121 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Darian DelFord, on 18 January 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

Just got out of 2 matches where a DW had 2 ER PPC's and 2 Guass macroed to a fire group. Of course he denied it but when you actually just watched him fire, it was in perfect unison. Every shot, perfect unison.

I can do that WITHOUT a macro. Is that so amazing?

[beerandasmoke]

DjPush, on 18 January 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

Oh my god! That is theB33f's real voice? I'm sorry....

Its his face too!!! Double OMG!!!

[Vassago Rain]

Johnny Z, on 18 January 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

Every game I know of bans players for using macros. It is a third party program used to fire the players weapons for them. Just as a trigger bot does. There are arguements why a trigger bot shouldnt be bannable and they are exactly the same as the arguements for allowing the macro programs to fire players weapons.

So you're saying that MMOs ban players for using their macro buttons on keyboards and mice? And MOBAs, too?

Oh, wait, they're not. Those things are completely legit in both genres, as well as fighting games, where you can bind, say, all 3 punches to the right shoulder button, so you don't have to press 3 separate buttons to get out your super combo.

I wish EVO would ban all these exploiters who use their fancy sticks and PS4 controllers, man. Maybe SNK and Capcom shouldn't put the ability to make macros in their game's options menus?



Edit: added visual aid. Look at all these macros I can setup at will and bind to any of my 12 buttons, two sticks, and 8 directions. I even have quick macros to manipulate the training mode's record feature more easily. As seen above, I currently have the blowback (heavy kick+heavy punch) bound to the right shoulder button, and the roll (light kick+light punch) on the left shoulder button. I even have the HD mode activation on the right bumper.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 18 January 2015 - 08:01 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Vassago Rain, on 18 January 2015 - 07:55 PM, said:

So you're saying that MMOs ban players for using their macro buttons on keyboards and mice? And MOBAs, too?

Oh, wait, they're not. Those things are completely legit in both genres, as well as fighting games, where you can bind, say, all 3 punches to the right shoulder button, so you don't have to press 3 separate buttons to get out your super combo.

I wish EVO would ban all these exploiters who use their fancy sticks and PS4 controllers, man. Maybe SNK and Capcom shouldn't put the ability to make macros in their game's options menus?

First of all key bindings are not macros. Yes MMO's do ban third party programs built into key boards and mice that circumvent game play mechanics. That is indeed a fact.

By the way it is in the interest of computer gaming to stop cheating in a big way since it is the one draw back to pc's as opposed to consoles....

If you want to make a decent bet making it worth my while i can put a link to another (older than MWOnline)next gen shooter's terms of service. Yes it was recently updated to include banning for macros officially.

15. Abuse or exploit bugs, undocumented features, loopholes, design errors or problems in the game.

16. Use any scripting or macroing tools, hardware or software.

17. Use any game hacking/altering/cheating software or tools.

Edited by Johnny Z, 18 January 2015 - 08:09 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Darian DelFord, on 18 January 2015 - 06:14 AM, said:

Well I have seen macro's that fire LBX 2's at an ungodly rate, same with the AC 2 and a few others. Even though the velocity of Guass and PPC's are not the same, still being able to fire them at the exact same moment greatly improves the ability to hit the same spot. That is 50 PPFLD plus 10 splash you can do nothing against especially if you are within 500 meters.

I am in the I would not know how to use it if I tried crowd, never had to, but to me it just ruins the game knowing that an opponent is having to use a program to compensate for his lack of skill. If I am beaten I want it to be because he was truly better than me for some reason. Not simply because he has a program that compensates.

I dunno, just an exploit as far as I can tell, and do not even get me started on the damn JJ Macro,

It's not possible to 'fire faster' with a macro. You can't refire your AC5s more than once every 1.66th second. What you're seeing is PGI's fail chainfire, that doesn't instantly refire when a gun's ready.

Just bind every gun to its own separate button, and piano finger it like you're spamming some Honda hundred hand slaps. It's the same effect. I was doing that with UAC5s on my founder atlas forever.

A JJ macro isn't even necessary. Tap the space bar whenever your mech's not making jet sounds. Lagshield engaged. People have been doing that for 3 years now.

Johnny Z, on 18 January 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

First of all key bindings are not macros. Yes MMO's do ban third party programs built into key boards and mice that circumvent game play mechanics. That is indeed a fact.

By the way it is in the interest of computer gaming to stop cheating in a big way since it is the one draw back to pc's as opposed to consoles....

