2112 replies to this topic

[davoodoo]

Requiemking, on 02 August 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

Ninjamando attack.

Seriously if i were to describe that game...

Imagine games workshop running f2p game instead of tabletop wargame and condense their entire existence into 4 years including retconning the lore, blatant favoritism, outrageous pricing and horrible imbalance.

Now if i were to describe f2p model.
Imagine mwo mechbays without free mc from events, add ontop of that mobile cowclicker timers then imagine dhs upgrade costs mc... thats light side of it...i given up after 3 months of daily grind for a 1 of 3 parts required to craft a frame...

Every 3 months new founder pack + stuff removed from the game is being rereleased in cheaper founder pack.

After this you really appreciate mwo buisness model...At least 5k $ will buy you everything in game...

Oh and someone had bright idea of making high damage aoe spammable abilities which bypass terrain.
Effect??

replace f with 4 and thats majority of your time in game...It aint joke, you didnt need bots cause autorepeat macro was equally effective...

Edited by davoodoo, 02 August 2017 - 06:29 PM.

[Honeybadgers]

I 140,000% disagree with you. Warframe has an actual value based pricing model, an extremely friendly, well fleshed out "grind" (it's really just an MMORPG with better combat) with plenty of depth, and hands down one of the NICEST communities of players I've ever seen.

You don't just grind a frame. You're playing it wrong if so. You grind that frame while leveling up other frames and forma'ing your weapons and upgrading your skills and trying new combos... Warframe has a ton of things to do and they all blend pretty seamlessly together. You only really bust out the heavy guns for a single mission that warrants it, the rest of the time, it's all about the cyborg psycho ninja flipout.

It also has expanded itself immensely, is always trying ambitious new things, regularly rebalances things, and has CAREFULLY cultivated its aesthetic and carefully crafted its style and design to a mirror polish. It's one of the most exemplary models in "how to make a F2P game" on the market.

Of course it's not for everyone. it is somewhat grindey, but all MMO's are. That's LITERALLY the point of an mmo.

But let's not derail the thread. Warframe has a much healthier player base than this game for a reason.

Edited by Honeybadgers, 02 August 2017 - 09:30 PM.

[RestosIII]

Honeybadgers, on 02 August 2017 - 09:29 PM, said:

But let's not derail the thread. Warframe has a much healthier player base than this game for a reason.

Warframe is missing the most important thing every good community needs.

ME.

So it's obviously inferior to MW:O's community.

The best outlook you can have as a drop commander.

[davoodoo]

Honeybadgers, on 02 August 2017 - 09:29 PM, said:

I 140,000% disagree with you. Warframe has an actual value based pricing model, an extremely friendly, well fleshed out "grind" (it's really just an MMORPG with better combat) with plenty of depth, and hands down one of the NICEST communities of players I've ever seen.

You don't just grind a frame. You're playing it wrong if so. You grind that frame while leveling up other frames and forma'ing your weapons and upgrading your skills and trying new combos... Warframe has a ton of things to do and they all blend pretty seamlessly together. You only really bust out the heavy guns for a single mission that warrants it, the rest of the time, it's all about the cyborg psycho ninja flipout.

It also has expanded itself immensely, is always trying ambitious new things, regularly rebalances things, and has CAREFULLY cultivated its aesthetic and carefully crafted its style and design to a mirror polish. It's one of the most exemplary models in "how to make a F2P game" on the market.

Of course it's not for everyone. it is somewhat grindey, but all MMO's are. That's LITERALLY the point of an mmo.

But let's not derail the thread. Warframe has a much healthier player base than this game for a reason.

Surely you jest...

Value based model eh?? excalibur is starter frame and one of the most powerful for 75 plat, very weak oberon is 300 if i remember right...
But maybe you mean removing old drops and reselling them for 60$
http://warframe.wiki...iki/Prime_Vault

Idk what you level up, but i can burn through 30 forma during a week and im talking about months long grinds for newest primes. 8hours a day spent grinding keys and running same voids hoping to get sub 0.1% drops at the end of mission...

