480 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Jman5, on 21 January 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

I was in FRR before this and Merc units from Steiner did exactly this. FRR and Steiner had a ceasefire, but two big merc units that also fight for Ghost Bear started ghosting planets on our border. So we pulled off the GB front to fight them. Was it an inconvenience? Sure, but that's just how Community Warfare is set up.

If Steiner can't even be bothered to fight off one group then they deserve to lose the planet. Especially when they have two major merc units fighting for them this week. I mean what do you care if you gain a couple of free planets from Steiner?

This is silly, I don't know why I even bothered posting in this thread.

Was it Merc Units or players "PUGging"? Cause if there isn't enough Lawmen on and I wanna Go Lone Wolf, I have clicked on planets for House Kurita as a defender. Because the Steiner Clan boarder had 27 Inner Sphere Players. Just saying.

[WarZ]

As stated previously, there is no in game mechanic that enforces any faction politics. And hopefully, based on what I'm reading in this thread, there never is. You can have a "vision" and try to get other players on board. But you should NEVER have the power to force anybody to do anything as a player.

From a role playing stand point I think what is happening is perfectly in line. You apparently have "rebels" in your faction who disagree with the leadership and / or want to see some form of change. They are hiring merc units to fly the unit flags and carry out destabilizing attacks. If not rebels then its another house leading a clandestine operation to cause destabilization. Both very common within the factions. If not rebels or other houses, then you have whole parts of your government involved in the operation. I mean come on, this all sounds perfectly viable. In fact I'd say it is adding a nice bit of story to the clan wars.

Nobody in power thinks rebels are " in the right". But the rebels think they are right. Both sides think they are right. So there is conflict.

And honestly the fact they are "alt" accounts, only adds support to the rebel / clandestine sabotage angle.

In the end, it doesnt truly matter, and its adding flavor to CW experience. And if anything you should be able to role play the crap out of this. It sounds awesome in its own way.

[RG Notch]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 January 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

Except The computer is not playing Hanse Davion or else the Davion forces would not be able to attack the FedSuns closest Ally.

No actually the computer simply isn't playing him the way you would like. In fact that seems to be what this whole thread is about, people daring to play the game the way some other people who feel they are some how in charge want them to play. Who appointed these people to be in charge of anything? Where can I find out in game where these alliances are formed? If some folks want to play pretend politics that's fine but it only counts for other people who play with you.
You can ask PGI to enforce these rules and good luck with that, but sadly until then you'll have to deal with not actually being in charge of the rest of the player base as much as you would like.

[Egomane]

RG Notch, you are really confusing me recently.

As much as we collided with each other, while I was a moderator, recently I notice that I agree to a lot of your posts. Not all of them of course, we still have conflict potential, but still an awefull lot.

[Priest4357]

I really was thinking of not replying, but thought it would be fun afterall. I skipped about 6 pages of this because it appeared to be the same as the first 3.

Each "House Command" is doing their best to insert control to the best of their ability. There are more players NOT listening, then listening. You can figure that well over 50% of the player base isn't even on the forums. Therefore a cease fire is virtually impossible. I read these forums every 2-3 days, and I skim the interesting parts. Frankly I have no idea what my faction is up to, and seeing this makes me care even less.

Dimento - Nothing personal, but you really should take a step back and breathe.
a) It's only a game
It's supposed to be fun
c) Not everyone is going to listen, or follow the "House Rules"

Crying out for punishment of people that are just having fun is a bit extreme. Granted, they are taking away some of your fun, but in the end, you don't get to decide who plays and who doesn't. Imagine if the "House Command" could kick people out, or have them kicked... It would be chaos. Unit would be accused of something, and booted because JohnnyRedRocket said that his cousin saw Frankie Stenier (giggle) was actually talking to a Ghost Bear over a beer at a pub, therefore his whole unit are trators!!!! BURN THE WITCHES!!!!

Seriously, do the best you can. Let your Cease Fire mates know that it's not sanctioned, and you can't stop it. Then keep playing. That or go to the pub, and grab a beer, and talk to that cute redhead at the table by the jukebox. Never know, might find something better to do with that Short Ranged Missile your hiding.

