388 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

I happen to be one of those solo players who does CW- and I recognize it as -not- being ideal in the least for soloers.

It functions best by far as a group queue with solo players filling the occasional gaps between said groups, but too many soloers leads to a force that is equal in size but clearly inferior in unit integrity. I've seen it before with many, MANY players- one quality that is common to folks doing poorly is the inability to grasp more than the immediate area around them. They tunnel-vision, pick a target and blaze away without realizing that their opponents are systematically disabling one 'Mech at a time together while they're spreading fire across an entire unit's worth of armor.

Units tend to call targets, to focus on specific parts of the battlefield, and help to keep that tunnel vision at bay. (Good ones, anyway- I've seen "units" that share the same tag but have zero communication, making them fall into the realm of PUG-destroyable). Even in smaller chunks (hey, lances!) that's huge.

By comparison, the average solo queue player seems to break down somewhere along the range of having more than 4 possible targets in sight at once. Transfer that to the larger CW battlefield (or even the group public queue) and you see that collapse happen in a hurry. That soloers also tend to be the more likely to be bad builders (no peer review) or worse, unequipped (bringing random Trials in to fill drop decks) means they also tend to be more likely to sink a CW game, both by being outside the coherency of a unit on comms and being stuck with -1 or -2 versions of the same 'Mechs their opponents use. When one team is bringing, say Dragon-1N with their chaingun AC/5's vs. the other's trial -5Ns with explody-Gauss and much slower large laser mounts...well, it adds up.

Lack of coherency. Lack of capacity. Combine these, and it means large numbers of soloers in CW queues suffer a debilitating lack of ability vs. a real group. This will not change, no matter what goes into CW as long as it's a 12-man system alone. Smaller numbers of players increase the ability of a solo player to handle all the variables, smaller drop decks will increase the odds that a given player can bring a full set of customized (although we can't fix bad designs, you ditzes mounting a single LRM 5 on your Jenners) and optimized 'Mechs to the field.

Until then, CW is not for the faint-at-heart soloer, and not for large numbers of soloers dropping together at once.

[Mystere]

Triordinant, on 16 February 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

If you and others like you are enjoying CW so much you should keep playing CW (and only CW if possible).

I feel slighted, extremely.

Edited by Mystere, 16 February 2015 - 11:20 PM.

[PappySmurf]

YAWNNNNNNN MWO-PGI and CW reminds me of this--------------------------------------->



http://www.bing.com/...B1879BD4FFD5023

Edited by PappySmurf, 17 February 2015 - 08:47 AM.

[PappySmurf]

I remember---------------->





WHY did I not take the blue pill?

[BaronVonH]

"Yes but even in a unit it is hard to get 12 people together a lot of the times. Heck lately no one wants to do more than one or two CW drops especially when you wait 20m.
A full lance is much more doable but is only 1/3 of the team. I for one would find it interesting to try a 4v4 or 8v8 match so that smaller groups feel like they can make more of a difference."

I totally agree with this statement. My unit has 16 members, mostly local to my region, and we like to play, but we don't usually all play at once. Mostly playing in 4-6 man drops. We would LOVE to join CW, but we don't like getting stomped because we don't wanna play straight metadecks. My assaults can only take one usable mech... I run 2 TDR 9s, and feel like a damn cheater, but I still don't have fun.... Make smaller matches, with smaller objectives, and give us a purpose. We are FRR loyalists with a permanent contract, and we WANT to help, but we do more harm than good when we drop on a defense, and get killed. Better off letting the elites do the lifting.... 4v4 would be great, and would bring us in. The VOIP will help, some, but it won't stop zerg rushes and spawn camping.... I bought the Wrath Pack, anyway, so I am in for the long haul here, but I really wanna see something enjoyable for my dollar....