If you want to make a decent bet making it worth my while i can put a link to another (older than MWOnline)next gen shooter's terms of service. Yes it was recently updated to include banning for macros officially.

15. Abuse or exploit bugs, undocumented features, loopholes, design errors or problems in the game.

16. Use any scripting or macroing tools, hardware or software.

17. Use any game hacking/altering/cheating software or tools.

>Use any scripting or macroing tools, hardware or software.

Aight, man. Time to ban everybody with more than 2 buttons and a scrollwheel on their mouse.

Wait, that's stupid.

[Johnny Z]

Just because it doesnt say explicitly in a tos doesnt mean its not cheating. So be carefull about promoting macro use because, like I said in a previous topic on this, the game can all of a sudden get tough on things.

That other game has banned nearly 2500 players to date from what I know. It has banned 400 players in one day and this is typical for legit online games so dont get mad if these guys start laying around with the ban stick.

Edited by Johnny Z, 18 January 2015 - 08:17 PM.

[Mavairo]

Yea no.
PGI's not going to do anything about macros anytime soon. They are NOT hacks.
They in no way alter the program of the game.

Furthermore any "big game" that does it will soon find itself not a big game anymore.
Infact many more high profile games include the ability to make macros in game.
To say nothing of the backlash that comes from such an utterly invasive method of privacy to scan your computer, while you play for coded macros.

Otherwise macro detection is spotty at best. Someone with lightning fingers, and solid reflexes like say myself, could get banned for "macro use" even though I play 'au natural' .

[Johnny Z]

Also this may get this topic deleted or locked like I seen some of the others but they dont ban immediately. They like to find out the programs and or tools used and see how many are using them, then ban in a big wave. Ya sounds like a scare tactic, but it is actually a legit heads up.

Mavairo, on 18 January 2015 - 08:22 PM, said:

Yea no.
PGI's not going to do anything about macros anytime soon. They are NOT hacks.
They in no way alter the program of the game.

Furthermore any "big game" that does it will soon find itself not a big game anymore.
Infact many more high profile games include the ability to make macros in game.
To say nothing of the backlash that comes from such an utterly invasive method of privacy to scan your computer, while you play for coded macros.

Otherwise macro detection is spotty at best. Someone with lightning fingers, and solid reflexes like say myself, could get banned for "macro use" even though I play 'au natural' .

I have seen this exact reply in another online shooter game to ROFL. They still ended up banning peeps for using macros. No kidding. This is to the best of my knowledge 100% true.

[Mavairo]

Johnny Z, on 18 January 2015 - 08:30 PM, said:

Also this may get this topic deleted or locked like I seen some of the others but they dont ban immediately. They like to find out the programs and or tools used and see how many are using them, then ban in a big wave. Ya sounds like a scare tactic, but it is actually a legit heads up.



I have seen this exact reply in another online shooter game to ROFL. They still ended up banning peeps for using macros. No kidding. This is to the best of my knowledge 100% true.

Every gaming piece of hardware out there, has macros available as part of the drivers. Period.
Macros are hardly anything special or exotic.
And ontop of that, your fear is hardly the industry standard. WOW for example, not only encourages the uses of macros, they even put a tool kit to use them in game, for the hardware crippled out there to make macros with.
Scores of other games also include ingame complex keybinds, as well like STO, RIFT, Guild Wars, and so very many others.
This game has been around for 3 years now, and not once has PGI done a thing about Macros.

Edited by Mavairo, 18 January 2015 - 08:37 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Johnny Z, on 18 January 2015 - 08:30 PM, said:

Also this may get this topic deleted or locked like I seen some of the others but they dont ban immediately. They like to find out the programs and or tools used and see how many are using them, then ban in a big wave. Ya sounds like a scare tactic, but it is actually a legit heads up.



I have seen this exact reply in another online shooter game to ROFL. They still ended up banning peeps for using macros. No kidding. This is to the best of my knowledge 100% true.

Aight, bro, aight, but how would you feel if I told you this topic's come up multiple times in the past 3 years, and every single time, some dev shows up and tells us that no, macros are totally fine, and they have no plans to ban anyone for using their 6 button mice, their PS4 controllers, joysticks, HOTAS, or what have you?

Mavairo, on 18 January 2015 - 08:36 PM, said:

Every gaming piece of hardware out there, has macros available as part of the drivers. Period.
Macros are hardly anything special or exotic.
And ontop of that, your fear is hardly the industry standard. WOW for example, not only encourages the uses of macros, they even put a tool kit to use them in game, for the hardware crippled out there to make macros with.
Scores of other games also include ingame complex keybinds, as well like STO, RIFT, Guild Wars, and so very many others.