[Dimento Graven]

RG Notch, on 21 January 2015 - 11:47 AM, said:

No actually the computer simply isn't playing him the way you would like. In fact that seems to be what this whole thread is about, people daring to play the game the way some other people who feel they are some how in charge want them to play. Who appointed these people to be in charge of anything? Where can I find out in game where these alliances are formed? If some folks want to play pretend politics that's fine but it only counts for other people who play with you.
You can ask PGI to enforce these rules and good luck with that, but sadly until then you'll have to deal with not actually being in charge of the rest of the player base as much as you would like.

That's a BS cop out, and again, you and the others that keep trying to bring up the, "playing how I wanna play" silliness are apparently by now intentionally missing the point.

These were BRAND NEW accounts, created for NO OTHER PURPOSE than to disrupt one faction to allow their preferred faction an unnatural advantage.

This wasn't some unit that decided they thought what the majority of other units had agreed to was wrong, or that they weren't playing the way they wanted to, this is a group of people who decided to utilize the only means their lack of skill and/or numbers would allow them to get an advantage, namely by pulling active enemy units to a different front.

If it had been a full known unit of people publicly announcing they weren't going along with the rest of the pack, fine, that's one thing, but what happened to Steiner was something completely different from that altogether.

[Joseph Mallan]

RG Notch, on 21 January 2015 - 11:47 AM, said:

No actually the computer simply isn't playing him the way you would like. In fact that seems to be what this whole thread is about, people daring to play the game the way some other people who feel they are some how in charge want them to play. Who appointed these people to be in charge of anything? Where can I find out in game where these alliances are formed? If some folks want to play pretend politics that's fine but it only counts for other people who play with you.
You can ask PGI to enforce these rules and good luck with that, but sadly until then you'll have to deal with not actually being in charge of the rest of the player base as much as you would like.

However use the same logic on those wanting to play the game. And if you want to play the game any way you want you should be ready to get a lecture from those in your faction who are trying to actually play the Can Invasion as this game was sold/Pitched to us as.

I just want to have an avenue that allows a House to deal with... rogue factions.

Egomane, on 21 January 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

RG Notch, you are really confusing me recently.

As much as we collided with each other, while I was a moderator, recently I notice that I agree to a lot of your posts. Not all of them of course, we still have conflict potential, but still an awefull lot.

I have the same relationship with Vassago. We butt heads a lot, but then there are times when we are on the same page.

[Martis Gradivus]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 January 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

I just want to have an avenue that allows a House to deal with... rogue factions.

Short of being able to kick them out of the faction, I can't see how you could find a solution that would work for everyone.

Ultimately though, how can 1 rogue unit cause sooo much QQ on the forums? Amazing.

[Joseph Mallan]

Anuerysm, on 21 January 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

I really was thinking of not replying, but thought it would be fun afterall. I skipped about 6 pages of this because it appeared to be the same as the first 3.

Each "House Command" is doing their best to insert control to the best of their ability. There are more players NOT listening, then listening. You can figure that well over 50% of the player base isn't even on the forums. Therefore a cease fire is virtually impossible. I read these forums every 2-3 days, and I skim the interesting parts. Frankly I have no idea what my faction is up to, and seeing this makes me care even less.

Dimento - Nothing personal, but you really should take a step back and breathe.
a) It's only a game
It's supposed to be fun
c) Not everyone is going to listen, or follow the "House Rules"

Crying out for punishment of people that are just having fun is a bit extreme. Granted, they are taking away some of your fun, but in the end, you don't get to decide who plays and who doesn't. Imagine if the "House Command" could kick people out, or have them kicked... It would be chaos. Unit would be accused of something, and booted because JohnnyRedRocket said that his cousin saw Frankie Stenier (giggle) was actually talking to a Ghost Bear over a beer at a pub, therefore his whole unit are trators!!!! BURN THE WITCHES!!!!

Seriously, do the best you can. Let your Cease Fire mates know that it's not sanctioned, and you can't stop it. Then keep playing. That or go to the pub, and grab a beer, and talk to that cute redhead at the table by the jukebox. Never know, might find something better to do with that Short Ranged Missile your hiding.

But Who's fun gets priority is the question? Those random groups trying to stir up the hornets, or the players wanting to coordinate and drive an actual path through a specific opponent? Both sides are kinda mutually opposed.

Martis Gradivus, on 21 January 2015 - 11:58 AM, said:

Short of being able to kick them out of the faction, I can't see how you could find a solution that would work for everyone.