[Kjudoon]

PappySmurf, on 17 February 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

I remember---------------->

Pillar 1 - Mech Warfare: 98% Success
Pillar 2 - Information Warfare: 65% Success
Pillar 3 - Role Warfare 20% success
Pillar 4 - Community Warfare: 33% success

What's stopping Pillar 2? Small maps, no goals outside of pew pew dakka dakka or info to use in game. The ECM/Guidance issue is a monster unto itself

What's stopping most of this for Pillar 3? Small maps, arena mentality

What's stopping Pillar 4? Phase 3 Logistics has not been even created and see Pillar 3 and 2.

Pillar 1 is fine and is just fine tuning and adding mechs and maps.

[Jon Gotham]

Triordinant, on 16 February 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

There will always be exceptions to the general rule. If you and others like you are enjoying CW so much you should keep playing CW (and only CW if possible). The last thing I want is for CW to disappear. If that happens, the big organized competitive Units will once again end up in the public group queue to prey on small casual groups and players trying to introduce their friends, siblings and coworkers to MWO by pairing up. CW is the best thing to happen for casual players because it acts as a separate queue for elite Units and competitive players like yourself.

Whenever a soloist complains about CW or demands CW changes to suit them (meaning they're obviously not having a grand time), I advise them to stay out of CW (at least for now) because 1: PGI said it's not meant for soloists and 2: it's still Beta. Is there a problem with that?

Fairly sensible post apart from italic sections and offensive stuff in bold italic....
They won't end up in public queues, the'll end up in group queues. The casual players will still be "protected" from teamwork and effort in the solo queue. What might happen is these guys LEAVE and take their considerable (very likely) spending habits with them. Now that Is a bad thing for the game.

Oh and I as a mainly solo casual player, DO try to keep playing Cw only as I find the solo queue to be toxic to fun in the extreme. I really enjoy iCw, even the losing. I like hopping onto random Ts servers and meeting new people.
What the latest game shift has done though is taken my spending away, and the spending of around 90% of my friends too. that also is not a good sign...
Question is, what to do about it? Sacrifice group players, throw them away? Bad, bad move. Throw the solo guys away? (arguable they do that to themselves after a fashion) also a bad, bad move....what then to do?

Edited by kamiko kross, 17 February 2015 - 10:45 AM.

[H00L1GAN]

name me ANY multiplayer game where a team of pick ups without a godlike player has a chance against an organized team with a plan for the map...

it does not happen in sports, gaming, bowling, on the job, anywhere where skill and teamwork matter.

This is my .02 as a new player.

I've been playing slightly less than a month, I wanted this game to play CW, I installed it to play CW, yet I have not qued for a CW match yet at all. Do you know why?

Because I came on here and read that it would be a less than ideal experience without my OWN drop deck. Not only would i get farmed but I would be an anchor to my team. Drag them down. So I've spent 3 weeks improving my piloting skill, tactical choices, and building a deck that will actually contribute to my team and start me off in a better state than a trial deck with no modules, and no understanding of the basics of combat or tactical choices..

ITEM LEVEL.

have you played a blizzard game? maybe Diablo 3? there are games that have gear level (or something similar) restrictions as to what you can do. For example, you can't play Diablo on Torment 5 until you've beaten 4, 3, 2, 1.....

you don't have the right gear, you will get pounded.

how about WoW? you cant (or couldn't, its been a few years) you can't que a heroic dungeon without an item level that says you wont get pounded flat immediately and truck the other 4 people on your team.

Today, we get voip. by tomorrow, my deck will be done, i'm just farming cbills for radar dep and 360 retention.

i just looked. I've been playing 21 days. (on premium time) I have 3 mastered TBRs, one mastered SCR and two elited SCRs (just need the last module slot on both and pinpoint on one of them.)

Later this week I will get on TS, and drop with some falcons, with a legit deck, and not totally sucking.

