769 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

BoldricKent, on 31 January 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

I was making a point not statement of fact...i could overlook up to 70-75 with tweak(which is what 110-130 engine rating), but 124..huh, thats almost triple of original speed... it far to much in current meta, speed is life.
But thx for info..didnt know PGI made engine cap public.

Speed is life. An urbie at 70kph would be basically "stock" as per all our other mechs, as a Commando stock is 97kph but can do 170kph in game.

However, an Urbie at 70kph would be useless. It'd just die. If you can't at least keep away from Mediums, in MWO with convergence and such the Urbie would just be taken apart instantly. A heavy or medium would be able to hold it in range, and a light moving at 70kph would each maybe 2 alphas and die.

At ~100kph, the Urbie will still not be a competitive light under any circumstances, but it'll at least be viable for use in PUG play.

They have to consider usability in game vs. Lore Correctness, and pick a middle ground that works for everyone. For those who want Slow Urbies, yay! You can run them at whatever speed you like. For those who want Urbies at 100kph so they can actually contribute to matches? Yay! They can do that too. The only people unhappy are those who are mad that some players Will Have Fun Wrong.

All the while, the Urbie remains the slowest IS light, and comparable to slow Clan lights. It's tremendously slow for a light, but still usable without gimping your team. Seems a good compromise for me. Everyone gets the Urbie they want to use.

But, it's a moot point now. The Urbie is confirmed at 100kph, 180-210 engine cap. [childish]Nya nya, we win![/childish]

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 January 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

yeah unfortunately, that doesn't really make a very solid guideline for estimating orders, as I would bet a higher percentage of non forumites would jump on the Timby for INstance than the Urbie. (Note also, I am saying percentage, not total sales, which would be expected)

Yeah, I suspect that an unusual percentage of Urbielovers are also Forumites, not the normal player vs. forumite ratio. No idea how it actually works out though.

At a 50-50 split of regular and collectors packs, we can use $30 per buyer. 200 buyers? $6000. That may be worth a couple days time for a modeller and a texture artist, and a day or two of design work.

Not necessarily a very profitable venture, but even if it's a neutral endeavour for them, they gain mountains of love and goodwill. Pretty worthwhile, IMHO (but being that I desperated want my Urbie, I may be biased!)

Actually, I'm pretty sure they'll sell more collectors packs vs. regular ones, as the collectors pack bonuses are so good that they're basically worth the $40 before the mechs are even considered.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 31 January 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

Yeah, I suspect that an unusual percentage of Urbielovers are also Forumites, not the normal player vs. forumite ratio. No idea how it actually works out though.

At a 50-50 split of regular and collectors packs, we can use $30 per buyer. 200 buyers? $6000. That may be worth a couple days time for a modeller and a texture artist, and a day or two of design work.

Not necessarily a very profitable venture, but even if it's a neutral endeavour for them, they gain mountains of love and goodwill. Pretty worthwhile, IMHO (but being that I desperated want my Urbie, I may be biased!)

Actually, I'm pretty sure they'll sell more collectors packs vs. regular ones, as the collectors pack bonuses are so good that they're basically worth the $40 before the mechs are even considered.

i think on another thread someone had counted the individual buyers back about monday, and it was like 233 or something like that. Figure that on my thread alone another 30 were added since, so probably 300 or so who actually bothered to post, and if even we had a truly unusual forum to player ratio represented, I would guess a minimum of 500 sold to make it worth the time, since I think they said it was something like 15k to model a mech, way back when.

[BoldricKent]

While reading forums about topic, deciding to chip in or not, speed of torso twist is bound to engine size ?
So even with its 360 arc, with smaller engine, Urbie will have trouble keeping with light flankers ?
And riding with 100kph while doing 360 rotation...huh...
But i disagree, Urbi should move with assault class peace, while having speedy torso twist, that should
be its signature.
Thx to you guys, i might someday test one.
And ill admit, art of this game, well mech models, are really good.

[Wintersdark]

BoldricKent, on 31 January 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

While reading forums about topic, deciding to chip in or not, speed of torso twist is bound to engine size ?
So even with its 360 arc, with smaller engine, Urbie will have trouble keeping with light flankers ?
And riding with 100kph while doing 360 rotation...huh...