Ultimately though, how can 1 rogue unit cause sooo much QQ on the forums? Amazing.

They are Mercs. Contracts can be cancelled. One can become two. Two become Four. Soon nobody is working cohesively.

[WarZ]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 January 2015 - 11:56 AM, said:

I just want to have an avenue that allows a House to deal with... rogue factions.

And what would you suggest that does not penalize a player at the "whim" of another player or group of players. Who in fact have no real say as to what another player can or cannot do ? Without giving players a power over other players that they have ZERO right to have.

You want something to assuage the affront to your "vision" of the game, all the while being completely "blind" to other peoples visions.

I dont think you should want, much less be able to do, anything.

[Alexander Steel]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 January 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

Except The computer is not playing Hanse Davion or else the Davion forces would not be able to attack the FedSuns closest Ally.

Nope, the computer is playing as this version of Hanse Davion. The one that saw the clan invasion not as a chance to work with long time enemies to unite for the greater good of the IS, but instead took it as a chance to drive his sword first into Kurita, and then finish the job the 4th succession started with Liao and Marik.

Somewhere along the line the Federated Commonwealth failed to become a thing and now considers the Steiners as just another enemy. The St. Ives went back to House Liao further proving that you can't even trust the son of your spy master. It's not the lore version of the IS.

In other words, he's not the Hanse Davion we deserve, but the one we need. ((To keep things interesting.))

Edited by Alexander Steel, 21 January 2015 - 12:03 PM.

[RG Notch]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 January 2015 - 11:56 AM, said:

However use the same logic on those wanting to play the game. And if you want to play the game any way you want you should be ready to get a lecture from those in your faction who are trying to actually play the Can Invasion as this game was sold/Pitched to us as.

I just want to have an avenue that allows a House to deal with... rogue factions.

As long as you are admitting you simply want other people to play the way you want, that's fine lecture all you want. As long as there is no in game sanction, which there should not be, lecture away. Just don't expect everyone in who plays the game to be bound ex parte by your agreements which only bind those present. PGI has said that players don't run the factions, so player made agreements should have no force outside those who choose to play within those player made agreements. So for now, deal with it.

Edited by RG Notch, 21 January 2015 - 12:08 PM.

[Harathan]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 21 January 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:

I literally only play CW to shoot robutt after work. I don't give a wooden nickel for the political ****** yanking fantasies of these grown men/women.

So play pub queue.

[Priest4357]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 January 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:

But Who's fun gets priority is the question? Those random groups trying to stir up the hornets, or the players wanting to coordinate and drive an actual path through a specific opponent? Both sides are kinda mutually opposed.


They are Mercs. Contracts can be cancelled. One can become two. Two become Four. Soon nobody is working cohesively.

You hit my thought like a nail on the head. Who's fun is more important. That quest is hard to really answer. Both sides have their point, and from there we have to see what PGI says.

[RG Notch]

Harathan, on 21 January 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

So play pub queue.

or what?

[Dimento Graven]

Anuerysm, on 21 January 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

Each "House Command" is doing their best to insert control to the best of their ability. There are more players NOT listening, then listening. You can figure that well over 50% of the player base isn't even on the forums. Therefore a cease fire is virtually impossible. I read these forums every 2-3 days, and I skim the interesting parts. Frankly I have no idea what my faction is up to, and seeing this makes me care even less.

Actually when it comes to community warfare, I have to disagree with your numbers, at least based on what I have personally seen while fighting for Davion, fighting against Liao, Kurita, and Marik, the organized units out number the true unaffiliated pug by something like 5 to 1 (if not more).

Yes, you run into 'pug' groups where individuals from known merc/house units randomly team up to play some CW, BUT, very rarely do you run into non-affiliated people, or unknown units.

My experience is the vast majority of people are playing in an organized fashion with some coordination at a higher level.

Quote

Dimento - Nothing personal, but you really should take a step back and breathe.
a) It's only a game
It's supposed to be fun
c) Not everyone is going to listen, or follow the "House Rules"

Crying out for punishment of people that are just having fun is a bit extreme. Granted, they are taking away some of your fun, but in the end, you don't get to decide who plays and who doesn't. Imagine if the "House Command" could kick people out, or have them kicked... It would be chaos. Unit would be accused of something, and booted because JohnnyRedRocket said that his cousin saw Frankie Stenier (giggle) was actually talking to a Ghost Bear over a beer at a pub, therefore his whole unit are trators!!!! BURN THE WITCHES!!!!

