72 replies to this topic

[Serpieri]

Brody319, on 19 January 2015 - 08:56 PM, said:

I found it pretty awesome in MW4:Mercs

ah MW4 - great game.

[Brody319]

Serpieri, on 19 January 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

ah MW4 - great game.

It wasn't that bad, despite what everyone here will say. Nostalgia goggles are a bit too thick.

[MauttyKoray]

CocoaJin, on 19 January 2015 - 08:15 PM, said:

If you like the damn Awesome, then run the damn Awesome! Stop worrying about how your little brother got a cookie too.

"Don't worry about balance! I'm enjoying my ridiculous ERPPC boat."

Death Drow, on 19 January 2015 - 08:50 PM, said:

New player? The Awesome has never been awesome. Used to be you could shoot it in the heels from behind and get front side CT hits.

The Awesome was actually pretty sweet after the first quirk pass, then the TBolt came along and made it absolutely useless to take the Awesome because you could use 3ERPPC better than either the 3 ERPPC or 3/4 PPC variants of the Awesome.

[Lightfoot]

MauttyKoray, on 19 January 2015 - 12:55 PM, said:

Seriously. The Awesome is meant to be THE IS (ER)PPC boat with the current line up of mechs available. But this Thunderbolt quirk pass has made the Awesome USELESS. Not only does the Thunderbolt generate LESS heat than the Awesome with the same number of ERPPCs but all of its hardpoints are clustered in a way that make the Thunderbolt equivelent to a zombie mech and almost as bad as the jump sniper meta we had to deal with prior.

So Russ, since the Thunderbolt is apparently great where it is, where is my -70% ERPPC Heat Gen quirk for the Awesome, huh?

QFT

I was thinking of making a post like this. It seems the Thunderbolt-9S is the AWS-9M that we never got due to DHS 1.4 not supporting a Mech with 3xERPPCs at all, which was released on the same patch as the AWS-9M. So my AWS-9M continues to remain parked in it's hanger while the TBT-9S gets it's Quirks, even though it comes with just one ERPPC and the AWS-9M comes with three? What about Lore, Roleplay, and Battle Tech being applied to the Mech Quirks?

On a side note, why does my Protector come with AC20 quirks when Kerensky's mech had a Snub Nose PPC and the Protector comes with PPCs and a Gauss Rifle?

Edited by Lightfoot, 19 January 2015 - 09:15 PM.

[Black Arachne]

MauttyKoray, on 19 January 2015 - 09:06 PM, said:

"Don't worry about balance! I'm enjoying my ridiculous ERPPC boat."


The Awesome was actually pretty sweet after the first quirk pass, then the TBolt came along and made it absolutely useless to take the Awesome because you could use 3ERPPC better than either the 3 ERPPC or 3/4 PPC variants of the Awesome.

PGI is the KIng when it comes to going Full Circle.

Edited by Black Arachne, 19 January 2015 - 09:18 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Brody319, on 19 January 2015 - 09:03 PM, said:

It wasn't that bad, despite what everyone here will say. Nostalgia goggles are a bit too thick.

It sure was a good mech in Mechcommander. I much preferred it to the Atlas. And since I couldnt figure out how to mod that game, I couldnt give myself a wide array of Warhawks.

I always wanted to start the game with a Summoner W, Mad Dog W, Warhawk A and the Timby A that you can download.

[topgun505]

That wasn't really the point. The point of the thread was that we have a dedicated well-known PPC-slinging mech ... that isn't. And a jack-of-all-trades mech (the TDR) which is suddenly the king of PPCs.

Honestly, considering that very few mechs in this timeline ever packed more than two aside from the Awesomes, I think the fact that you can ripple fire 3 ERPPCs in rapid succession on the TDR is an indication that the quirk went a little TOO far. Probably could stand to be toned down 10% or so ... and then ... take those quirks OFF of the TDR and give it to the AWS where it belongs. One of the reasons why you see so many of those TDRs in CW is the fact that you can boat THREE of them in a drop deck. So even if the PPC quirks remain overpowered, they wouldn't be blatantly so if they were on the AWS instead since you'd only be able to take two of them.

Xavier, on 19 January 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

Having played both sides of the CW line I can honestly say the TB is not overpowered Clans still have the advantage over this mech, when we face TB strats in game as clans its not that hard to defeat. The IS has to have a way to compete and the TB gives IS players a hope of competing both the 9S and 5SS are exactly what Quirks should do for a mech.

[CocoaJin]

MauttyKoray, on 19 January 2015 - 09:06 PM, said:

"Don't worry about balance! I'm enjoying my ridiculous ERPPC boat."

Not at all, never owned it, no plans to. It's not my kind of ride in the least.