Expanded yes, added shitton of things to grind every patch or convieniently you can bypass it by paying, that 5000$ wasnt a joke, it wont buy you everything.
I was founder who was in the game since closed beta, i had literally everything you could get before next patch came out and most interesting content weve got in years was space wings...

Rebalance is a funny word, since there is a frame that is immortal...you can pop over 60s immortality on valkyr which you can easily keep going if kill anything at semi regular basis...
Also lets not forget spammable 60m wide aoe cc which completely disables enemies for up to 30s.
One of the biggest complaints founders had when they still played was that there was 0 challenge in the game because youre so comically overpower.

Finally nicest communities?? ill even skip official partners hollier than thou attitude, amount of times you hear ******** during trials is astounding, i was asked by my clannies unironically "why arent you scamming ppl" and oh god dont ever fail defense mission 1 wave before extract, amount of insults thrown your way will be massive up to public shaming if you got some tryhards... But i cant even blame ppl for that, after running 400+ 1 hour missions for the drops its pretty normal to scam ppl and throw tantrums at every failure...

Mwo is somewhat grindey, multiply that by 500 hundred and you got warframe.

Edited by davoodoo, 03 August 2017 - 12:15 AM.

[RestosIII]

davoodoo, on 03 August 2017 - 12:01 AM, said:

Mwo is somewhat grindey, multiply that by 500 hundred and you got warframe.

Most grindy thing I play any more is GTA Online. Just got back into that and the grind is real. Nowhere near the level of an old Korean F2P MMO that I got this name started on, but still. As long as we don't get a new economic crash, C-Bills aren't very hard to get right now.

Also, I need to keep posting gifs to make up for you guys making posts without them.

Spoiler

My actual comeback capabilities ingame when teammates complain about my playstyle/builds.

[davoodoo]

RestosIII, on 03 August 2017 - 12:14 AM, said:

Most grindy thing I play any more is GTA Online. Just got back into that and the grind is real. Nowhere near the level of an old Korean F2P MMO that I got this name started on, but still. As long as we don't get a new economic crash, C-Bills aren't very hard to get right now.

Also, I need to keep posting gifs to make up for you guys making posts without them.

Spoiler

My actual comeback capabilities ingame when teammates complain about my playstyle/builds.

I didnt play gta5.

But i played grinded warframe.

When 1st primes showed up in u8 i had everything new 3 days from release.
By the time rhino prime was added by u9 it already took me week.
By the time u13 hit with loki prime it already was taking me 2 weeks.
u17?? 12 weeks without drop, were talking 8 hours a day.

Korean mmos were less grindy than warframe...
It was great during early days when you just shimmered through star chart and gathered frames, but anything else is just too grindy and reason is very simple, prices for player trading needed to be kept high (up to 50$ worth of premium currency) on top of 160$ founder pack sales and 20$ a piece ingame store...



Ofc all because they needed to "keep lights on" with 20mil $ quarterly net profit...
No wonder 800ppl clan i was in during u8(all veterans having literally everything) shrunk down to 20 ppl by u15. Just before steam release there were thousands of founders, by the time i quit playing ive known of less than 5(excluding me) still playing.
Burnouts were real...

Also only 1 of my posts about it have no gif

Edited by davoodoo, 03 August 2017 - 12:42 AM.

[SnagaDance]

Guys can you stop the Warframe discussion? It's interesting in its own right for sure but really has no place in this thread.

[GA1NAX]

RestosIII, on 30 June 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

[spoiler]

When you and your mate try to gang up on a lone enemy, and both get disarmed.

Feels like we walked out beyond the corner and there is EXE fully cooled with 2CERPPC and Dual HeLLas.




Fk I hate Glads ant their pilots.

