217 replies to this topic

[Roadkill]

Aerik Lornes, on 27 January 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

Faster-firing would be totally within the lore. Though that's not how PGI implemented them.

Sort of.

An "AC/10" is a class of weapon that does 10 damage in 10 seconds. That can be one slug that does 10 damage, or 10 slugs that do 1 damage each and somehow magically all hit the same location.

So while yes, speeding up the rate of fire would be well within the lore, doing so would require that each shot do less damage in order to maintain the "AC/10"-ness of the weapon. Otherwise, doubling the rate of fire of an AC/10 would turn it into an AC/20 by the lore.

What people are proposing as quirks would change the Urbie's AC/10 into something else... roughly a high velocity AC/15 if you go with the +50% cooldown and +50% velocity that people have been tossing around.

(And yes, I'm completely aware that a "MWO turn" is not the same as a "TT turn". All of this requires a certain amount of translation to the appropriate environment.)

[Xythius]

SpeedingBus, on 27 January 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

Oh gee who would of guessed PGI couldn't balance a mech that is a complete joke and in my opinion shouldn't of been made in first place because its just another cash grab.

Guess it's a good thing your opinion is irrelevent then - no matter how you choose to justify it.

[El Bandito]

Roadkill, on 27 January 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

Sort of.

An "AC/10" is a class of weapon that does 10 damage in 10 seconds. That can be one slug that does 10 damage, or 10 slugs that do 1 damage each and somehow magically all hit the same location.

So while yes, speeding up the rate of fire would be well within the lore, doing so would require that each shot do less damage in order to maintain the "AC/10"-ness of the weapon. Otherwise, doubling the rate of fire of an AC/10 would turn it into an AC/20 by the lore.

What people are proposing as quirks would change the Urbie's AC/10 into something else... roughly a high velocity AC/15 if you go with the +50% cooldown and +50% velocity that people have been tossing around.

(And yes, I'm completely aware that a "MWO turn" is not the same as a "TT turn". All of this requires a certain amount of translation to the appropriate environment.)

By TT standards, the HBK-4G now has AC100. Therefore, I see no issue with Urbies receiving big quirks to its AC10--as long as its speed is kept slooow.

Walk slowly, and carry a big gun.

^ This should be an Urbie motto.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 January 2015 - 02:36 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

El Bandito, on 27 January 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

By TT standards, the HBK-4G now has AC100. Therefore, I see no issue with Urbies receiving big quirks to its AC10--as long as its speed is kept slooow.

Walk slowly, and carry a big gun.

^ This should be an Urbie motto.

and every other mech has an ac50..... and doubled armor.

So, in relation to all the other change,s the HBK-4G now operates approximately like it SHOULD in TT.

It hits hard, very hard, but is slow and not very well armored. Before, because of Doubled armor, AC20s were only feared when boated, and hardly respected. Because they were really hitting like an AC10.

Now each shot is still an ac10. But it can reload fast enough to make up some of the difference. But it isn't an "ac100" because unlike the TT ac20, that 100 damage is not all in one area.

Also, it doesn't fire the ac20 in 2 seconds or less. (Fully skilled and with mk V module it's every 2.32 second) So it's an "ac80".

[DivideByZer0]

I'm all for building out mechs. Customization is a big part of the fun in this game for many people.

That being said, I think 210 is just too big. That puts top speed at 110 ish

Here's a build I just threw together (endo steel, FF)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...05189a099fc1b91

Canon speed is 38kph. I don't mind if people want to upgrade, I could even see 70-80 kph.
But now this is a 110kph mech with 360° torso rotation...

My personal opinion is that this breaks the spirit of the mech simply because of the top speed. I don't mind the ac10, or quirks to it, most of my argument is simply that the Urbanmech has just never been able to go this fast.

Could it be possible that we might see a -10% speed quirk on this mech? Maybe with a -5% (or -10%) ac10 cooldown?

Edited by DivideByZer0, 27 January 2015 - 02:47 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

FupDup, on 26 January 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

A 125 engine gives it a top speed of 74.2 kph. That's basically a Warhawk, but without Warhawk armor or Warhawk firepower. You'd have to gigaquirk the living bejesus out of it to K-town and back at least several times to make up for that. It's 30 tons at the end of the day, with all the pros/cons that come with that.

