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Tentative Ghost Bear/wolf/merc Agreement


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#21 Ihasa

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 10:15 PM

View PostSeth, on 25 January 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

If MS and CI wants to fight CJF, I do not understand why they cannot simply join CW for a week. Seems a whole lot more reasonable and less cringy than all this prosaic butt kissing. For you RP types, if Nicholas Kerensky could see you guys wheeling and dealing right now, he would have some serious regrets about binding his genetic legacy to Clan Wolf.


Because we were told No an We Weren't Welcome at the start of CW.

#22 Caustic Canid

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 10:30 PM

View PostIhasa, on 25 January 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:


Because we were told No an We Weren't Welcome at the start of CW.


We can't stop you from joining tho.

You could join for a week, no one could do anything about it, and the majority of us wouldn't care one way or another.

#23 Gyrok

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 10:34 PM

View PostIhasa, on 25 January 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:


Because we were told No an We Weren't Welcome at the start of CW.


No you were not...

#24 Seth

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 10:35 PM

View PostIhasa, on 25 January 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

Because we were told No an We Weren't Welcome at the start of CW.


I would think that after having you and the guys in MS consistently knock them around as CGB and really kicking their teeth in as House Steiner, they would be thrilled to have you guys on their side now.

View PostCaustic Canid, on 25 January 2015 - 10:30 PM, said:


We can't stop you from joining tho.

You could join for a week, no one could do anything about it, and the majority of us wouldn't care one way or another.

View PostGyrok, on 25 January 2015 - 10:34 PM, said:


No you were not...


See, what did I tell you? That's so much simpler than all this diplomacy you guys are putting Clan Wolf through.

I will admit, I have been very surprised to see how well Clan Wolf has held back the MS/CI horde. Seems like when MS and CI put their mind to something, it tends to happen through sheer numbers.

Edited by Seth, 25 January 2015 - 10:38 PM.


#25 Gyrok

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 10:35 PM

View PostSeth, on 25 January 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

If MS and CI wants to fight CJF, I do not understand why they cannot simply join CW for a week. Seems a whole lot more reasonable and less cringy than all this prosaic butt kissing. For you RP types, if Nicholas Kerensky could see you guys wheeling and dealing right now, he would have some serious regrets about binding his genetic legacy to Clan Wolf.


Amazingly, I am agreeing entirely with this...

#26 Mordin Ashe

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 10:56 PM

This is rather complicated. Many (some would argue most) issues stem from arrogance among some CW officers. That is by the way the reason why MS and CI are with CGB and not CW, even though we weren't their first choice. You were, and the fact that you were capable of shunning such enthusiasts is beyond me.

How about more humility? Most of CW are great people, but you have individuals in lead who make a lot of bad blood. That G-person above me is a shining example. As long as such people hold power among CW, I doubt these issues can be resolved. Postponed for a week or two perhaps, but not resolved.

This comes from someone who appreciates CW greatly. Most of you are great players, you have more noobs than we do (which is to be expected, you were the "good guys" posterboys in novels) but they learn quite fast. Fighting with you is always a pleasure, the best battles I had were against CW (one on saturday comes to mind, as soon as you opened the gate both teams had the same idea to immediately push, resulting in the most brutal brawl I've seen in 2.5y of MWO). Many of your players also support the game a lot (never seen so many Clan reinforce Mechs except when fighting with CW) and so on.
But until the most conflicting people disappear, I doubt things can be resolved.

#27 Caustic Canid

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 11:17 PM

View PostMordin Ashe, on 25 January 2015 - 10:56 PM, said:

This is rather complicated. Many (some would argue most) issues stem from arrogance among some CW officers. That is by the way the reason why MS and CI are with CGB and not CW, even though we weren't their first choice. You were, and the fact that you were capable of shunning such enthusiasts is beyond me.

How about more humility? Most of CW are great people, but you have individuals in lead who make a lot of bad blood. That G-person above me is a shining example. As long as such people hold power among CW, I doubt these issues can be resolved. Postponed for a week or two perhaps, but not resolved.

This comes from someone who appreciates CW greatly. Most of you are great players, you have more noobs than we do (which is to be expected, you were the "good guys" posterboys in novels) but they learn quite fast. Fighting with you is always a pleasure, the best battles I had were against CW (one on saturday comes to mind, as soon as you opened the gate both teams had the same idea to immediately push, resulting in the most brutal brawl I've seen in 2.5y of MWO). Many of your players also support the game a lot (never seen so many Clan reinforce Mechs except when fighting with CW) and so on.
But until the most conflicting people disappear, I doubt things can be resolved.


It's not really that complicated. There is literally nothing anyone could do to stop them. Even if there was someone within CW who had a problem with it, the mercs could have just laughed at them and carried about their business.

