to avoid being hit... But they just don't dish damage if you are not a good light pilot. ;)


You already know how I think: it's always the pilot :)
(in both senses, the one that manages to shoot and hit, and the one piloting good for not being hit).

edit: that's why, with a FS9, I always get hit by certain pilots, even in a slow assault, while I can joke with others, that cannot aim well

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 24 January 2015 - 05:02 AM.


#318 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 05:04 AM

View PostStefka Kerensky, on 24 January 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:


You already know how I think: it's always the pilot :)
(in both senses, the one that manages to shoot and hit, and the one piloting good for not being hit).

edit: that's why, with a FS9, I always get hit by certain pilots, even in a slow assault, while I can joke with others, that cannot aim well

I prove this to a T. I know players who make a Commando look like an Atlas. I make it look like a Testing ground Target. :lol:

#319 Ratpoison

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 06:15 AM

The thing that makes the Firestarters OP isn't any one particular issue(hit registration issues are a separate issue and should be treated as such), but simply the fact that they are better than every other light in every area.

Defensively, the Firestarters are the strongest light as they have the armor of a 35 ton mech on a chassis that rolls damage extremely well. By comparison, the Jenners have their huge CT that soaks up most of the damage they take, and can hardly roll damage at all, while the Ravens have their crunchy, easy to hit legs and lack of jumpjets that limit their defensive mobility options. The Firestarters have no such weak areas, while carrying the same amount of armor, paired with top tier mobility that put together make it the best light in terms of defense.

Offensively, the Firestarters are also the strongest light as they can take ANY laser option that the other lights can, and run them better. The 8 SPLAS and its incredibly high DPS isn't even close to possible on any other light, the 5 MPLAS FS9-S runs far cooler than it would on any other light that can take it, and even the classic 6 MLAS JR7-F build runs cooler on the FS9-H or FS9-S.

With these things put together, there's simply no technical reason to take any other light over a Firestarter, as it is simply the best light mech in terms of offense as well as defense. The Jenners have their sponge-like CT and lack of quirks, the Ravens have their crunchy legs, lack of JJs, and low number of hardpoints, the Spiders have their extremely limited weapon options on top of less armor, the Commandos and Locusts have tiny amounts of armor and limited weapon space, and the Clan lights are all much slower and more vulnerable. Every light has a blatant weakness EXCEPT for the Firestarters, which is what really makes them OP.

That said, hit registration issues do cause some of the problems in dealing with this mech, but that's a separate issue that affects ALL lights and should be treated as a separate issue entirely, as it will go away when those issues are fixed. It only seems to affect the Firestarters more because they don't have weaknesses to start with. With that in mind, light mechs are not OP in comparison to other mechs at all, even the Firestarters, so nerfing is the wrong idea entirely. The proper course of action for this is not to nerf the Firestarters, but to buff all of the OTHER lights into comparative usable states. As it stands there is literally no technical reason to take any other light because the Firestarter does whatever they could do, only better, unless you feel like taking an ECM and playing a supportive role.

#320 Kjudoon

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 06:18 AM

Lights are my least favorite mechs to play. That's my reason. I enjoy Mediums and Heavies far more.



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