Just like every other game, you get beat while you learn to not suck. A drop deck level would keep people from trucking CW and their own opinion of CW, the same way a physical keeps my old ass from fighting in a MMA match and getting wrecked.

see you on the battlefield!

servers just came back up

im not saying that a skilled pilot can't drop in a trial and contribute, i'm just saying everything else being equal THIS IS MECHWARRIOR, it's 51% PILOTING AND 49% MECHLAB. it always has been.

[N0MAD]

H00L1GAN, on 17 February 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

This is my .02 as a new player.

so nice going, how many hours a day do you play?

[Kjudoon]

Took me one month of playing 4-10 hours a day to realize how little I knew and another 4 months of the same (being injured sucks) with a unit before I STARTED to get competent.


This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

[Molossian Dog]

Kjudoon, on 17 February 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

Pillar 1 - Mech Warfare: 98% Success...

As long as physics are absent from this game I wouldn´t go above 65% in this regard.

Sticky terrain, terrain hitboxes extending beyond the graphics, inability to step over 1-2m high objects (or crush them beneath those giant metal feet) complete randomness in what objects are solid and whcih ones are not and WORST of all mechs bumping into each other teleporting back and forth...

Let´s not talk about the crappy servers and therefore unpredictable hit reg...

I think you are being more than generous.

[Kjudoon]

Temperament and other aspects of the wonders that makes me me is that I am generous like that.

[1DeathWalkingTerror1]

I only drop solo, and win with PUG drops (and the odd full lance) all the time vs IS PRE-MADES. Especially since many IS pre-mades were using 2 early light rushes. Last weekend one night dropping solo won 7 out of 9 matches, go figure.

Considering CW is in beta stage, I'm highly impressed so far.

[Molossian Dog]

Kjudoon, on 18 February 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:

Temperament and other aspects of the wonders that makes me me is that I am generous like that.

In fact I am very generous to call your above evaluation "generous."

Edited by Molossian Dog, 18 February 2015 - 04:55 AM.

[Yokaiko]

1DeathWalkingTerror1, on 18 February 2015 - 04:39 AM, said:

I only drop solo, and win with PUG drops (and the odd full lance) all the time vs IS PRE-MADES. Especially since many IS pre-mades were using 2 early light rushes. Last weekend one night dropping solo won 7 out of 9 matches, go figure.

Considering CW is in beta stage, I'm highly impressed so far.

CSJ is an anomaly, Smoke jag pugs are beasts, its harder for everyone else.

[Jon Gotham]

H00L1GAN, on 17 February 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

name me ANY multiplayer game where a team of pick ups without a godlike player has a chance against an organized team with a plan for the map...

it does not happen in sports, gaming, bowling, on the job, anywhere where skill and teamwork matter.

This is my .02 as a new player.

I've been playing slightly less than a month, I wanted this game to play CW, I installed it to play CW, yet I have not qued for a CW match yet at all. Do you know why?

Because I came on here and read that it would be a less than ideal experience without my OWN drop deck. Not only would i get farmed but I would be an anchor to my team. Drag them down. So I've spent 3 weeks improving my piloting skill, tactical choices, and building a deck that will actually contribute to my team and start me off in a better state than a trial deck with no modules, and no understanding of the basics of combat or tactical choices..

ITEM LEVEL.

have you played a blizzard game? maybe Diablo 3? there are games that have gear level (or something similar) restrictions as to what you can do. For example, you can't play Diablo on Torment 5 until you've beaten 4, 3, 2, 1.....

you don't have the right gear, you will get pounded.

how about WoW? you cant (or couldn't, its been a few years) you can't que a heroic dungeon without an item level that says you wont get pounded flat immediately and truck the other 4 people on your team.

Today, we get voip. by tomorrow, my deck will be done, i'm just farming cbills for radar dep and 360 retention.

i just looked. I've been playing 21 days. (on premium time) I have 3 mastered TBRs, one mastered SCR and two elited SCRs (just need the last module slot on both and pinpoint on one of them.)