[Roadkill]

MauttyKoray, on 19 January 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

Please point out where I referenced CW or the Clan vs IS balance at all? This is about the Thunderbolt's ERPPC quirk being ridiculous and knocking the Awesome out of its niche because of that imbalanced quirk.

The problem with your post is that your suggested solution is the wrong one.

Yes, the Thud's quirks look ridiculously overpowered on paper. But as it turns out, in game it's just another good Mech. It isn't OP even in CW, and in the regular queues we eat them alive. In other words, the 9S is about where it should be in order to be balanced with the other good Mechs available.

So since your primary complaint seems to be that the 9S quirks make the Awesome obsolete, the correct fix to suggest would have been a buff to the Awesome to make it no longer obsolete.

[xe N on]

Well, if I compare the 9S with the 5SS, the 5SS with 7 med pulse laser performs much better in regular modes. The 9S is just a good gate opener in CW.

The 9S with 3 erppcs has an alpha of 30, which is low in the time of clan mechs that can easily reach 50. Firing all 3 erppcs will overheat the mech quite fast even with the quirks because of ghost heat.

The sad fact is that PPCs are only viable if you overquirk mechs. Instead, the weapon it self currently is overshadowed by hit scan weapons.

In fact, neither the Tbolt nor the Awesome should get quirks like 50% heat reduction to make using PPCs viable. Instead the PPCs need to be rebalanced with the current game state. Heat reduction and speed increase by 25%. Just decouple it with Gauss, so that firing Gauss or PPCs prevent using another the other weapon by 1 sec.

Edited by xe N on, 19 January 2015 - 10:13 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

Roadkill, on 19 January 2015 - 09:57 PM, said:

The problem with your post is that your suggested solution is the wrong one.

Yes, the Thud's quirks look ridiculously overpowered on paper. But as it turns out, in game it's just another good Mech. It isn't OP even in CW, and in the regular queues we eat them alive. In other words, the 9S is about where it should be in order to be balanced with the other good Mechs available.

So since your primary complaint seems to be that the 9S quirks make the Awesome obsolete, the correct fix to suggest would have been a buff to the Awesome to make it no longer obsolete.

Here's an idea, lets buff every mech and weapon in the game so that they all go the same speed, have the same armor, the same hitboxes, and the same damage. That way its completely balanced so that every mech can shoot once and kill another mech, sound fun? No, neither is an Awesome beyond the point of the insane ERPPC quirks the Thunderbolt got. My point is that the Awesome was MADE to run (ER)PPCs and cool them efficiently. Putting a cooldown on the Thunderbolt (which only ever had 1 on it) which makes it run 3 ERPPCs Better than the Awesome can even run 3 non-ER PPCs is ridiculous. Swapping them shouldn't even be the option because then the Awesome would have a ridiculous ERPPC quirk. The Thunderbolt's quirk needs to be rebalanced around 2ERPPCs at most.

Why is it stupid or closed minded people try to partake in balance discussions? Yes I made a stupid first post, intentionally so for the shock effect at suggesting something stupid and ridiculous. I don't actually want a crazy high quirk for the Awesome, I want the Thunderbolt's quirk re-balanced with the Awesome being what it is in mind. As it is the standard PPC Awesome already has -25% heat gen total and can't even keep up with the Thunderbolts -50% ERPPC quirk? On top of that it also has a COOLDOWN quirk, which the Awesome doesn't have for ERPPCs. Right there should tell you something is broken and imbalanced. So what is the issue with a Thunderbolt being balanced to fire 2 ERPPCs with a lower cooldown than the Awesome with 3 at standard cooldown? Because apparently the IS players are a bunch of whining little kids that don't want their shiny toys taken away even though that's exactly what they bitched and moaned to be taken away from Clans, and I'm not even complaining about it being OP against the Clans but imbalanced against a mech whose role it STOLE FROM IT.

I'm sick and tired of that stupid "Just buff it then." solution constantly being ejac.ulated (why is that censored? Am I supposed to ret.ard (and that? Seriously? Is the forums supposed to be a gathering place for people who couldn't pass middle school english?) my vocabulary for people who can't be asked to wipe their own posteriors or something?) from everyone's mouth that doesn't know what they're talking about either. "Just buff it then." is what got us into these bloated mechanics in the first place and are the reason we have mechs running around with 50/60 point alpha strike builds creating a top tier list of a handful of mechs that everyone uses because the rest can no longer compete as the bloated alpha-happy mechanics don't support them.

Side Note: I just realize the Thunderbolt 9S and 9SE are .3 tons short on stock loadouts...uh what?

Edited by MauttyKoray, 19 January 2015 - 10:36 PM.