Edited by GA1NAX, 03 August 2017 - 08:33 AM.

[GA1NAX]

Andi Nagasia, on 25 May 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

When the Enemy is Pushing into you, and a 4LRM15+A CAT is leading the charge,

Your readings wrong... it's a 4xMRM20 or 2xMRM40 CAT.




Or... 4xATM9/2xATM12... clanner...

[GA1NAX]

When you shoot LRM's to an such rare mech as EXE and suddently find out that the mech is fully mastered and you miss...



... You...




... HIM....

[GA1NAX]

When you find out that enemy ain't got a single AMS and you drive CP10Q with 50LRMs build.

[davoodoo]

GA1NAX, on 03 August 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

When you find out that enemy ain't got a single AMS and you drive CP10Q with 50LRMs build.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a8c42c8a09fdbb9

Edited by davoodoo, 03 August 2017 - 08:54 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

davoodoo, on 03 August 2017 - 12:01 AM, said:

Surely you jest...

Value based model eh?? excalibur is starter frame and one of the most powerful for 75 plat, very weak oberon is 300 if i remember right...
But maybe you mean removing old drops and reselling them for 60$
http://warframe.wiki...iki/Prime_Vault

Idk what you level up, but i can burn through 30 forma during a week and im talking about months long grinds for newest primes. 8hours a day spent grinding keys and running same voids hoping to get sub 0.1% drops at the end of mission...

Expanded yes, added shitton of things to grind every patch or convieniently you can bypass it by paying, that 5000$ wasnt a joke, it wont buy you everything.
I was founder who was in the game since closed beta, i had literally everything you could get before next patch came out and most interesting content weve got in years was space wings...

Rebalance is a funny word, since there is a frame that is immortal...you can pop over 60s immortality on valkyr which you can easily keep going if kill anything at semi regular basis...
Also lets not forget spammable 60m wide aoe cc which completely disables enemies for up to 30s.
One of the biggest complaints founders had when they still played was that there was 0 challenge in the game because youre so comically overpower.

Finally nicest communities?? ill even skip official partners hollier than thou attitude, amount of times you hear ******** during trials is astounding, i was asked by my clannies unironically "why arent you scamming ppl" and oh god dont ever fail defense mission 1 wave before extract, amount of insults thrown your way will be massive up to public shaming if you got some tryhards... But i cant even blame ppl for that, after running 400+ 1 hour missions for the drops its pretty normal to scam ppl and throw tantrums at every failure...

Mwo is somewhat grindey, multiply that by 500 hundred and you got warframe.

Months long grind? Wtf? Dude, it takes a weekend to farm a prime weapon/frame.

This might have been true in 2013-2014, I wouldn't know, but I've been playing since 2016 (1737 hours so far), and I can legitimately say most of your complaints range between exaggerated to non-existent at this time.

Not to mention that you literally need to pay 0 dollars to get every piece of equipment other than the founders exclusive Excal Prime, Lato Prime, and Skana Prime. Literally every other piece of equipment, including primes can be farmed.

Even vaulted stuff gets unvaulted, and you can run missions to get them. When they release a new prime frame (Hydroid Prime is coming up, btw), you can go and do the missions to farm its parts, along with those of the weapon.

This would be like MWO releasing a new mech pack, and letting you get all the mechs by playing matches, for free.

Btw, the clan I'm in started with 200 players in January of 2016 when I joined it. We're at 1000 players in the main clan, with 3 other sub clans as part of our alliance, totaling around 2000 players. Managing clan members, and keeping them engaged helps a ton with presence. (we have an activity policy of kicking a player if they are inactive for 15 days. We still maintain such high numbers even with that in effect)

Hate it if you want, but you're quite off the mark taking the last 535 days I've been playing it (yep, I log in, and play every day).

I would also recommend taking a look at the Plains of Eidolon reveal they did a few weeks ago.