Later this week I will get on TS, and drop with some falcons, with a legit deck, and not totally sucking.

Just like every other game, you get beat while you learn to not suck. A drop deck level would keep people from trucking CW and their own opinion of CW, the same way a physical keeps my old ass from fighting in a MMA match and getting wrecked.

see you on the battlefield!

servers just came back up

im not saying that a skilled pilot can't drop in a trial and contribute, i'm just saying everything else being equal THIS IS MECHWARRIOR, it's 51% PILOTING AND 49% MECHLAB. it always has been.

You are EXACTLY the sort of player we need MORE of. a VERY good attitude.
Why can't more of the militant solos be like this guy?

[Zolaz]

Duszanovsky, on 26 January 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

My first post here.

I was pretty enthusiastic about CW launching, it really appeared to be a long time missing element of MWO experience. I've invested a lot of time and c-bills for making an optimal clan drop deck, that suits my playstyle and that contributes to winning battles.

It was fun at the beginning, matches seemed to vary, there were some different scenarios of how the battle could go.

Thing is, CW has become nightmarish. It is now dominated by IS 12-man stompers, focused on overusing PPC TDR-9 builds. It's simply ridiculous. Every game the scenario for 12 mans against randoms makes it unplayable. On the "cold" map any random team attacking is just sniped from a distance and killed by organized push, up to the point of spawn killing. Really? Is this the way you want to almost every match to be played out in 12-man against random scenario? This was to be intended CW experience for casual CW players? You're on a best way to even more shrink the player base for CW.

How can someone not notice that TDR-9 is completely OP when used in 12 man scenario? It's just a long range damage spamming mode that almost cannot be countered by casuals. Especially on the map which allows you to see the spawn point from a veryyyyyyy far distance, and create a firing line that chokes enemy reinforcements to death.

Either PGI does something with it (splitting queues for teams and pugs/rebalances decks) or I'll just simply resign from ANY CW activity. It will slowly but surely make CW a mode for 12 man try-hards with meta-builds.

Maybe this is what it was supposed to be. But then....why enabling solo players drop into matches?

This is just utter crap. Sorry.

How did they let you out of the sybko? Well, at least we know one gummi bear who wont be remembered.

[Mirkk Defwode]

H00L1GAN, on 17 February 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

name me ANY multiplayer game where a team of pick ups without a godlike player has a chance against an organized team with a plan for the map...
...

Battlefield, Red Orchestra, Call of Duty, Mechwarrior 4...

Ah back in the days of Mech4 I remember going into hosted servers when the intent to take on "stacked" teams. They were doing their warm ups and I just wanted practice in general.

H00L1GAN, on 17 February 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

ITEM LEVEL.

have you played a blizzard game? maybe Diablo 3? there are games that have gear level (or something similar) restrictions as to what you can do. For example, you can't play Diablo on Torment 5 until you've beaten 4, 3, 2, 1.....

you don't have the right gear, you will get pounded.

how about WoW? you cant (or couldn't, its been a few years) you can't que a heroic dungeon without an item level that says you wont get pounded flat immediately and truck the other 4 people on your team.

Not really a clean comparison, well sorta. If the mechs were balanced in this then it wouldn't really count because we wouldn't have this "tiered" system which pushes people to use these very specific builds and setups. The same goes for having the whole Module add-ons and expendable items like coolant flush and air strikes. Though I'm not entirely against those, the airstrikes I mean, I just wish they were contingent on you having other things equipped like the command module...

Blizzard RPGs are actually built on a popcorn reward system which is why you have the rapid turn over of equipment. The whole idea is to constantly give the user more items so they can choose to use the new stuff or toss it away. In either case they are constantly seeing the items drop with a chance that something will be better than what they have. It isn't a gating mechanic until the very end of those experiences and even then it's a poor gating mechanic that drives bad gameplay. Look at WoW as example of you can't do "X" without "X" gearscore, Regardless of player skill.

