480 replies to this topic

[Almond Brown]

Willard Phule, on 21 January 2015 - 06:32 AM, said:

Hell, for that matter, why are we constrained to corridors in the first place? We should be able to go where the hell we want, attack where the hell we want. It's not as if we've got some kind of supreme military commander with some kind of master plan. It's a free for all.

Sure many would go for that, but it would require Travels times to make things "real". Dropship to Jumpship at Nadir Point 5-7 days. Jumpship max jump 30 LY, Dropships from Nadir to Orbit, 5-7 days.

So let's tell PGI to go for it.

Then you tell your Team to load into their Dropships and head to the Jumpships today and then after a roughly 10-15 day travel period, be ready as they will be attacking enemy Planet XYZ. Return to base travel time, also 10-15 days...

Edited by Almond Brown, 21 January 2015 - 08:02 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Many of you are missing a few of the important 'trees of this forest', I'll repeat them:

Two of the accounts are ALREADY no longer active/alive accounts. I don't even know how to kill an account in this forum software sufficiently that it can no longer be found, WITHOUT administrative intervention, so that fact alone should tell us something about TWO of those 'rogue' accounts, and suggests that some extreme action from PGI occurred...

All but maybe 2 of the rest have existed less than a month:

Member Since 27 May 2012
Member Since 05 Sep 2013
Member Since 27 Dec 2014
Member Since 28 Dec 2014
Member Since 29 Apr 2014
Member Since 30 Dec 2014
Member Since 31 Dec 2014
Member Since 31 Dec 2014
Member Since 16 Jan 2015
Member Since Yesterday, 10:01 PM

From a common perspective within the Davion faction those accounts were created SOLELY for the purpose of griefing TWO factions, Davion and Stiener.

Most of them didn't exist before December, and those that did exist prior, appeared to be dormant accounts not commonly used.

This isn't a matter of a well known group of people with an established web site and communication with individuals who are known to the community, say like, Aces Wild saying, "Screw RRB, HHoD, etc. etc. etc., we're gonna go attack Steiner because their big blue fist emblem is pornographic and must be eliminated."

This is 12 people creating new accounts or using old inactive alt accounts for no other purpose than to have ONE ally attack another ally, and cause ONE ally to have to pull units from a very active front deal with the situation.

Yes, right now planets are just a place to hang a TAG but as mentioned by others SOON there will be tangible benefits to controlling planets, and this sort of activity can really screw over thousands of people.

Something should be done to reign it in or at least provide means of it being dealt with internally.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 21 January 2015 - 07:42 AM.

[nehebkau]

I think the point is:

If you are doing it to provide advantage to your primary account or to your primary faction / alliance then it is WRONG and both accounts should be banned.

If you are doing it because you just want to have variety and fun playing as different people / facets of your personality -- fill your boots and have fun.

If you are doing it to grief -- harass -- spitefully give a negative game-play experience to other players then both / all of your accounts should be banned.

Edited by nehebkau, 21 January 2015 - 07:45 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 January 2015 - 07:24 AM, said:

However It shows an Ally that the larger faction is in fact, true to wanting an alliance.


Or if the The Man want to remain The MAN, he needs to be allowed to deal with rebels. Loyal House units, that Handle the situation. OR negotiation. But again:

If "The Man" wants to deal with them, they surely can. Track the rogue groups movements and simply counteract their actions and make it known that is is being done on behalf of the affected Ally.

When the rogue groups attacks an allied planet, send troops to defend and kick some buttocks. If the rebels get enough skin torn off their arses, they may simply move on to easier targets.

Problem solved and the Alliance is shown to be strong and enforced against those who would see it destroyed.

[Sprouticus]

Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

Many of you are missing a few of the important 'trees of this forest', I'll repeat them:

Two of the accounts are ALREADY no longer active/alive accounts. I don't even know how to kill an account in this forum software sufficiently that it can no longer be found, WITHOUT administrative intervention, so that fact alone should tell us something about TWO of those 'rogue' accounts, and suggests that some extreme action from PGI occurred...

All but maybe 2 of the rest have existed less than a month:

Member Since 27 May 2012
Member Since 05 Sep 2013
Member Since 27 Dec 2014
Member Since 28 Dec 2014
Member Since 29 Apr 2014
Member Since 30 Dec 2014
Member Since 31 Dec 2014
Member Since 31 Dec 2014
Member Since 16 Jan 2015
Member Since Yesterday, 10:01 PM

From a common perspective within the Davion faction those accounts were created SOLELY for the purpose of griefing TWO factions, Davion and Stiener.

Most of them didn't exist before December, and those that did exist prior, appeared to be dormant accounts not commonly used.

This isn't a matter of a well known group of people with an established web site and communication with individuals who are known to the community, say like, Aces Wild saying, "Screw RRB, HHoD, etc. etc. etc., we're gonna go attack Steiner because their big blue fist emblem is pornographic and must be eliminated."