In fact, if someone objected to the 'mercs as loudly as is claimed, I would have figured they would have joined Wolf for the sole purpose of putting names on planets, just to rub it in the face of those who said "no".

#28 Shaitan Kerensky

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 11:21 PM

View PostCaustic Canid, on 25 January 2015 - 11:17 PM, said:

...In fact, if someone objected to the 'mercs as loudly as is claimed, I would have figured they would have joined Wolf for the sole purpose of putting names on planets, just to rub it in the face of those who said "no".


This right here. End the fighting. Join wolf and take back the planets you took earlier and no more. Then your tags are on it, you come out as respectable, and we (as in all clans) can push deeper into IS

Edited by Shaitan Kerensky, 25 January 2015 - 11:22 PM.


#29 Aresye

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 11:25 PM

Don't forget MercStar is comprised of more than one unit. One of those units doesn't want to join the wolves for lore-based reasons, so MS as a whole couldn't join Wolf without risking one of their sub-units possibly leaving and/or not participating.

I'm pretty open to the idea of opening up a corridor and then sealing off the back end once established. Before we were hesitant because we didn't know how logistics would work out, but it's one of those, "We'll cross that bridge later," type moments. We may not even have to worry about that anyway if we close the gap behind them.

As for strong personality types, bad leadership, etc. There's only one thing to do, and that is to not support them. They can scream and kick all they want, but the overall purpose of this meeting was not to plot and scheme. The purpose of this meeting was to figure out how we can work together to give our more casual players fewer bad experiences at fighting top tier teams every drop, whilst simultaneously helping the overabundance of players in CGB to do more than just drop against Kurita turrets.

The way I see it, the trash talking, backstabbing, etc. has done nothing but create a hostile atmosphere between units, stalling forward progress, and forcing players to engage higher skilled teams nearly non-stop, which is burning people out fast. Lore can take a backseat when the health of CW and enjoyable games is at stake, and if seeding some worlds to assist some teams in finding more games in exchange for more forward progress, higher participation, and possibly having a new ally, I'll take it.

What we had today was a meeting about leadership that cared about the players in the factions over individual egos, and we will continue in whichever direction is beneficial to the health of CW and the players that participate in it.

#30 Mordin Ashe

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 11:49 PM

Well, truth is that opening the "passage corridor" from CGB to CJF is right now easier than ever, since it can be done in two or three days, perhaps even faster if the attack algorithm is friendly. Before it would be a week-long project with uncertain results because of difficulties in coordination.

#31 LastKhan

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 11:59 PM

View PostMordin Ashe, on 25 January 2015 - 11:49 PM, said:

Well, truth is that opening the "passage corridor" from CGB to CJF is right now easier than ever, since it can be done in two or three days, perhaps even faster if the attack algorithm is friendly. Before it would be a week-long project with uncertain results because of difficulties in coordination.



Is like no CJF unit reading these? lol. Yeah open a passage to fight the falcons, im surprised CJF hasnt just full on attack CW to prevent that.

#32 Karl Marlow

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 12:04 AM

View PostBlueduck, on 25 January 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:


Merc/Bear Issues: Kurita is not doing much to defend themselves which results in turret drops. Part of the reason wolf attacks have been happening is a pure lack of anything better to do.



Good to hear Kuritas Operation: Possum is working.

#33 Seth

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 12:07 AM

I'm just a guy on the outside looking in, and I'm not privy to the secret negotiations held by the leaders of your respective factions, but this appears to be so much like Stockholm syndrome that I have felt compelled to try bring that outside perspective to you. Last week, I was really happy to see a resurgent Clan Wolf retake control of your invasion corridor. In fact, I was so excited for you guys, I couldn't help but remark on it. Maybe it was because GK returned to Clan Wolf, but it seemed you guys had really found your backbone again. To see you guys kowtowing to what is essentially the will of the same two mercenary groups who effectively cut the amount of territory you controlled in half the week before that makes the lore enthusiast in me a sad falcon and the normal guy in me wonder if you aren't still a faction with a broken will.

I understand that MS and CI are looking forward to expanding their holdings, but are quickly bored after overwhelming all opposition. So an alternative idea might be, and this might blow your mind so grab your hats, instead of both MS and CI switching to the same faction at the same time, they could instead stagger when they switch between Steiner and CGB. One goes Steiner while the other goes CGB. That way they aren't competing with each other for battles on a given border's planets and still get to plant their tags all over the place and use that beardrivingflamingcar.gif.

View PostLastKhan, on 25 January 2015 - 11:59 PM, said:

Is like no CJF unit reading these? lol. Yeah open a passage to fight the falcons, im surprised CJF hasnt just full on attack CW to prevent that.


I've been following this, and I know other Falcons have as well. This doesn't really pertain to us, though, and I'm commenting here only because I feel so bad for Clan Wolf as a faction. We're actually very excited to be making forward progress towards Terra over the past couple of weeks. Our faction isn't so big that we can simply overwhelm all defenders. We're quite lucky when we have the numbers to drive into FRR.