Looking at the titles I put above as examples of where you can have random people go against organized groups and succeed those are skill based and driven games with often good balance. Albeit they all have their own flaws as well. But I'll note that all of those examples are less rigid in their overall design for encounters.

Hell in Red Orchestra 2 I've seen pick up teams push organized ones to a timeout loss (means holding the capture area without opposition even entering it for over 5 minutes) Maybe it was luck, or maybe it was just the right mix of players at the right time.

[PappySmurf]

Mirkk {Ah back in the days of Mech4 I remember going into hosted servers when the intent to take on "stacked" teams. They were doing their warm ups and I just wanted practice in general.}

MechWarrior4 was billed as the worst of the MechWarrior IP series but in fact it was the best in many ways.Mechwarrior2 was almost pure simulation and cannon and great PVE storylines and expansions but lacked graphic and sound quality of mechwarrior3 or mechwarrior4. Mechwarrior3 was a mix of MW2 and what MW4 would become great game and expansions but terrible net code.

The Devs were told a lie about the MSN gamming zone and in-game servers for Mechwarrior4 by all parties involved in consultation of a new MechWarrior game that became MWO. MechWarrior4 was great far better than my MWO experience has ever been I can only assume the devs were Part of Mektek or NBT because MWO resembles the NHUA=(NO HEAT UNLIMITED AMMO) games played on the Mektek servers.

Most players hated NHUA and left MechWarrior4 because this game mode was so idiotic and the remaining players were overall toxic and did not represent the MechWarrior community by and large. MechWarrior4 was so diverse fun and entertaining with 15+ game modes hundreds of maps many varied leagues it was the bomb.

MW:0 is overall a very limited shallow experience compared to MechWarrio2-3-4 and expansions I can see why so many new players uninstall and never return.

Edited by PappySmurf, 18 February 2015 - 10:43 AM.

[uebersoldat]

PappySmurf, on 18 February 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

Mirkk {Ah back in the days of Mech4 I remember going into hosted servers when the intent to take on "stacked" teams. They were doing their warm ups and I just wanted practice in general.}

MechWarrior4 was billed as the worst of the MechWarrior IP series but in fact it was the best in many ways.Mechwarrior2 was almost pure simulation and cannon and great PVE storylines and expansions but lacked graphic and sound quality of mechwarrior3 or mechwarrior4. Mechwarrior3 was a mix of MW2 and what MW4 would become great game and expansions but terrible net code.

The Devs were told a lie about the MSN gamming zone and in-game servers for Mechwarrior4 by all parties involved in consultation of a new MechWarrior game that became MWO. MechWarrior4 was great far better than my MWO experience has ever been I can only assume the devs were Part of Mektek or NBT because MWO resembles the NHUA=(NO HEAT UNLIMITED AMMO) games played on the Mektek servers.

Most players hated NHUA and left MechWarrior4 because this game mode was so idiotic and the remaining players were overall toxic and did not represent the MechWarrior community by and large. MechWarrior4 was so diverse fun and entertaining with 15+ game modes hundreds of maps many varied leagues it was the bomb.

MW:0 is overall a very limited shallow experience compared to MechWarrio2-3-4 and expansions I can see why so many new players uninstall and never return.

I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at here... I've played both (actually I played MW2 back in the 90's as well) and MWO is clearly superior in almost every way to MW4 with the exception of content. (Destructible buildings, collisions and vehicles) Mechanics and netcode-wise I have no idea how you can put MW4 above that of MWO. It just doesn't make sense. MWO is very solid and you feel each stomp and each weapon fire/hit.

EDIT: As a matter of fact I'm playing through Vengeance and Mercs again right now. Playing last night I noticed the movement and feel of the 'mechs are markedly less 'realistic' than MWO, at least inside the cockpit.

Edited by uebersoldat, 18 February 2015 - 10:53 AM.