This is 12 people creating new accounts or using old inactive alt accounts for no other purpose than to have ONE ally attack another ally, and cause ONE ally to have to pull units from a very active front deal with the situation.

Yes, right now planets are just a place to hang a TAG but as mentioned by others SOON there will be tangible benefits to controlling planets, and this sort of activity can really screw over thousands of people.

Something should be done to reign it in or at least provide means of it being dealt with internally.

I agree with you are disagree with you.


I think the faction should select the next planet to be attacked during ceasefire (voting system on website?) or some other mechanism should be used to limit the attack corridors and thus allow for alliances and such indirectly. I would love this in fact.


But until then, PGI has setup a system and using that system, seems fine.

[Dimento Graven]

Almond Brown, on 21 January 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

If "The Man" wants to deal with them, they surely can. Track the rogue groups movements and simply counteract their actions and make it known that is is being done on behalf of the affected Ally.

When the rogue groups attacks an allied planet, send troops to defend and kick some buttocks. If the rebels get enough skin torn off their arses, they may simply move on to easier targets.

Problem solved and the Alliance is shown to be strong and enforced against those who would see it destroyed.

Ok, you're being intentionally ignorant of the actual situation here. This isn't simply a situation where it's no big deal to send 12 active CW players to deal with one lone group of malcontents.

When you send an entire company from one front to another, it weakens the former front.

Since this is obviously being done by 12 (now 10 because it looks to me 2 of them were banned) individuals cooperating to disrupt that former front by pulling units away, it suggests nothing else other than a, "Let's break this game..." attitude.

[Egomane]

Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

"Let's break this game..." attitude.

Which for a beta, is absolutly acceptable.

And that you can not find two of those accounts on the forums, means nothing. Not every game account has a forum account. To create a forum account, a game account has to visit the forum at least once, at which point the forum account is created.

[Dimento Graven]

Sprouticus, on 21 January 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

I agree with you are disagree with you.


I think the faction should select the next planet to be attacked during ceasefire (voting system on website?) or some other mechanism should be used to limit the attack corridors and thus allow for alliances and such indirectly. I would love this in fact.


But until then, PGI has setup a system and using that system, seems fine.

So again, you'd be fine if me and 11 other people created brand new alt accounts, created a unit, and started attacking your factions holdings on an inactive front just for the sole purpose of causing your faction to pull units away from your active front so that my primary account's faction can have a numerical advantage and capture more territory from you.

See if you ignore me, we'd capture territory on your inactive front.

If you deal with me, you're pulling units from your active front, and potentially losing worlds on your active front.

I don't have to care either way because the accounts are 'throw away' and there's no personal investment in them one way or another.

[Alexander Steel]

Quote

So again, you'd be fine if me and 11 other people created brand new alt accounts, created a unit, and started attacking your factions holdings on an inactive front just for the sole purpose of causing your faction to pull units away from your active front so that my primary account's faction can have a numerical advantage and capture more territory from you.

Completely fine with it. You are playing the game which allows people to attack other factions. Now if nobody fights you, you are probably not having much fun, but yeah that's your issue not mine.

[Joe Mallad]

I won't name them but there are units that have 2 or more accounts and some will jump on under one faction while others jump on as the enemy faction and attack, defend against each other and throw battles to help flip planets faster and gain XP/C-bills.

[Dimento Graven]

Egomane, on 21 January 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

Which for a beta, is absolutly acceptable.

And that you can not find two of those accounts on the forums, means nothing. Not every game account has a forum account. To create a forum account, a game account has to visit the forum at least once, at which point the forum account is created.

I'm not sure that's true as it currently appears that you create your account through the forum software, both are created simultaneously.

However, it's a simple matter of testing, and I will do so.

Though, again, even if true it shows again that those two accounts were probably recently created and there was little to no investment in them. They were throw away accounts...

Alexander Steel, on 21 January 2015 - 07:59 AM, said:

Completely fine with it. You are playing the game which allows people to attack other factions. Now if nobody fights you, you are probably not having much fun, but yeah that's your issue not mine.

Fine, we'll practice zerg techniques until we've captured all your planets then.

See you on the battlefield...

[Lukoi Banacek]

So when EU units conduct attacks the self-described majority (who happen to be NA units) are against due to player driven ceasefires, thats not griefing, thats just internal dissent.

Or when a merc unit joins a faction because PGI is in charge of it, not the playerbase majority, and they attack targets against a player driven ceasefire, thats not griefing. Even if one of the merc unit's explicitly stated goal was to destablize a ceasefire in order to help their favorite faction.

But when players in presumably alternate accounts do it, its suddenly griefing?

[Sprouticus]

Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2015 - 07:56 AM, said:

So again, you'd be fine if me and 11 other people created brand new alt accounts, created a unit, and started attacking your factions holdings on an inactive front just for the sole purpose of causing your faction to pull units away from your active front so that my primary account's faction can have a numerical advantage and capture more territory from you.