IMPORTANT EDIT: This is not to say the game has no flaws, or that it is not grindy at all. Oh it is grindy, and it has flaws. It works for some people, and it doesn't work for others. However, there's a reason it's in the top 10 most played games on Steam consistently.

---

Back to the real topic at hand: GIFS THAT DESCRIBE MWO EXPERIENCES!!!

Spoiler

When you're feeling on top of the world after a good match, only to be greeted by a 10 second run on the next one.


When you're the last one alive, while the enemy team has 5 fresh mechs, and your teammates are yelling at you to win the match


When you and another player you recognize from the forums team up and demolish the enemy team


sneaking up on an enemy assault by using stealth armor

Edited by IraqiWalker, 03 August 2017 - 03:20 PM.

[davoodoo]

IraqiWalker, on 03 August 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

Months long grind? Wtf? Dude, it takes a weekend to farm a prime weapon/frame.

This might have been true in 2013-2014, I wouldn't know, but I've been playing since 2016 (1737 hours so far), and I can legitimately say most of your complaints range between exaggerated to non-existent at this time.

Not to mention that you literally need to pay 0 dollars to get every piece of equipment other than the founders exclusive Excal Prime, Lato Prime, and Skana Prime. Literally every other piece of equipment, including primes can be farmed.

Even vaulted stuff gets unvaulted, and you can run missions to get them. When they release a new prime frame (Hydroid Prime is coming up, btw), you can go and do the missions to farm its parts, along with those of the weapon.

This would be like MWO releasing a new mech pack, and letting you get all the mechs by playing matches, for free.

Btw, the clan I'm in started with 200 players in January of 2016 when I joined it. We're at 1000 players in the main clan, with 3 other sub clans as part of our alliance, totaling around 2000 players. Managing clan members, and keeping them engaged helps a ton with presence. (we have an activity policy of kicking a player if they are inactive for 15 days. We still maintain such high numbers even with that in effect)

Hate it if you want, but you're quite off the mark taking the last 535 days I've been playing it (yep, I log in, and play every day).

I would also recommend taking a look at the Plains of Eidolon reveal they did a few weeks ago.

IMPORTANT EDIT: This is not to say the game has no flaws, or that it is not grindy at all. Oh it is grindy, and it has flaws. It works for some people, and it doesn't work for others. However, there's a reason it's in the top 10 most played games on Steam consistently.

---

Back to the real topic at hand: GIFS THAT DESCRIBE MWO EXPERIENCES!!!

Spoiler

When you're feeling on top of the world after a good match, only to be greeted by a 10 second run on the next one.


When you're the last one alive, while the enemy team has 5 fresh mechs, and your teammates are yelling at you to win the match


When you and another player you recognize from the forums team up and demolish the enemy team


sneaking up on an enemy assault by using stealth armor

I played it since 2013, with nearly 3k hours

Yes it was months long grind with up to 600+ runs for newest primes. Unless you shilled out plat...so you dont pay in dollars, you pay in dollar equivalent with no way to create it in game...

No it would like mwo releasing new mech, allowing you to earn supply cache and having mech broken into 3 parts dropping from 3 different caches at rarity matching current mech drops from those.
Or you can occasionally get crap uac5 or some **** which someone will maybe buy for 20-40mc till someone sells you their new mech drops for 2000+ and then youll wait for an event so you can get your dhs and endo steel or you can unlock it instantly for 100mc.

Oh and vaulting, imagine that tomorrow lets say clan invasion mechs disappear and you can only get them in above mentioned way once a year.

Edit: datamined drop tables for sorties
http://i.imgur.com/wcbJeU0.png
0.17% chance, thats what?? statistically 600 runs?? but these are just exaggerated horror stories...
http://warframe.wiki...ki/Thread:72949
these were old tables back from u8 and these were on the high side with each drop having higher chance on certain difficulty.

Edited by davoodoo, 04 August 2017 - 12:53 AM.