Add skullgirls, KOF13, KOF98, guilty gear xrd, street fighter 3, street fighter 4, mortal kombat 9, and every other fighting game currently being played to that list.

[Johnny Z]

Vassago Rain, on 18 January 2015 - 08:36 PM, said:

Aight, bro, aight, but how would you feel if I told you this topic's come up multiple times in the past 3 years, and every single time, some dev shows up and tells us that no, macros are totally fine, and they have no plans to ban anyone for using their 6 button mice, their PS4 controllers, joysticks, HOTAS, or what have you?

I would say I seen this all before on other forums and it didnt change a thing. In fact the same topic but slightly different attitude in replies lately are currently on the forums of one of the games that is banning massively lol. Im done here. Likely cant say anything more worth while.

Edited by Johnny Z, 18 January 2015 - 08:43 PM.

[Mcgral18]

MerryIguana, on 18 January 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:

You dint see nuthin.

Hm...maybe my macro is off...but I didn't notice anything significant.


Sometimes one second on the Catapults leg, but nothing to the degree the videos show. The sound changes properly, but not much change in actual damage.

[Mister Blastman]

That machine gun thing is disgusting.

[Nebuchednezzar]

AEgg, on 18 January 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

There's nothing you can do with a macro that you can't do without one.

So why are they a problem? Other people want to take the easy way out and put themselves at a minor disadvantage by always being tied to exactly the same pattern (rather than cancelling the charge, or slowing down firing speed, whatever), that's their problem.

And why are people upset about someone chainfiring AC2s? Groupfire is always better than chainfire anyway so you should be happy your enemies are chaining them.

It's Psychology to chainfire AC2's. It often rattles the player and they 'panic' to a degree trying to figure out where it's coming from and is it a bigger AC. It's just a way to make a pilot move more than anything else really.

[Lugh]

Appogee, on 18 January 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

Some lame people need crutches. It would be heartless to deny the lame their crutches.

And some literally lame people, as in disabled with barely functional hands etc, need their crutches. macros help them to do with a finger something you and I take for granted with our two hands.

[Gas Guzzler]

Darian DelFord, on 18 January 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

Just got out of 2 matches where a DW had 2 ER PPC's and 2 Guass macroed to a fire group. Of course he denied it but when you actually just watched him fire, it was in perfect unison. Every shot, perfect unison.

I do this all the time. It isn't that difficult to get the timing down. Some times I try to actually fire the ERPPCs a fraction of a sec before hand so they get to the target at the same time, but its really not hard to time them at the same time. I even have a 3rd button to fire just one PPC with the Gauss instead of both if my mech is getting toasty. No macro required, although it is very concerning how many people think this is required...


EDIT: WHY WAS THIS THREAD NECROED FROM LAST JANUARY?? Really, it couldn't possibly have been that important to say chainfiring AC2s scared people. Every time I see someone on my team doing that I facepalm.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 21 March 2016 - 08:10 AM.

[TexAce]

Anyone who says he can manually fire the same pattern as B33f does in the video is outright lying. Period.

Funny how NO one of you showed a video of it working without a macro.

[Xavori]

As long as all timing checks are server side, macros can't be an exploit. They literally would not be able to do anything more than a player with strong manual dexterity could do.

What macros do is level that playing field. You no longer have to have ninja fingers. You don't even need special keyboards or mice. You just have to go grab a program like autohotkey which lets you completely alter the user I/O of your PC.

So nope, not an exploit at all in MWO since you cannot do anything with macros that you couldn't do with nimble fingers.

p.s. I don't use autohokey or any other macro for MWO. I have a Razer Naga, but I'm not using it for anything more than letting me map the 5 key to open my Archer's doors since that button is right next to my thumb. For the most part I simply never build mechs that need more than 2 mouse buttons...ie. laservomit is left button LPL's and right button MPL's, or lurmboats are right button laser backup weapons and left button LRM's, and so on.

[RussianWolf]

Darian DelFord, on 18 January 2015 - 06:24 AM, said:

Adda macro to it then compare

no macro needed... put them in two fire groups and click the buttons as fast as you can. It won't be as uniform as a macro, but the effect is much faster than the chainfire offered in game.

[Gas Guzzler]

TexAce, on 21 March 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Anyone who says he can manually fire the same pattern as B33f does in the video is outright lying. Period.

Funny how NO one of you showed a video of it working without a macro.

I don't know why you would want to fire like that? It is more precise and efficient to fire all at once.