Seriously, do the best you can. Let your Cease Fire mates know that it's not sanctioned, and you can't stop it. Then keep playing. That or go to the pub, and grab a beer, and talk to that cute redhead at the table by the jukebox. Never know, might find something better to do with that Short Ranged Missile your hiding.

You misunderstand my level of 'angst' on the matter. Hence I started out this post actually asking if it was indeed a valid tactic.

I'm not actually angry or pissed off.

I am concerned.

Occasionally I get frustrated at some of the intentionally arrogantly ignorant attitudes and moronically over simplification of the issue and its eventual consequences when this game is more filled out.

Some of the arguments make me wonder how any of these people can function in real life.

There's written laws and unwritten social mores, and a lot of the arguments seem to indicate that these people think it's ok for them to drop trow and take a dump on the merry-go-round in the park, and seem to indicate that they'd somehow be justifiably indignant that a cop would stop them from doing so, "DON'T TELL ME HOW TO PLAY!"

Anyway I don't believe that this is a valid tactic, and so far no one has yet been able to provide any reasoning that validates creating new accounts, joining these accounts to a faction that is in direct opposition to your preferred, primary account's faction, and then using these day(s) old accounts to weaken the enemy of your preferred primary account's faction, all the while enjoying the anonymity the day(s) old throw away accounts afford you.

Zero consequences.

Call me a purist, but I see that as a problem.

If there were actual tangible in game consequences to such actions, my opinion would be different, as is, because these people are getting a free ride, I have a problem with it.

"It's only a game", "It's war this happens in war", "It's not real so it doesn't matter", "It's supposed to be a sim and this happens in real life", yadda yadda yadda

ALL of the arguments given for this being a VALID tactic are self serving and self conflicting and all of them will eventually fall flat when it starts happening those trying to justify it.

[Harathan]

RG Notch, on 21 January 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

PGI has said that players don't run the factions,

People keep trotting this out. In the latest Town Hall, Russ said he *does* want player driven factions.\

RG Notch, on 21 January 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

or what?

There isn't an "or what". Please don't behave like a child. If all someone wants to do is drop and shoot 'mechs, no problem. There's a mode for that. If someone wants to actually engage in Community Warfare, great, there's a mode for that too.

Screwing up other peoples games and then trotting out the juvenile "You can't tell US what to do!" is not endearing.

You wouldn't round up a bunch of your mates and invade a soccer pitch where a game was already in progress, right? So why do you think it's ok to do it in a video game?

Edited by Harathan, 21 January 2015 - 12:14 PM.

[Krivvan]

Almond Brown, on 21 January 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

Question? Do you think you can get a I.S. DropDeck, with all bells and whistles (Master, Modules) prepped in 30 days? Or will you play 4 Basics with whatever they can be fitted with?

Seems the bad guys in the OP's story did? That is some hardcore grinding right there.

Easily. It takes about 1-3 days to master 3 mechs and have 1 more mech with basics.

[Alexander Steel]

Anuerysm, on 21 January 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

You hit my thought like a nail on the head. Who's fun is more important. That quest is hard to really answer. Both sides have their point, and from there we have to see what PGI says.

Neither side is more important. Those who want to play Space Game of Thrones while they don their wizards caps and fight over treaties and blame the Starks for bringing their army out of the north and into Steiner territory while the White Walkers of Ghost Bear and Smoke Jag advance on the Summer Lands can do so.

People who just want to fight whoever is up for the day can do so as well.

[Joseph Mallan]

WarZ, on 21 January 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

And what would you suggest that does not penalize a player at the "whim" of another player or group of players. Who in fact have no real say as to what another player can or cannot do ? Without giving players a power over other players that they have ZERO right to have.

You want something to assuage the affront to your "vision" of the game, all the while being completely "blind" to other peoples visions.

I dont think you should want, much less be able to do, anything.

Me personally? I'm just a cog in the wheel And have no desire to be in command. I would be an Iron fisted DICtator. But I do think that since this is a BattleTech game Davions should not fight Steiners, FWL should not fight Fight Liao... Liao cannot afford to lose any more planets.

There needs to be a Commander/CEO I don't care what they are called but each House needs an actual direction for it's forces.