No, Tier 5 quirks wouldn't be good enough to accomplish that, not even remotely good enough. You'd need at least Tier 8 or worse quirks. It would basically have to be a repeat of the Thunderbolt 9S, but even more extreme to the point of sheer hilarity. We'd have to literally make it have the same durability and damage output as most heavies if it had the speed of most heavies. I'm talking about massive things like +100% cooldown for certain guns and at least +30 armor points per body part (not 30% more armor, 30 points more armor).

Are you okay with gigaquirks like that?

(change for variant specific weapon)
AC20 Range +300%
AC20 Velocity +100%

I dunno, sounds good to me. Quirks would make it hilarious.

[Aerik Lornes]

It would have been kind of cool to have there be more than one kind* of AC per class in MWO. One that fired one shot per press, another that was like an actual "autocannon" and perhaps something in the middle. All three of these are technically ACs per TT since they were effects based. As for hitting in one location, I'm assuming (yes) that the idea was not to melt the barrels by holding down the trigger, ergo, short controlled bursts, though that's just MY rationalization.

And for all that I'm a TT Grognard, I'd have been OK with a more physics/realistic rendition of Battletech that took lore as canon (no pun intended) over TT rules. Where there wouldn't be an AC/5 there would be an Armstrong J11, a Defiance Type J, a Deleon 5, a GM Whirlwind, a Mydron C, and a Pontiac Light for autocannons. PGI gets hit with the TT thing because THEY said they were using the TT rules as a basis.

*I'd have liked to see more kinds of Lasers/PPCs too.

[HARDKOR]

Yeah, I'd love to see lore cannons and would gladly collect all sorts of different ones instead of just owning 20 ac5's and 20 ac20's. More flavor is more awesome.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

An 170 would be my cap of choice for the Urbanmech, combined with some serious defensive quirks (both armor and structure boosts for all torso hitboxes). It is the top rating for its weight for both XL and STD engine types. It keeps the mech slow for its weight (101 with Speed Tweak). It also allows for a little bit of a reduction in external heat sinks, which can be a bit deal for some build options.

[Roadkill]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 January 2015 - 02:44 PM, said:

Also, it doesn't fire the ac20 in 2 seconds or less. (Fully skilled and with mk V module it's every 2.32 second) So it's an "ac80".

Right. And translated into MWO terms, it's "only" an AC/35 because MWO essentially has a 4 second "turn", at least as far as the AC/20 is concerned.

Note: I'm not opposed to AC/10 quirks for the Urbie. I'm just pointing out that radically quirking the AC/10 is no more appropriate or "Urbie-like" than quirking its speed. They're both quirks that change the Mech in pretty significant ways. I suspect that even a 110 or 120 kph Urbie would need pretty significant quirks.

[pwnface]

Honestly they should just make urbanmechs hard capped at 80kph but increase the acceleration and deceleration to be faster than a locust. Combined with a small model it would be pretty difficult to hit at range if a pilot was constantly changing directions but would still be "slow" and unable to outrun larger mechs closing on it.

Edited by pwnface, 27 January 2015 - 03:14 PM.

[Myke Pantera]

Just out of curiosity, those of you who are in favour of an engine cap of like 180-200 or higher, how would you like to equip your Urbie?

Put a XL180 into the UrbanMech, 2xJJ, 3xDHS (mandatory) and you are left with 13.5t for weaponry but also only when you strip one arm and most parts of the cockpit armor of it. So the biggest AC you can squeeze onto it is an (U)AC/5 which isn't all that good without a second one. AC/2 isn't what it once was, so that leaves us with Machine Guns...

The XL 180 has a de-facto weight of 8.5t incl HS. The XL 100 of 6.5t. So small engine caps won't solve the problem of us not being able to reasonably equip this mech with LBXs, AC/10s and AC/20s and at least some small backup lasers. The only solution I see is the removal of minimum heatsinks requirement, as it would allow us to use those big ACs which is the whole point of this mech, isn't it?

Given it's hardpoints, high engine caps also won't make it good unless they are >135kph high, which again would make the UrbanMech compete with mechs like the Firestarter or Jenner where it would neither be unique nor any more competitive...