#34 Mordin Ashe

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 12:15 AM

View PostLastKhan, on 25 January 2015 - 11:59 PM, said:

Is like no CJF unit reading these? lol. Yeah open a passage to fight the falcons, im surprised CJF hasnt just full on attack CW to prevent that.

I am not saying that we should do it, nor that it is a good idea to begin with. But such ideas were made public some time ago and we can speculate about them.

As regards me, I think MS and CI should help us push FRR and Draconis Combine as hard as possible during their stay, but they have their own agenda. I respect that and wish them well in whatever it is they choose to pursue. And if they choose to trade punches with Lords, fine by me.

View PostSeth, on 26 January 2015 - 12:07 AM, said:

This doesn't really pertain to us, though, and I'm commenting here only because I feel so bad for Clan Wolf as a faction. We're actually very excited to be making forward progress towards Terra over the past couple of weeks.


Respect to you for what you are doing. Fighting Steiner is a difficult job noone really wants to do. You get dirty, you have to listen to whines about how much would it cost them for you to just leave, all your bondsman are soaked in champaigne and make the whole drop ship stink... Ungrateful job, but you are coping with it well :-)

Edited by Mordin Ashe, 26 January 2015 - 12:21 AM.


#35 Demiurge

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 12:20 AM

Well ... all of you work at PGI of cource. And surelly you know next planet opened to capture. So you can guaranty that you will open corridor, not take all Wolf worlds right ?

We wish and we do it. That i see in this thread as Mercstar position. We don't join Wolf beacose bla bla bla ... We don't join FRR beacose bla bla bla.

So Wolfes, ready to be a domestics dog for a MercStar ? Ready do what they wish ? Ready to standing on its hind legs ? Looks like majority almost ready.

Use you brain. If you make "deal" one time you make same "deal" all the time. Next time mercstar say you attack falkons and you do that ? Only beacose they wish that ?

In the year 480BC the huge army of persian attack Greek beacose persian king wish to attack. Like Mercstar now. They has a hordes of warriors and greatly outnumbered the Greek and Spartan. All of you surelly know what happen next. The 300 Spartans held the whole army and give time to all other Greek. In the end Greek states won that war.

You can choose now like Spartans before. What you preffer. Free will of you own action or doing what mercstar say to do.

Choose.

#36 War Dogz

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 12:24 AM

I am impress that Wolf is even debating about there space being cut in 2. So what happens after CGB get to fight The green birds are they going to sit back or maybe just maybe make a Big green line through the middle of Wolf space to payback the bear.?

Yup great way to get new units and players to join the Wolf pack.

#37 Mordin Ashe

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 12:25 AM

View PostDemiurge, on 26 January 2015 - 12:20 AM, said:

In the year 480BC the huge army of persian attack Greek beacose persian king wish to attack. Like Mercstar now. They has a hordes of warriors and greatly outnumbered the Greek and Spartan. All of you surelly know what happen next. The 300 Spartans held the whole army and give time to all other Greek. In the end Greek states won that war.

Yikes, propaganda... And an ancient greek one at that.

Lets not go there please :-) Or someone might realise that numbers of CI or MS are surprisingly close to those 300 you previously mentioned and start viewing themselves as heroic fighters against an empire of evil.

Edited by Mordin Ashe, 26 January 2015 - 12:26 AM.


#38 Asatur

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 12:36 AM

Guys you are saying that we should go just to the south that bears and wolves do not have to fight, because it is not canon.
And then you offer mercenaries to join the wolves that they can attack the Falcons. It's a canon?! *facepalm*

We are in peace with falcons and never fought with them and will not fight in future. Because they playing as clanners but not mercenaries or politicians. Your choice: 1) no mercenaries, peace with falcons and the way the clans or 2) peace with bears and mercenaries, lots of politics, lie and playing like spheroids

#39 Caustic Canid

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 12:39 AM

View PostAsatur, on 26 January 2015 - 12:36 AM, said:

Guys you are saying that we should go just to the south that bears and wolves do not have to fight, because it is not canon.
And then you offer mercenaries to join the wolves that they can attack the Falcons. It's a canon?! *facepalm*

We are in peace with falcons and never fought with them and will not fight in future. Because they playing as clanners but not mercenaries or politicians. Your choice: 1) no mercenaries, peace with falcons and the way the clans or 2) peace with bears and mercenaries, lots of politics, lie and playing like spheroids


Sounds like we get the short end of the stick either way.

#40 Mordin Ashe

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 12:42 AM

View PostCaustic Canid, on 26 January 2015 - 12:39 AM, said:

Sounds like we get the short end of the stick either way.

With people like Gyrok in charge that could always be the case.





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