217 replies to this topic

[Apocryph0n]

Tombstoner, on 28 January 2015 - 05:17 AM, said:

When its released just think about all the QQ over how the side with the most urbies is an instant loss. The resulting disconnects of displeasure.

Personally if the urbie has the best acceleration in the game but a low top speed its not going to be DOA. i wouldn't mind a 25% damage reduction because of its round ish shape. then it would function was well as any non missile based medium.

I will totally grind for that first 1k damage round in an Urbie with the DC's

On Reddit I was like "well, the urbie is not "viable" it's for the funs" and people instantly were like "I never want you on my team" and told me that I should stick to private lobbies with the Urbie. (Since I am considering myself as a fairly decent Light and Medium Pilot I guess I will even outdamage them in a stock UR-60, so it would probably not be my loss if I didn't play with them)

Like they were literally telling me that I was not supposed to have fun in this game I spent metric craploads of cash on. (e.g. telling me how to play MY game )

Edited by Apocryph0n, 28 January 2015 - 05:28 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Haters gonna hate, trolls gonna troll.

Play the Urbie, have fun, and tell anyone who gives you crap to go jump in a lake (nice way to put it ).

Good chance none of the players giving you crap on Reddit are as l337 as they think they are in their own head anyway lol.

[Apocryph0n]

Probably

Anyways, Urbie will be a blast and I am okay with Russ trying to make it viable for general use. The 32kph guys will still get more tons (how much was it? -4, -6tons for the STD60?) of room to put Dakka in for their negative tonnage engine and you can actually play it like a medium mech with a bigger engine then. Adder-Speed is still pretty slow

Edited by Apocryph0n, 28 January 2015 - 05:50 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Well, I'm not sure how far PGI will take the quirks.

I would still expect the help being minimal, that way any additional help will be a pleasant surprise.

I just don't want people to think it will be the next Firestarter. They might be disappointed. If done right and how I expect it to go, it will probably be a middle of the road light performer.

I also expect this mech to have a high learning curve. Slow and vulnerable in the open, yet potentially deadly with a good A/C 10 and 360° torso rotation. Even if the mech has a larger engine, it will never be a fast light.

If I had to guess, I would say the #1 key to playing well in this mech is positioning. Planning ahead to engage the enemy on your terms.

This is why this mech will have a big learning curve and may become frustrating for some pilots. I still believe that there will be pilots that will be able to hold a 1.5 kdr average in this mech.

P.S. I predict Alpine will truly pose a challenge for an Urbanmech pilot. Everything that helps an Urbie is in short supply on Alpine.

[Widowmaker1981]

Is it an Urbanmech if it doesnt carry a big AC?

Because this is the best i can come up with running an AC10 and an XL 180, and it does not look even a little bit viable (and cannot jump.)

If it needs the 180 engine cap to be viable, to me that says it needs to not use a big AC either, since you cannot realistically fit both.

So Urbies are just going to be slower embers with dustbins on their heads? Since i cant see a viable build that uses an XL180+ that isnt just ML/MPL + MGs

[Bishop Steiner]

Is it a Catapult K2 if it carries Gauss or AC10/20 or UACs, instead of PPCs? Yup.

[Widowmaker1981]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 January 2015 - 06:19 AM, said:

Is it a Catapult K2 if it carries Gauss or AC10/20 or UACs, instead of PPCs? Yup.

Fair point i guess..

I for one bow down to our new trash can shaped ember-on-prozac..overlords minions.

edit: might see a few with (U)AC5 + MLs which isnt actually too far off being an urbanmech i guess...

edit2: HMMMM. Piggy might even not piss me off with this, if they make all the quirks really heavy on AC20/AC10s then they kinda please both crowds, since you simply cannot run an AC10+ with a big engine anyway. I.e. play it fast like its not meant to be and get no/smaller weapon quirks, or play it slow and use the quirks.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 28 January 2015 - 06:31 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Widowmaker1981, on 28 January 2015 - 06:23 AM, said:

Fair point i guess..