Twist speed is modified by engine size, but also by chassis quirks. Two mechs with the same engine will usually twist at different rates. Larger engines always increase twist speed though.

Quote

But i disagree, Urbi should move with assault class peace, while having speedy torso twist, that should
be its signature.

In TT, that's relatively fine. It affects tactics and strategy, but has far less impact on how it takes damage. In MWO, it would result in the Urbie being killed pretty much instantly, unavoidably. In MWO, all lights at a given tonnage have the same armor, and even if it's armor/structure were quirked (they probably will be), it's not going to make a big difference. A light moving at 60kph would get torn apart due to convergence: Basically, moving at 60kph means even very average players would never, ever miss your legs, and your legs would be an ideal target because of the torso twisting. You'd lose a leg per alpha, even from most mediums, so the moment you encountered say a hunchback, you'd live ~4 seconds.


Consider: How long does it take you to kill a legged Raven? That's what you'd be doing. A legged light runs at 40kph.

Bishop Steiner, on 31 January 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

i think on another thread someone had counted the individual buyers back about monday, and it was like 233 or something like that. Figure that on my thread alone another 30 were added since, so probably 300 or so who actually bothered to post, and if even we had a truly unusual forum to player ratio represented, I would guess a minimum of 500 sold to make it worth the time, since I think they said it was something like 15k to model a mech, way back when.

Pretty reasonable. If they ended up selling 400, at an average of $30, they'd make $12000. Given that this is an opportunity cost vs. an actual dollar expendature (using salaried artists/modellers/designers time), that's a fairly small investment to for something that will earn them tremendous <3's.

Edited by Wintersdark, 31 January 2015 - 02:22 PM.

[Nekomimi]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 January 2015 - 12:23 PM, said:

/WANT

So it looks that 100kph(+/-) is where it's going to sit, and that F.E.E.L.S. like the perfect spot for it. Heck, the Hunchback can only go 98kph max engine and speed tweak.
So if you take what the Urbie is supposed to be, the essence what of the actual 'mech is supposed to F.E.E.L. like, ignoring irrelevant numbers, and apply that to how MWO works as a whole. This is being implemented spot on exactly how it should be.

[Lord Perversor]

i got mine of course the Deadly trashcan of doom is a must.

[storm0545]

i wanted to buy it but i dont have a credit card and they wont accept karma koin

[Brody319]

storm0545, on 31 January 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:

i wanted to buy it but i dont have a credit card and they wont accept karma koin

have you tried contacting support? they might work something out.

[Ovion]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 January 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

i think on another thread someone had counted the individual buyers back about monday, and it was like 233 or something like that. Figure that on my thread alone another 30 were added since, so probably 300 or so who actually bothered to post, and if even we had a truly unusual forum to player ratio represented, I would guess a minimum of 500 sold to make it worth the time, since I think they said it was something like 15k to model a mech, way back when.

I think that was me.

I can always go and update it, I put in measures so I could if I wanted

[storm0545]

Brody319, on 31 January 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

have you tried contacting support? they might work something out.

i askedin an email but nothing came about from it and i tried using a prepaid gift card but sadly found out after the fact it didn't allow international purchases so for now I'm sol on both the resistance pack and urbanmech.

[Jon Gotham]

I was going to-then the voip was announced. I'll have to see how that goes before any more money gets spent on MWO.

[BoldricKent]

Its situational, if mech is alone...yup it will be killed of in sec. But in middle of assault lance, taking care
of flankers and supporting push...should be ok, and that its role. Not a fast flanker, stabber...for that you can choose
other lights. Each mech has its envelope, pushing out of its role...it will be far less successful.
Dont forget it has tick armor for it size and usually big gun.

I agree speed will kill its competitiveness, but if you stuck with same mind set all the time, all mech will be alike at the end.. .To address that, you need roll playing and before mentioned price could help with that( let say a Lucust kills Atlas,
which is about 3-4 times more expensive... shouldnt reward reflect that ?)
If you bend to min/max...youll start getting same answers and solutions.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

I remember the day I stole my first Urbanmech, like it was yesterday.

Signed up for a local arena battle on some backwater the snakes had just taken over....blasted a hole in the city barrier wall, and jumped out of there...

I can give PGI a nice $20 cookie for making this happen. Of course I can.