[RestosIII]

Quick one while dropping into a match.

Pulse Laser firing line.

[Requiemking]

Me actually deciding to be semi-serious when playing a Light mech.

[Athom83]

When you run an Atlas D and can spare 20 points of armor for your back.

Edited by Athom83, 05 August 2017 - 02:33 PM.

[RestosIII]

When a player takes command and starts laying out a plan, and one of the first things they say is that we're going left.

[IraqiWalker]

davoodoo, on 03 August 2017 - 03:29 PM, said:

Oh and vaulting, imagine that tomorrow lets say clan invasion mechs disappear and you can only get them in above mentioned way once a year.

Edit: datamined drop tables for sorties
http://i.imgur.com/wcbJeU0.png
0.17% chance, thats what?? statistically 600 runs?? but these are just exaggerated horror stories...
http://warframe.wiki...ki/Thread:72949
these were old tables back from u8 and these were on the high side with each drop having higher chance on certain difficulty.

1- Vaulting in that example would only work if MWO was an exclusively PVP game. Which it is no.

2- unlike MWO, we have a trade system in Warframe. That's why you can still even buy/trade for full sets from other players a year+ after the frame has been vaulted.

There is no parallel to MWO here, since MWO has no economy.

3- that's 0.17% chance PER ENEMY These mods are all literally the most common of commons mods. Context is important here. This isn't per sortie, this is per enemy. An average run will net you several hundred kills per mission. So yes, 0.17% sounds reasonable, because it's put up against hundreds of kills per mission. If you want, I'll post how many duplicates of these 0.17% mods I have (take that I regularly donate 1 of each to new clan members)

The ones for sorties are actually quite reasonable. Every single one of these items is obtainable by regular alerts, except for the legendary core. The single most powerful item in the game. That one deserves its rarity. The exilus adapter, is also a lot easier to get from Simaris (btw, the lvl5 fusion core is actually x4, and is no longer in the game because the fusion core system was overhauled about 8 months ago, or so)

4- If you want to talk about farming back during the days of keys, you're also exaggerating there. Most of us were doing 40 wave/minute runs and will usually get the prime part we want in those.

By the way, that system was improved, and upgraded many moons ago.

Basically, your complaints are still somewhere between exaggerated, or non-existent.

Again: Hate it if you want, but you can't call one of the top 10 most played games on steam "bad".

Also, as someone who played both MWO, and WF, I can safely say MWO is more grindy, despite the fact that it's not supposed to be an MMO, while WF is. This skill tree upgrade helped in some regards, and harmed in others.

Now, I'm not here to say which is the better game. They are 100% different (it would be like comparing apples and motorcycles), and made by two different companies (DE imo has infinitely better community engagement, and involvement, and that's the companies, not the games).

All I'm saying is that they've fixed almost everything you complained about, and that some of what you said is misleading, or misunderstood at best.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 04 August 2017 - 04:49 PM.

[davoodoo]

IraqiWalker, on 04 August 2017 - 04:46 PM, said:

1- Vaulting in that example would only work if MWO was an exclusively PVP game. Which it is no.

2- unlike MWO, we have a trade system in Warframe. That's why you can still even buy/trade for full sets from other players a year+ after the frame has been vaulted.

There is no parallel to MWO here, since MWO has no economy.

3- that's 0.17% chance PER ENEMY These mods are all literally the most common of commons mods. Context is important here. This isn't per sortie, this is per enemy. An average run will net you several hundred kills per mission. So yes, 0.17% sounds reasonable, because it's put up against hundreds of kills per mission. If you want, I'll post how many duplicates of these 0.17% mods I have (take that I regularly donate 1 of each to new clan members)

The ones for sorties are actually quite reasonable. Every single one of these items is obtainable by regular alerts, except for the legendary core. The single most powerful item in the game. That one deserves its rarity. The exilus adapter, is also a lot easier to get from Simaris (btw, the lvl5 fusion core is actually x4, and is no longer in the game because the fusion core system was overhauled about 8 months ago, or so)

4- If you want to talk about farming back during the days of keys, you're also exaggerating there. Most of us were doing 40 wave/minute runs and will usually get the prime part we want in those.