I for one bow down to our new trash can shaped ember-on-prozac..overlords minions.

edit: might see a few with (U)AC5 + MLs which isnt actually too far off being an urbanmech i guess...

edit2: HMMMM. Piggy might even not piss me off with this, if they make all the quirks really heavy on AC20/AC10s then they kinda please both crowds, since you simply cannot run an AC10+ with a big engine anyway. I.e. play it fast like its not meant to be and get no/smaller weapon quirks, or play it slow and use the quirks.

Kind of the point I've been making. The mechs that got their quirks re-tasked in wave 2, got them reassigned to stock weapons (even if some were mysteriously bypassed on that). Weapon quirks on Urbie, will reasonably, be to the AC10/20/LB-10X. And maybe small/small pulse laser. So those looking to run support fast paper cut builds, well be better served elsewhere

[Widowmaker1981]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 January 2015 - 06:38 AM, said:

Kind of the point I've been making. The mechs that got their quirks re-tasked in wave 2, got them reassigned to stock weapons (even if some were mysteriously bypassed on that). Weapon quirks on Urbie, will reasonably, be to the AC10/20/LB-10X. And maybe small/small pulse laser. So those looking to run support fast paper cut builds, well be better served elsewhere

One thing i would not like to see is much in the way of generic energy quirks, but im hopeful on that front, since as you say the stock loadouts are very AC focused (and generic AC quirks apply very poorly to MGs in general)

[uebersoldat]

Yeah, I don't understand why you guys have to have a competitive 'mech. This is supposed to be a slow mech. The pre-orders were not based on people wanting to be top point earner for the team. I pre-ordered mine to have a great piece of Battletech culture, flaws and all.

[Myke Pantera]

FupDup, on 27 January 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

2 ERLL + 4 MGs
AC/5 + 4 SL
AC/2 + 4 ML
2 ERLL + 2 ML (a bit risky though due to all in one arm)
ERPPC + 3 MGs + some other type of lasers?

See thats kind of my point... I have no problem if people wonna run the UrbanMech like a Raven or Panther as long as it's not too fast (> 120kph), but i really really wonna see the Urbie being able to use AC/10s, LBX10s with JJ and medium mech speeds (around 90-100kph) and i currently don't see that happening. I'd like to see the Urbie being able to carry AC/10s like no other IS light can, and ever will. AC/5 could still be decent fun though...

[FupDup]

Myke Pantera, on 28 January 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

See thats kind of my point... I have no problem if people wonna run the UrbanMech like a Raven or Panther as long as it's not too fast (> 120kph), but i really really wonna see the Urbie being able to use AC/10s, LBX10s with JJ and medium mech speeds (around 90-100kph) and i currently don't see that happening. I'd like to see the Urbie being able to carry AC/10s like no other IS light can, and ever will. AC/5 could still be decent fun though...

That's honestly a tonnage problem that can't really be solved with ignoring some more Corerules™. Ballistics just eat up a lot of tonnage while missiles/energy are very easily portable on mechs with low spare tonnage. The Urbs is 30 tons, which gives it the same max weight constraints as other light mechs...which makes mounting a ballistic gun almost half its weight rather difficult. It's sad but not much can be done about it.

The idea to give a +100% ammo quirk might help with that at least a little bit. Fun goodies like XL Gyro, XXL engine, and Small Cockpits might be usable in the future to try to cheese in more gear (but the XL Gyro and Small Cockpit would require MWO's engine system to change entirely, because currently we lump in gyro + cockpit weight into the engine).

Better light ballistics might also be helpful. WTB Light AC/2 and Light AC/5.

Edited by FupDup, 28 January 2015 - 07:17 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Myke Pantera, on 28 January 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

See thats kind of my point... I have no problem if people wonna run the UrbanMech like a Raven or Panther as long as it's not too fast (> 120kph), but i really really wonna see the Urbie being able to use AC/10s, LBX10s with JJ and medium mech speeds (around 90-100kph) and i currently don't see that happening. I'd like to see the Urbie being able to carry AC/10s like no other IS light can, and ever will. AC/5 could still be decent fun though...