[Ovion]

Quote

Total confirmed Urbanmech Sales:
Total stated 'Bought' (Assumed Standard, could be Collectors): 95 Value: US$1,900 (GB£1,273)
Total Confirmed Standard: 35 Value: US$700 (GB£469)
Total Confirmed Collectors: 136 Value: US$5,440 (GB£3,645)

Total Confirmed Packs: 266 Value: US$8,040 (GB£5,387)
This is as of the end of January 2015, 11 days from it being available (on 20/01/2015 at 10AM PST), and only confirmed purchases.

51% or greater of all packages purchased, that have been confirmed, are Collectors packs.

Quote

The Urbanmech was confirmed for release as of Monday the 26th of January and will be released on the 7th of April.

If you purchased or redeemed your Urbanmech on or before 31/01/2015, you will receive:
Urbanmech Collectors Pack: US$40 (est GB£28)
3x Urbanmech (Inc 1 Hero) est 5,000MC
3 Mechbays 900MC
12x Premium Cockpit Item est 9,750MC
60 Days Premium Time 5,000MC
Premium Camo 1,250MC
2 Modules (9,000,000C-Bills) 3,600MC
Total Value - est 25,500MC
Probably call it 25,000MC for ease.
Equivalent Value - US$99.95 (GB£67)

Urbanmech Standard Pack: US$20 (est GB£14)
3x Urbanmech est 4,000MC
3 Mechbays 900MC
6x Premium Cockpit Item est 4,000MC
30 Days Premium Time 2,500MC
Premium Camo 1,250MC
2 Modules (9,000,000C-Bills) 3,600MC
Total Value - est 16,250MC
Probably call it 16,000MC for ease.
Equivalent Value - US$64 (GB£43)

If you purchased or redeemed your Urbanmech on or after 01/02/2015, you will receive:
Urbanmech Collectors Pack: US$40 (est GB£28)
3x Urbanmech (Inc 1 Hero) est 5,000MC
3 Mechbays 900MC
9x Premium Cockpit Item est 7,500MC
60 Days Premium Time 5,000MC
Total Value - est 18,400MC
Equivalent Value - US$75 (GB£50)

Urbanmech Standard Pack: US$20 (est GB£14)
3x Urbanmech est 4,000MC
3 Mechbays 900MC
3x Premium Cockpit Item est 2,500MC
30 Days Premium Time 2,500MC
Total Value - est 9,900MC
Equivalent Value - US$40 (GB£28)

Edited by Ovion, 31 January 2015 - 06:36 PM.

[movingtarget]

I got the 20 bux pack

I do hope they add in some content for the urbanmech, A 12 man urban mech team vs a lance of assaults or 2 lances of heavys and meeds would be fun .

[Brody319]

Think a large problem is how many people think PGI is making the urbanmech a big deal.
Its extremely unlikely for them to make a new map, or a game mode just because of the urbanmech
most likely they will make the urbanmech and thats it

Hell the way Russ talked it sounds like they weren't even really interested in doing the urbanmech, we had to sell enough packages for them to justify making it at all. Its not like Russ and PGI was gushing and eager to get started and build the urbanmech, more just "you guys serious? alright I guess we can do that"

[Wintersdark]

BoldricKent, on 31 January 2015 - 02:51 PM, said:

Its situational, if mech is alone...yup it will be killed of in sec. But in middle of assault lance, taking care
of flankers and supporting push...should be ok, and that its role. Not a fast flanker, stabber...for that you can choose
other lights. Each mech has its envelope, pushing out of its role...it will be far less successful.
Dont forget it has tick armor for it size and usually big gun.

I agree speed will kill its competitiveness, but if you stuck with same mind set all the time, all mech will be alike at the end.. .To address that, you need roll playing and before mentioned price could help with that( let say a Lucust kills Atlas,
which is about 3-4 times more expensive... shouldnt reward reflect that ?)
If you bend to min/max...youll start getting same answers and solutions.

You're applying an extreme to this, and there's a world of grey between black and white.

An urbie hanging with an assault lance will still die instantly, because:

A: It can be flattened in at most two alphas, removing firepower (potentially flanking firepower, and rear-defending firepower) with minimal effort. As such, it's an important target in that group of mechs.
B: It'd be an extrodinarily easy kill. Players are pretty simple that way, they're extremely kill-hungry. Given a hard kill and an easy kill, they'll almost always take the easy kill... particularly when said easy kill is packing a big(ish) gun, and needs to be dealt with.