By the way, that system was improved, and upgraded many moons ago.

Basically, your complaints are still somewhere between exaggerated, or non-existent.

Again: Hate it if you want, but you can't call one of the top 10 most played games on steam "bad".

Also, as someone who played both MWO, and WF, I can safely say MWO is more grindy, despite the fact that it's not supposed to be an MMO, while WF is. This skill tree upgrade helped in some regards, and harmed in others.

Now, I'm not here to say which is the better game. They are 100% different (it would be like comparing apples and motorcycles), and made by two different companies (DE imo has infinitely better community engagement, and involvement, and that's the companies, not the games).

All I'm saying is that they've fixed almost everything you complained about, and that some of what you said is misleading, or misunderstood at best.

1.no, that analogy is correct...

2.except all trading is done with premium currency and all premium currency is paid for. Plat aint free and they got incentive to raise prices by lowering drop chances

3.no, these are per sortie rewards... exilus adapter 0.17%, legendary core 0.17%

exilus adapter, you can get maybe 3 such alerts per month?? hope you are awake.

4.yes, ppl were doing 60 mins runs(or at least i were with my clanmates) and it ended in burning through 400 keys every 3 months before we got the drops.

and improved isnt what i would call it, as now you burn through 4 times as many keys and cant rely on other ppl keys, so now amount of grind is tripled, not only i need to farm my own keys, then i need to rad my keys and then i need to farm my rewards.
huzzah

Which brings me to the point, most ppl said **** its easier to just farm ducat fodder and buy parts with plat which leds for further lowering drop chances until final gambit on de part, namely removing older drops to increase price on them, no more 20p for frost prime which was actually decent bargain for new players, overnight price jumped to 900p meaning **** your frost prime...

Warframe was decent, but with succes it got fat and glutonous.
http://steamcharts.com/top
top9 right above payday2 with something along the lines of 1/20th its budget, less content updates and no microtransactions.
i wont call it bad, ill call it mediocre succes for f2p with mass appeal.

Also lets take some actual metric for mwo and warframe.
mwo
Playtime total:24:54 (average) 00:49 (median)
warframe
Playtime total: 70:15 (average) 04:29 (median)

and as control
path of exile
Playtime total: 62:50 (average) 04:19 (median)
black deset online(actual korean style grinder)
Playtime total: 57:26 (average) 08:00 (median)
planetside 2
Playtime total: 25:37 (average) 02:26 (median)

I mean sure nearly 3 times as much playtime on average...i guess they all just enjoy game without grinding at all...

Ive even downloaded it again after year break hoping that you actually speak the truth... so far all problems are compounded instead of fixed...

new resource for new weapons to restart grind all over again and lets not forget everyones favorite argon with half life of 24h
4 radiant keys still dropping 4x most common reward 5 times in row
new points to enter boss fight for a chance at drops
new rng mods which drop only at daily sortie+1 as quest reward(so far 3 days without any) and have chance to be better than anything before them...
old functionality locked behind arbitrary challenges...thx junctions, youre so good addition.
80% of new weapons were relegated to research yet again.
at least dressup is all intact with new suits for operators(which you see for less than a minute during 60 minutes runs) and melee weapon holster locations(copying from other weapon types)...
also i can still pop 4 on ember and go just run through mission, it indeed needed all that new powercreep guns because all that new content is just so much more challenging... no wait these are still 30lvl enemies which we fought back in u7 with 1/20th of firepower...

I get a feeling de would do great if they released mobile barbie game, everything in warframe fits that concept just fine.

Edited by davoodoo, 04 August 2017 - 05:48 PM.