[CocoaJin]

Aren't the 9S and the Awesome just different versions of the same flavor? Basically the same weapon platform for slightly different roles...basically Battle Cruiser or Armored Cruiser...more armor or more agility, if not speed.

Instead of hating on 9S, why not embrace it as the 1 to your 2 punch?

Edited by CocoaJin, 19 January 2015 - 10:38 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

No, because the mysterious Force of Balance has chosen the Thunderbolt, in its infinite wisdom. Just as the Timber Wolf was chosen before it. And Russ Bullock is powerless to do anything about it. He used to think that the Timber Wolf would always be the best heavy mech, but lo, the Force of Balance did descend from the Heavens and give the Thunderbolt Quirks of Overpoweredness, and the people did rejoice for the Messiah had come to deliver us from Timber Evil.

The Force of Balance works in mysterious ways and we cannot possibly do anything to make the Awesome a good PPC platform with quirks like the Thunderbolt. Nor can we nerf the quirks on the Thunderbolt.

Because reasons.

[Aethon]

LordKnightFandragon, on 19 January 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:

and seriously, just power creeping everything forward is not the way to go.....it really isnt.

It just means when we get like Heavy large lasers they are 30dmg/35 heat, then when we get Railguns, they are going to be 67dmg/35heat, massive CD quirks...and no...

Just tone the TB back and keep balance somewhere around reasonable...

The TB needs to be toned down, not the Awesome buffed, though the Awesome should be buffed somewhat.

Railguns were something that Mektek made up for MW4, just like the mech they added and named after the kid that ghosted himself; hopefully, PGI will not do that stuff.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Brody319, on 19 January 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

I demand the Awesome be Awesome once again!

It was only ever Awesome in the days of the Honey Badger and Fastback.

[MauttyKoray]

CocoaJin, on 19 January 2015 - 10:37 PM, said:

Aren't the 9S and the Awesome just different versions of the same flavor? Basically the same weapon platform for slightly different roles...basically Battle Cruiser or Armored Cruiser...more armor or more agility, if not speed.

Instead of hating on 9S, why not embrace it as the 1 to your 2 punch?

If it weren't the fact that the 9S can essentially outpace the Awesome with 3 ERPPCs then I don't think it would be quite as big of a deal. But the 3ERPPC Awesome, meant to carry 3 of them, is horribly outpaced by heat gen reduction on the Thunderbolt, which even has a cooldown quirk for it too. Now, reduce the Thunderbolt heat gen so its only effective with 2 ERPPCs at most and leave the cooldown quirk and you now have a mech that does not replace the Awesome but it still different and effective in its own right, being able to fire 2 ERPPCs on rotation (and thus freeing the tonnage from the 3rd for other weapons) faster than the Awesome could fire 2. THAT is how you create varied mech loadouts roles, by giving them different way to be used effectively, not just making them better or worse at the exact same job.

[CocoaJin]

Hmmm, well then the solution is simple. Sack up...shoot back!

[LordBraxton]

Lily from animove, on 19 January 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

but cna the awesomes broadside be fixed and keep it being and awesome? I doubt. thast like trying to make the nova not broad as an assault. it would detsroy those mechs designs. the only way to buff this is proper hp compensation. and then this is also defining those mechs an own role, because they cna tank more damage than the tdr, and so making the aws a lower dps but more tanky mech.

In what world can an AWS tank better than a TDR?

[CocoaJin]

MauttyKoray, on 19 January 2015 - 11:15 PM, said:

If it weren't the fact that the 9S can essentially outpace the Awesome with 3 ERPPCs then I don't think it would be quite as big of a deal. But the 3ERPPC Awesome, meant to carry 3 of them, is horribly outpaced by heat gen reduction on the Thunderbolt, which even has a cooldown quirk for it too. Now, reduce the Thunderbolt heat gen so its only effective with 2 ERPPCs at most and leave the cooldown quirk and you now have a mech that does not replace the Awesome but it still different and effective in its own right, being able to fire 2 ERPPCs on rotation (and thus freeing the tonnage from the 3rd for other weapons) faster than the Awesome could fire 2. THAT is how you create varied mech loadouts roles, by giving them different way to be used effectively, not just making them better or worse at the exact same job.

So you have a fast firing platform with less armor...or a slower firing(but still very good) platform with more armor. That seems like two different roles/styles

[Jon Gotham]

MauttyKoray, on 19 January 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:

An Awesome carries 3 and has a hard time alpha'ing twice before needing to cool. I see no reason the quirk should be more than the Awesome's to accommodate up to 2 ER PPCs on it. Carrying 3 on the Thunderbolt is just unreasonable.

That's what I meant, disable the quirk for the Tbolt but allow the Awesome to carry three. Then there would be a reason to bring the awesome.