100kph isn't "bending to min/max". At 100kph, the Urbie (almost) certainly won't be a competitive mech. Pretty much nobody expects it to be one. It's not going to hold a candle to Jenners, Firestarters, or even ECM Ravens and Spiders.

100kph is making the Urbanmech viable in regular play. Not optimal (what the competitive set look for) but viable.

At 70kph, it wouldn't be viable in regular play at all.

Brody319, on 31 January 2015 - 07:15 PM, said:

Think a large problem is how many people think PGI is making the urbanmech a big deal.
Its extremely unlikely for them to make a new map, or a game mode just because of the urbanmech
most likely they will make the urbanmech and thats it

Hell the way Russ talked it sounds like they weren't even really interested in doing the urbanmech, we had to sell enough packages for them to justify making it at all. Its not like Russ and PGI was gushing and eager to get started and build the urbanmech, more just "you guys serious? alright I guess we can do that"

People think PGI is making the Urbanmech a big deal? Who? I can't say I've seen anyone say that.

From the start, PGI has been largely uninterested in the Urbanmech, and Russ actually said in the Townhall that he felt we were punking him all along, and that we didn't really want it.

That's why I think this is a great move from PGI. They're giving us something we really want, even though it's not going to be particularly profitable to them. At best, it'll probably be a bit of a wash. But it's buying a lot of goodwill

[Brody319]

Wintersdark, on 31 January 2015 - 07:29 PM, said:

You're applying an extreme to this, and there's a world of grey between black and white.

An urbie hanging with an assault lance will still die instantly, because:

A: It can be flattened in at most two alphas, removing firepower (potentially flanking firepower, and rear-defending firepower) with minimal effort. As such, it's an important target in that group of mechs.
B: It'd be an extrodinarily easy kill. Players are pretty simple that way, they're extremely kill-hungry. Given a hard kill and an easy kill, they'll almost always take the easy kill... particularly when said easy kill is packing a big(ish) gun, and needs to be dealt with.

100kph isn't "bending to min/max". At 100kph, the Urbie (almost) certainly won't be a competitive mech. Pretty much nobody expects it to be one. It's not going to hold a candle to Jenners, Firestarters, or even ECM Ravens and Spiders.

100kph is making the Urbanmech viable in regular play. Not optimal (what the competitive set look for) but viable.

At 70kph, it wouldn't be viable in regular play at all.


People think PGI is making the Urbanmech a big deal? Who? I can't say I've seen anyone say that.

From the start, PGI has been largely uninterested in the Urbanmech, and Russ actually said in the Townhall that he felt we were punking him all along, and that we didn't really want it.

That's why I think this is a great move from PGI. They're giving us something we really want, even though it's not going to be particularly profitable to them. At best, it'll probably be a bit of a wash. But it's buying a lot of goodwill

what I mean with people thinking PGI will make it a big deal. is the people asking for like "an urban map" or a "map selector" for the urbanmech. or the people asking for urbanmech only gamemodes. ect ect.

PGI isn't going to make a ton of content for this game just because of this mech.

usually the same people who want the urbanmech to go under 80 kph. because "lore" rather than making the urbie go a decent speed, they prefer if PGI makes an entirely new map, gamemode, changing drop conditions ect ect, to make it viable, rather than just giving it a bigger engine cap.

[Wintersdark]

Brody319, on 31 January 2015 - 07:42 PM, said:

what I mean with people thinking PGI will make it a big deal. is the people asking for like "an urban map" or a "map selector" for the urbanmech. or the people asking for urbanmech only gamemodes. ect ect.

PGI isn't going to make a ton of content for this game just because of this mech.

usually the same people who want the urbanmech to go under 80 kph. because "lore" rather than making the urbie go a decent speed, they prefer if PGI makes an entirely new map, gamemode, changing drop conditions ect ect, to make it viable, rather than just giving it a bigger engine cap.

Ooooh I understand, and agree completely.

It's just what amounts to a gift to us, a "Here: You asked, we delivered". There's certainly not going to be Urbanmech specific maps and/or game modes - though I'd imagine we'll probably see a denser Urban map before too long, because why not?