But again, i didn't fund it up to now (because i really need to know how they quirk, engine cap it first) so my oppinion seems negligible.

[Roadkill]

Myke Pantera, on 27 January 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

Just out of curiosity, those of you who are in favour of an engine cap of like 180-200 or higher, how would you like to equip your Urbie?

At the speedy end, 2 Large Lasers, 4 MG, 1 ton ammo, and put the other 0.5 ton back into armor.

As you've demonstrated, though, allowing a higher engine cap doesn't impact the quirks it will need to be viable. Give it AC/10 quirks and it will have to be slow to use them. Or it can go faster and not get the benefit of its quirks.

There's really no reason to cap its speed below 100 kph like some people are asking. Something in the 110-120 kph range just gives you more options, but the right quirks could still make the "right" option one of the slower ones.

[HARDKOR]

25% ballistic + 25% AC10 quirk or bust

[Lucian Nostra]

I like how pgi is willing to toss their construction rules to the curb to make a joke mech like the urbie more viable, but screw those clan mechs that need endo or engine reductions, those are the clan construction rules

[FupDup]

Myke Pantera, on 27 January 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

Just out of curiosity, those of you who are in favour of an engine cap of like 180-200 or higher, how would you like to equip your Urbie?

Put a XL180 into the UrbanMech, 2xJJ, 3xDHS (mandatory) and you are left with 13.5t for weaponry but also only when you strip one arm and most parts of the cockpit armor of it. So the biggest AC you can squeeze onto it is an (U)AC/5 which isn't all that good without a second one. AC/2 isn't what it once was, so that leaves us with Machine Guns...

The XL 180 has a de-facto weight of 8.5t incl HS. The XL 100 of 6.5t. So small engine caps won't solve the problem of us not being able to reasonably equip this mech with LBXs, AC/10s and AC/20s and at least some small backup lasers. The only solution I see is the removal of minimum heatsinks requirement, as it would allow us to use those big ACs which is the whole point of this mech, isn't it?

Given it's hardpoints, high engine caps also won't make it good unless they are >135kph high, which again would make the UrbanMech compete with mechs like the Firestarter or Jenner where it would neither be unique nor any more competitive...

But again, i didn't fund it up to now (because i really need to know how they quirk, engine cap it first) so my oppinion seems negligible.

2 ERLL + 4 MGs
AC/5 + 4 SL
AC/2 + 4 ML
2 ERLL + 2 ML (a bit risky though due to all in one arm)
ERPPC + 3 MGs + some other type of lasers?

Those are all I can think of for now.

Lucian Nostra, on 27 January 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

I like how pgi is willing to toss their construction rules to the curb to make a joke mech like the urbie more viable, but screw those clan mechs that need endo or engine reductions, those are the clan construction rules

I like how PGI wants to cling on to making sub-250 engines allocate heatsinks externally instead of having all 10 already inside of the engine so that they're 2.0 Trudubs and don't waste critical slots.

[El Bandito]

-snip-

Edited by El Bandito, 27 January 2015 - 08:10 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Roland, on 27 January 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

No, because I'm not ********.. I certainly am not going to PAY MONEY to drive an urbie.

Ultimately, like I said, none of this matters. It's just a cash grab mech designed to exploit nostalgia. But it's not even going to be an urbie. It's gonna be a generic gun bag that kind of looks like an urbie.

Even has MWO culture and the dankest of dank epic maymays all over it. They know their old man audience pretty well.

[Apocryph0n]

ITT: People that think other people buy the Urbie to have a topnotch competitive mech.

Guys: The Urbie is about the lols. If you do not want to spend money for the lulz, then don't. It's not like you are forced to drive Urbies from now on.

[Tombstoner]

Apocryph0n, on 28 January 2015 - 05:07 AM, said:

ITT: People that think other people buy the Urbie to have a topnotch competitive mech.

Guys: The Urbie is about the lols. If you do not want to spend money for the lulz, then don't. It's not like you are forced to drive Urbies from now on.

When its released just think about all the QQ over how the side with the most urbies is an instant loss. The resulting disconnects of displeasure.

Personally if the urbie has the best acceleration in the game but a low top speed its not going to be DOA. i wouldn't mind a 25% damage reduction because of its round ish shape. then it would function was well as any non missile based medium.