See if you ignore me, we'd capture territory on your inactive front.

If you deal with me, you're pulling units from your active front, and potentially losing worlds on your active front.

I don't have to care either way because the accounts are 'throw away' and there's no personal investment in them one way or another.

Define 'fine'. Would I accept it. Yes. Honestly there is little recourse. What action would you like PGI to take? If they are not sandbagging, they are not violating the CoC. PGI could limit the planets I suppose. I would be totally fine with that as well.


Here is the issue though, if PGI DID come out against this, they would basically be saying that the worlds that are currently open but on 'allied' borders are not 'really' open. And what criteria would they use to determine if a team was going against 'the plan'?


I am 100% in favor of some kind of system for politics
I am 100% in favor of Steiner and FC being combined

But for now, this is a tempest in a teapot. Much bigger issue out there IMO

[Sprouticus]

Yoseful Mallad, on 21 January 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

I won't name them but there are units that have 2 or more accounts and some will jump on under one faction while others jump on as the enemy faction and attack, defend against each other and throw battles to help flip planets faster and gain XP/C-bills.

This would be sandbagging and is a huge violatin of the CoC. If you see this, report it to support. Or better yet, tweet Russ that it is occuring and send him a PM with the unit and player names.

Regardless, this is a different topic than the one in the OP's post. These alt accounts are NOT sandbagging, they are just not doing what they majority wants to do and has agreed on....different animal all together.

[Joe Mallad]

Sprouticus, on 21 January 2015 - 08:13 AM, said:

This would be sandbagging and is a huge violatin of the CoC. If you see this, report it to support. Or better yet, tweet Russ that it is occuring and send him a PM with the unit and player names.

Regardless, this is a different topic than the one in the OP's post. These alt accounts are NOT sandbagging, they are just not doing what they majority wants to do and has agreed on....different animal all together.

oh it was reported and being looked into. I just will not name any of them. PGI is handling it.

[Dimento Graven]

Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

...

However, it's a simple matter of testing, and I will do so.

...

From my initial testing it appears an account becomes 'available' on the forums once it's dropped into a match, and doesn't appear to have much to do with whether or not they've logged into the forums.

This makes sense to me. You see someone in a match who played well, you want to startup a dialog to try and recruit them, first thing you're going to try, besides talking to them in game, is hit the forums and send a message to their profile.

I will admit to the possibility that there is a delay from the time you verified your account to it being available to others to find that has to do with the forum user database being updated, more than whether or not a person has played.

Bascially my testing was the following:

1. Create a new email account.
2. Create a new MWO account using the new email account.
3. Searched for the new MWO account using my primary account.

Result, could not find.

4. Logged into the forum on the new MWO account.
5. Searched for the new MWO account using my primary account.

Result, could not find.

6. Logged into the MWO game on the new MWO account.
7. Searched for the new MWO account using my primary account.

Result, could not find.

8. Played a match on the new MWO account.
9. Searched for the new MWO account using my primary account.

Result, new MWO account found.

[Dimento Graven]

Sprouticus, on 21 January 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:

...

But for now, this is a tempest in a teapot. Much bigger issue out there IMO

Agreed there are bigger issues, for now.

However, once planets are actual tangible commodities with benefits for an entire faction, this sort of activity with what are virtually throwaway accounts is going to be extremely disruptive.

Due to the complexity of the issue PGI should start planning and designing mechanisms to address it NOW, rather than waiting until later.

[Egomane]

Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

Result, new MWO account found.

Now try it again, without logging into the forum with the alt account before you play a game.
Create the account -> play -> logout -> search
Never enter the forum with the new account.

I have tested this myself in the past and it functions just like I told you.

[Joe Mallad]

Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2015 - 08:27 AM, said:

Agreed there are bigger issues, for now.

However, once planets are actual tangible commodities with benefits for an entire faction, this sort of activity with what are virtually throwaway accounts is going to be extremely disruptive.

Due to the complexity of the issue PGI should start planning and designing mechanisms to address it NOW, rather than waiting until later.

the best way to handle this is to PM Russ personally or contact him on it on Twitter. Any issues or suggestions I have, I PM him or contact him on Twitter and he get back to me very quickly. These types of issues are those you would be best taking directly to him, if you want something to get done about it.

[circumvention]

I thought Davion and Marik were supposed to be all "advanced" ahead of the other factions in all kinds of protactics and pvp??? Clans have already been dealing with this practically since release, at the behest of IS alliances even. I'm highly pleased that someone has taken the initiative to finally break up the RP make-believe fedcom faction happening in this game, and that the IS is getting it's own medicine.

Go rogue Steiner unit!!!

PS there have been multiple threads already discussing this in the clan CW forums, so I highly doubt petitioning the devs on twitter (like you're their personal bros) is going to motivate some big change right away.

Edited by circumvention, 21 January 2015 - 08:37 AM.