Best i can do on that front

Doesnt seem especially viable, maybe with some badass AC10 quirks

[Variant1]

Guys what i think OP is trying to say is that the reason for releasing the urban mech is that many want to see it because of what it is and its iconic mech in TT not as a competitive mech. But i guess they could increase the engine rating, but that would should be a huge penalty in terms of tonnage for weps. Overall this mech was known to be slow and have lots of armor being only good in urban environments hence "Urbi", im not saying im against increasing the engine rating but that kinda defeats the purpose of having the urban mech if it can be like a regular light.

Just my thoughts, no offence to anyone if they get offended.

[Myke Pantera]

FupDup, on 28 January 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

That's honestly a tonnage problem that can't really be solved with ignoring some more Corerules™. Ballistics just eat up a lot of tonnage while missiles/energy are very easily portable on mechs with low spare tonnage. The Urbs is 30 tons, which gives it the same max weight constraints as other light mechs...which makes mounting a ballistic gun almost half its weight rather difficult. It's sad but not much can be done about it.

The idea to give a +100% ammo quirk might help with that at least a little bit. Fun goodies like XL Gyro, XXL engine, and Small Cockpits might be usable in the future to try to cheese in more gear (but the XL Gyro and Small Cockpit would require MWO's engine system to change entirely, because currently we lump in gyro + cockpit weight into the engine).

Better light ballistics might also be helpful. WTB Light AC/2 and Light AC/5.

It is true, and the only thing i can think of in order to allow big ACs is to lower the min HS requirement for this mech. But that would definitely break the Corerules™. A lighers AC/10 that can only be mounted on the Urbie would also work and break everything thats holy in this game... I don't know...

Widowmaker1981, on 28 January 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

Best i can do on that front

Doesnt seem especially viable, maybe with some badass AC10 quirks

Actually not tooo bad, but no backup weapons and only 30 shots for your main weapon... Problem is that even downgrading the engine to silly values helps because the engines don't weight much at that low end anyways...

Edited by Myke Pantera, 28 January 2015 - 07:38 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Most 'Viable' AC focused build i can come up with

Viable in inverted commas because its really not, unless very VERY quirked.

[Wintersdark]

Widowmaker1981, on 28 January 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

Most 'Viable' AC focused build i can come up with

Viable in inverted commas because its really not, unless very VERY quirked.

Viable and optimal are very different words. Viable gets very, very misused.

One thing that annoys me about a lot of the urbie discussion is that there's some belief that running at 110ish kph makes it run like "the other lights". Since the other lights its in comparison with run at 150-170 kph, that's hardly the case. Even at 110kph, the urbie is dead slow for an IS light. Sure, the Kitfox clan side is also at that speed, but its got a ClanXL for sturdiness, good upgrades, lightweight clan weapons and ECM... (And its still considered generally poor, largely due to the speed).

Having the larger engine cap just allows people build options. The biggest point is in allowing players the ability to cram more DHS in engine... Our screwed up heat system pretty much requires this. Being below a 175 rated engine would really hurt Urbie build options, not because of speed but because you'd need *four* out of engine DHS eating 12 slots and thus only get 6 TrueDubs.

[Greenjulius]

I think 180-210 is fine. I'm personally hoping for 200 or 210 so we can get by with only 2 extra DHS onboard if we want. 124kh isn't fast. 107kph definitely isn't.

I'm sure it will be quirked more than any other mech. It has to.

Comparing it to the Kitfox is irrelevant, because the Kitfox has:

1.) Clan weapons. Lighter, longer ranged, higher damage. Well suited for sneaky medium to long range engagements.
2.) Versatile omnipods. Energy spam, support items, MG spam if desired, etc.
3.) ECM and 3xAMS. Urbie will never get ECM or 3xAMS. Kind of a big deal for a slow mech.
4.) Clan XL and integrated Case. Yet more advantages the Urbie will never get.

Comparing the two is a lost cause. I love the Kitfox. I'm curious to see what we can do with the Urbie.

Edited by Greenjulius, 28 January 2015 - 08:05 AM.